Which Micro Lens for DX?

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Archive 2009 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #1 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

dj dunzie wrote:
Andre I've always said that as far as teles go, the 300/f4 AF-S is one of the better bargains available in Nikon mount. It's sharp wide open, which means that even though it isn't the fastest around at f4, it is USABLE at f4 unlike some other long lenses that need stopped down a little. IN fact it's very sharp wide open, and you'll find a million uses for it.

The Siggy 150 is also extremely versatile in many of the same ways, but adds crazy close focus macro abilities. For bugs and the sort, I doubt you'll find a more perfect companion since it has a little reach and gives you more working distance.

I'm with Doug though, if you really want light, grab that new 85 and tell us if the MTF results are the real deal.

Thanks DJ. We've always thought alike on lenses ... only my budget is smaller than yours ... you lucky dog!

Oct 22, 2009 at 03:51 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #2 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

dougjk wrote:
As for TCs on the 85, why not? I expect it wouldn't autofocus, but this is macro.

TonyBeach wrote:

Using a TC doesn't increase magnification, only working distance; and it degrades image quality.

One of my favorite lenses is my Nikkor 85 PC-micro, which can be had for about $1000.

Tony,

At min focus, TCs increase mag for micro lenses. But if you keep the mag constant (say 1:1) than the working distance for that mag increases. This is why TCs on micro lenses can be such a HUGE boon ... if you can live with the degraded image quality.

Ahhh, the 85 PC-micro. What a beautiful lens that would be to have ... not a bad option over the 85VR except the size/weight issue (and cost).... aaaarg! More choices.

Oct 22, 2009 at 03:54 PM

brinnonbob
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p.2 #3 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Yet another vote for the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 Macro! And be sure to get the Sigma 1.4X TC to go along with it. Actual working distance is approx. 8 inches in front of the lens. Plenty of space for flash use without lens shadows.

Oct 23, 2009 at 01:11 AM

TonyBeach
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p.2 #4 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:

Tony,

At min focus, TCs increase mag for micro lenses. But if you keep the mag constant (say 1:1) than the working distance for that mag increases. This is why TCs on micro lenses can be such a HUGE boon ... if you can live with the degraded image quality.

Have you done this? My experience was that after I filed the tab off of my TC14eII and tested it on my 85/2.8 PC-micro; I could not increase the magnification at MFD, instead MFD simply increased 40%.

Ahhh, the 85 PC-micro. What a beautiful lens that would be to have ... not a bad option over the 85VR except the size/weight issue (and cost).... aaaarg! More choices.

No AF either, but for what I use it for I don't miss AF. I'm waiting for an adapter to arrive from Hong Kong that will allow me to try out the 85 PC-micro on my A850. One thing that I'm looking forward to is the exceptional sharpness at smaller apertures with this lens and how that will work on a 24 MP sensor, that and the wider FOV than I get with my D300.

Oct 23, 2009 at 05:30 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #5 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

TonyBeach wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:

Tony,

At min focus, TCs increase mag for micro lenses. But if you keep the mag constant (say 1:1) than the working distance for that mag increases. This is why TCs on micro lenses can be such a HUGE boon ... if you can live with the degraded image quality.

Have you done this? My experience was that I filed the tab off of my TC14eII and tested it on my 85/2.8 PC-micro; I could not increase the magnification at MFD, instead MFD simply increased 40%.

Ahhh, the 85 PC-micro. What a beautiful lens that would be to have ... not a bad option over the 85VR except the size/weight issue (and cost).... aaaarg! More choices.

No AF either, but for what I use it for I don't miss AF. I'm waiting for an adapter to arrive from Hong Kong that will allow me to try out the 85 PC-micro on my A850. One thing that I'm looking forward to is the exceptional sharpness at smaller apertures with this lens and how that will work on a 24 MP sensor, that and the wider FOV than I get with my D300.

Hmmm, don't know about the 85mm PC, but the way I describe it is how it works on the 105VR. Also, from basic geometric optics it should work that way on all lens systems unless there is some other compensation going on (85mm PC ??)

Ooooo! Sounds like you have some fun coming your way with your 85PC. MF on a micro lens that is dedicated to the purpose is no big deal to me as all my micro work is MF. Do post some pictures you take with that beauty.

Oct 23, 2009 at 05:41 AM

TonyBeach
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p.2 #6 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:
Hmmm, don't know about the 85mm PC, but the way I describe it is how it works on the 105VR. Also, from basic geometric optics it should work that way on all lens systems unless there is some other compensation going on (85mm PC ??)

I'm not sure what I did wrong before, but you are right, it works that way on my 85 PC-micro too. However (my slight face-saving consolation), I am getting more detail without the 1.4x TC than with it -- this might be a focusing issue or perhaps something else perhaps that can be addressed, but from a practical standpoint I am not seeing any obvious reason to use the TC other than possibly changing perspective. I would note though that the couple of times I've attempted using the 1.4x TC to change perspective on the PC-micro, the results have been miserable.

Oct 23, 2009 at 07:34 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #7 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

TonyBeach wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:
Hmmm, don't know about the 85mm PC, but the way I describe it is how it works on the 105VR. Also, from basic geometric optics it should work that way on all lens systems unless there is some other compensation going on (85mm PC ??)

I'm not sure what I did wrong before, but you are right, it works that way on my 85 PC-micro too. However (my slight face-saving consolation), I am getting more detail without the 1.4x TC than with it -- this might be a focusing issue or perhaps something else perhaps that can be addressed, but from a practical standpoint I am not seeing any obvious reason to use the TC other than possibly changing perspective. I would note though that the couple of times I've attempted using the 1.4x TC to change perspective on the PC-micro, the results have been miserable.

Ah, good to know it works the same. Thanks for the follow-up. I'm not surprised that even the 1.4TC degrades image quality from the 85PC ... the lens is so darn sharp to begin with just about anything other than tubes will. My only reason for wanting to use TCs with a micro lens is to get adjustible working distance. It almost souns like the trade-off is not worth it and I should forget about that aspect.

Oct 23, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.2 #8 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:

Ah, good to know it works the same. Thanks for the follow-up. I'm not surprised that even the 1.4TC degrades image quality from the 85PC ... the lens is so darn sharp to begin with just about anything other than tubes will. My only reason for wanting to use TCs with a micro lens is to get adjustible working distance. It almost souns like the trade-off is not worth it and I should forget about that aspect.

That's what I use TC's for, with my macro lenses. Whether or not you should forget about it, depends on what you do with your macro shots. Mine are not usually destined to large prints and the vast majority of my macros are simply for my enjoyment. The exceptions to that would be flower shots, which are usually done with the 70-180 micro and I don't use a TC with that lens.

The PC lenses are 1:2, IIRC. I've not tried a TC on my PC lenses, but a TC should take them to or beyond 1:1 capability, I think. That kind of magnification requires the best technique and support system, to get the best shots.

I use a 1.4 TC on the sigma 180 macro quite frequently, less so on my tamron 90. Of course, if I didn't have the 180, I'd use the TC on the tamron much more frequently. My support system and technique are not the best and it's a struggle to make real gains in resolution at the highest magnification levels. My focus rail is pretty mickey mouse, for example.... Mostly I use a TC to gain working distance, without going to or beyond 1:1 magnification, where it works fine, within the limitations of my skills and support system.

I've also used the 1.4 TC on my 100-300 f/4, when shooting closeups. Of course, that doesn't get me anywhere near 1:1 magnification, but it works fine. I've been wanting to try some tubes on the 100-300, but haven't gotten around to it. I have the kenko tubes, which aren't real good for stacking. I now have the pb-4 bellows, which I'll try to use with the 100-300 next year. My outdoor macro season is just about over for this year.

Oct 23, 2009 at 02:20 PM

sworth
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p.2 #9 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

The Tokina 100 2.8 is justas good as the 105. The only advantage the Nikon has is VR.

Oct 23, 2009 at 07:01 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #10 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Kerry Pierce wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:

Ah, good to know it works the same. Thanks for the follow-up. I'm not surprised that even the 1.4TC degrades image quality from the 85PC ... the lens is so darn sharp to begin with just about anything other than tubes will. My only reason for wanting to use TCs with a micro lens is to get adjustible working distance. It almost souns like the trade-off is not worth it and I should forget about that aspect.

That's what I use TC's for, with my macro lenses. Whether or not you should forget about it, depends on what you do with your macro shots. Mine are not usually destined to large prints and the vast majority of my macros are simply for my enjoyment. The exceptions to that would be flower shots, which are usually done with the 70-180 micro and I don't use a TC with that lens.

The PC lenses are 1:2, IIRC. I've not tried a TC on my PC lenses, but a TC should take them to or beyond 1:1 capability, I think. That kind of magnification requires the best technique and support system, to get the best shots.

I use a 1.4 TC on the sigma 180 macro quite frequently, less so on my tamron 90. Of course, if I didn't have the 180, I'd use the TC on the tamron much more frequently. My support system and technique are not the best and it's a struggle to make real gains in resolution at the highest magnification levels. My focus rail is pretty mickey mouse, for example.... Mostly I use a TC to gain working distance, without going to or beyond 1:1 magnification, where it works fine, within the limitations of my skills and support system.

I've also used the 1.4 TC on my 100-300 f/4, when shooting closeups. Of course, that doesn't get me anywhere near 1:1 magnification, but it works fine. I've been wanting to try some tubes on the 100-300, but haven't gotten around to it. I have the kenko tubes, which aren't real good for stacking. I now have the pb-4 bellows, which I'll try to use with the 100-300 next year. My outdoor macro season is just about over for this year.

Kerry,

Thanks for the input. Lots for me to think about here, especially given some of the great close-ups I've see you post. I have had good luck with TC's for work well away from 1:1, but not nearly as much macro experience. I have used a crazy combo of TC, tubes and a 500D on my 70-200 to get 2:1 reproduction with a 13" working distance from the 500D! I was surprised by the quality of it, but talk about a setup that takes forever to set up.

I want to simplify my life without adding too much bulk or cost. In an ideal world I just get a 105VR, 85PC, 70-180 micro and a 200mm micro and be done with!

That would mean as many micro lenses as I have regular lenses .... ah, to have $$ and muscles.

Thanks again for the post. I'm thinking on it.

Cheers,
Andre

Oct 23, 2009 at 09:54 PM

MichaelErlewin
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p.2 #11 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

My two cents:
I have almost all the good macro lenses that Nikon makes, including the 60mm 2.8, 105 VR, the 200 f/4 ED-IF, 55mm f/3.5 Macro, Micro 70-180 Zoom, bellows 105, 85 PC, and others, plus all the teleconverters, tubes, close-up lenses, etc. I have used the above lenses (and others) extensively and all are good in certain situations.

However, even with all of these Nikon lenses, the very best macro lens I have EVER used by far is the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 125 f/2/5. It is expensive and hard to find, but for nature macro work, it is sharper beyond any of my Nikons and fast too. Even now, each shot with it amazes me.

Of course, it depends on what camera body you are using these. Mostly I use the D700 and D3x, and the D3x is demanding enough that not all of the above lenses work well on it, like the Micro 70-180, for example. With the D3x FX camera, it is also worthwhile to play with some of the 300mm-range Nikons (like the 300mm AF-S f/4 which close-focuses to about five feet) with the 1.7 teleconverter and then crop the shot. This also produces some great macros.

Oct 24, 2009 at 05:57 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.2 #12 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:
I want to simplify my life without adding too much bulk or cost. In an ideal world I just get a 105VR, 85PC, 70-180 micro and a 200mm micro and be done with!

That would mean as many micro lenses as I have regular lenses .... ah, to have $$ and muscles.

FWIW, if I could only have one macro lens, it would probably be the 150 sigma. It's a very good value, IMO.

Oct 25, 2009 at 02:33 AM

brinnonbob
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p.2 #13 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

One more vote for the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 macro. Also think about getting the Sigma 1.4X TC to use with it if you want to extend its range with hardly any degradation in IQ) I can use this combo for at least 1 hr handheld before needing to resort to my monopod. (Am using a SB-800 for fill too on a D200)

You won't be sorry.

bOBf

Oct 27, 2009 at 01:07 AM

Kingfishphoto
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p.2 #14 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

I had the Sigma 150 in EOS mount. When i moved back to Nikon, i purchased the Sigma 180 macro and the Sigma 1.4 converter. Iam very impressed with the results on my D300. I also own a Vivitar 55 F2.8 MF macro lens, its very impressive also, and works well as a nice 55MM lens(not considering crop). I guess D700 is the next step.

Oct 27, 2009 at 01:34 PM

44lefty
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p.2 #15 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

The 105 is really terrific. I can't think why I might want VR.

Larry

Oct 27, 2009 at 02:29 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #16 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

44lefty wrote:
The 105 is really terrific. I can't think why I might want VR.

Larry

VR for micro work is kind of useless. Tripods are key.

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:06 PM

44lefty
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p.2 #17 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:
44lefty wrote:
The 105 is really terrific. I can't think why I might want VR.

Larry

VR for micro work is kind of useless. Tripods are key.

Tripods are certainly the key to eliminatnig camera vibration in mzacrophotography, especially. Even more effective is the use of tripod coupled with off-camera flash to eliminate subject motion (such as flowers on a cloudy, breezy day).

Larry

Oct 30, 2009 at 11:58 AM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #18 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Jammy Straub wrote:
If price is no object the ZF 100 f/2 is the way I'd go. You get 1:1 with a small tube and f/2 for ease of focusing and portrait DOF. I love love love the way that lens paints.

Or, if you don't near the reach of the100mm lens, the Zeiss ZF 50mm f/2.0 Makro-Planar.

Oct 30, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #19 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Lotusm50 wrote:
Jammy Straub wrote:
If price is no object the ZF 100 f/2 is the way I'd go. You get 1:1 with a small tube and f/2 for ease of focusing and portrait DOF. I love love love the way that lens paints.

Or, if you don't near the reach of the100mm lens, the Zeiss ZF 50mm f/2.0 Makro-Planar.

Either of those look like great lenses, but they have break the bank prices. I think there are cheeper alternatives that work just as well.

Oct 30, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.2 #20 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

brinnonbob wrote:
Yet another vote for the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 Macro! And be sure to get the Sigma 1.4X TC to go along with it. Actual working distance is approx. 8 inches in front of the lens. Plenty of space for flash use without lens shadows.

X2

Oct 30, 2009 at 08:17 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #21 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:
Lotusm50 wrote:
Jammy Straub wrote:
If price is no object the ZF 100 f/2 is the way I'd go. You get 1:1 with a small tube and f/2 for ease of focusing and portrait DOF. I love love love the way that lens paints.

Or, if you don't near the reach of the100mm lens, the Zeiss ZF 50mm f/2.0 Makro-Planar.

Either of those look like great lenses, but they have break the bank prices. I think there are cheeper alternatives that work just as well.

The ZFs cost $1033 (50 MP) and $1450 (100 MP). Not really break the bank prices, and only a bit more than the Nikon lens mentioned here -- the 105/2.8 VR is $900-1000 (depending where you shop). As with most things, we get what you pay for.

Oct 31, 2009 at 05:27 PM

euua
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p.2 #22 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

if you want you can get Tokina 100mm macro....
I have one with some tubes it makes very nice pictures.

you can find one at fleabay for 350.00 or so - not much in used section all new.

Oct 31, 2009 at 07:36 PM

fcobb
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p.2 #23 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

firewireguy wrote:
another vote for the Sigma 150. Amazing lens. Love it

....and another.

Oct 31, 2009 at 09:02 PM

Kit Laughlin
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p.2 #24 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

André,

I voted for the new 60/2.8 as well as the 105 VR, for both DX and FX.

The 60 is the sharpest lens I have ever used, period (and I have owned both the Zeiss 50/2 and 100/2 macros). The VR is really useful shooting products quickly, too (becomes 150 on DX as you know; very handy focal length). I know you write above that macro photography *should* be shot off a tripod, but if you are doing product work (like food) small camera movements are very time-consuming. I can get perfect results with the 105 VR on the D700, shooting at ƒ8 of ƒ11, handheld, and using a decent shutter speed under tungsten lights, with Auto ISO set to 6400.

Now, I am not sure which DX body you are putting these lenses on, but the 60 on DX is very close to the 105 on FX in terms of FOV, and you can get away with slower shutter speeds.

I do like the sound of the Sigma; I will look into that.

hth, kl

I

Nov 01, 2009 at 06:45 AM

44lefty
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p.2 #25 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

I looked up the 105 macro VR on B&H, and it's listed somewhere around $800. (sorry, didn't write it down). You could take a look at KEH for the older lens (used).

Larry

Nov 01, 2009 at 05:23 PM


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