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Archive 2009 · Do I really need a grey card?
  
 
dmacmillan
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p.2 #1 · Do I really need a grey card?


Erik Moore wrote:
I have around 8 lenses. One of these for each of them and I'm set! Sorry, a $350 grey card doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me.

I use the WhiBal card. It's a calibrated grey. I don't use it (nor should it be used) for exposure.

When you had this discussion with your colleague, was it an academic exercise or did it relate to a practical need? Formerly I was a commercial/industrial photographer. I shot mostly medium and large format with manual cameras. I also shot a lot of transparencies for publication which require exact exposure, at least as exact as digital. I carried a handheld meter and a color meter. I did have a grey card that came with me, but I didn't use it that much. I'd take a frame with it in the scene to be used as a reference, but I didn't use it all the time as a method to determine exposure.

Digital cameras are pretty amazing little machines and have a lot of capability to help you achieve correct exposure. I find I can get good, consistent exposures that need a minimum of post processing adjustment by using my camera and common sense. I did do some testing to get everything dialed in and I check every once in a while to assure myself that my settings are still good.

I see a lot of posts dealing with exposure and I'm trying to figure out if people are really having a hard time getting correct exposures or if they're just anal about it. Bad exposure can ruin a good picture, but perfect exposure can't make a bad photo better.


Oct 20, 2009 at 07:13 PM
cgardner
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p.2 #2 · Do I really need a grey card?


kylegehmlich wrote:

I just prefer grey because it's calibrated to work with my camera's meter's assumptions: that a reflective reading of 18% grey equals proper exposure. Using a towel can be fairly precise, I just trust calibrated tools more. (That is not a dig at anyone who uses the "towel method" or other similar method)


A reflective reading off 18% gray doesn't equal "proper" exposure. Most cameras are calibrated based on value of 12-13% falling in the middle of the scale, per ANSI standards. Also the speed on the menu of the camera (e.g. ISO 100) may not actually the true speed of the sensor, which is why ANSI calibrated hand held meters must be compensated to each camera body used to obtain optimum exposure.

Anecdotal accounts I've read say the 18% card originated in reproduction photography back in the 1920s as an exposure guide. Apparently even Kodak doesn't know exactly when it was first produced. Why 18%? Where a 50% dot would typically fall in a halftone. The white side of the card reflects 5x more light which where the highlights would typically fall. Back in the mid-1970s I worked making halftones and color separations by camera at National Geographic and the main process control tool, even then, was a gray scale used to evaluate dot placement so that account seems plausible to me.

There were many metering standards in the early days and it was assumed 18% was the mid-point of film sensitivity. Ansel Adams adopted the 18% card as the perceptual "Zone V" benchmark for his zone system which is part of why it became the Holy Grail of exposure. But in the process of developing ANSI standards it was discovered with testing that 12-13% reflectance was a more accurate benchmark for exposing negatives. Kodak considered changing the card, but Adams fearing that would somehow undermine the Zone System goldmine, reportedly camped out in Rochester and badgered Kodak until they relented and left it at 18%. Today if you buy a Kodak Gray Card Kit (Publication R-27) and read the instructions they say to adjust a meter reading off the card by 1/3 to obtain a more correct exposure. The cards are actually manufactured by Tiffen and are color neutral.

In any process control it best to measure what is most critical to the outcome. When shooting negatives exposure is based on putting adequate density in the shadow areas of the negative. For transparencies and digital the highlight detail is critical variable so the calibration of the exposure is best based on the highlights.

Compensation of a hand-held meter like a L-358 is performed done by taking a reading with the meter (e.g. f/5.6) then shooting a bracket series of exposures of test target like a white towel around that reading (e.g. from f/4 to f/8 in 1/3 stop increments) then looking at the resulting RAW files to evaluate visually, based on image detail, which exposure actually reproduces the textured highlights correctly. The towel makes an ideal target for that exercise because its easy to see in the loops of the fabric when overexposure starts to obliterate the detail.


A card can also be used to determine what ratios you're dealing with by placing it in various parts of the scene and taking readings off of it.



The ratio convention used for portraiture (e.g. 2:1, 3:1, 4:1) where the shadow value is constant describes the lighting on a face, not the entire scene and is based on several assumptions . The ratio indicates the relative REFLECTED brightness on the highlighted part of the face vs the shadow side (represented by the constant 1). The convention also assumes the key light overlaps fill which is the same (i.e. neutral) on both sides of the face. That is why there is no 1:1 ratio in the convention.

The earliest analog ratio meters consisted of a card with two holes, one clear placed over the shadow side of the face, and one a graduated ND filter. Each ND of .30 cuts light by a stop. By moving the ND over the highlight hole until it matched the brightness of the clear hole over the shadows the ratio of reflected brightness could be determined. Simple, clever, and very accurate.

When we meter two lights separately with an incident reading, the REFLECTIVE ratio isn't determined directly from the INCIDENT readings, it is inferred from the convention which assumes the key light overlaps fill that is even on both sides of the face.

If you take two identical lights and put them at identical distances, with fill over the camera and the key to the side in front of the face this is how the ratio math works:

H:S
1:1 one unit of fill hits the entire front of the face
1:0 equal strength key light overlaps the fill
===
2:1 because the light is additive 2x more light reflects from the highlights

In like manner a 3:1 is obtained when the key light is 2x (1-f/stop) brighter:

H:S
1:1 one unit of fill hits the entire front of the face
2:0 2x stronger key light overlaps the fill
===
3:1 because the light is additive 3x more light reflects from the highlights

In cinematography where many lights are used the convention is to express ratios between them in terms of incident strength. An incident ratio of 1:1 is actually the same as a reflected ratio of 2:1 in the portrait ratio convention. That is a source of confusion.


I guess a towel would work too, but I find that method a little cumbersome when you want several readings or your light changes often throughout a shoot. Plus you have to make actual exposures to use the towel, so you need to change your camera's settings every time you meter.


How you might use a towel to set ratios, if you dropped your meter and broke it, would be as follows:

If you want your fill at f/5.6 set your camera lens to f/5.6, put the towel where the face will be and adjust the light until the towel starts to clip. Turn off the fill light.

Change the camera aperture to the value desired for the key light (e.g. f/8 - one stop brighter than fill for a 3:1 reflected ratio) and adjust the light until the towel starts to clip.

The camera sensor becomes the meter, with the towel clipping the benchmark for exposure.

Ratios by the numbers are just a blueprint. What matters is how the light looks and whether or not it fits the context of the subject's age, gender, and the intended message. For example you might light a woman with various tone shadows depending on whether it was a portrait intended to be soft and feminine, or more serious and business-like (i.e. more stereotypically masculine).

The simplest way I've found to arrive and the desired ratio and perfect exposure with studio lighting is this:

1) Start with just the fill. Raise it until the image from the camera reveals the desired shadow tone overall. The lighter the foundation of filled shadows, the softer the final lighting will look.

2) Turn on the key light. Have the subject hold the towel next to their face (on the brighter key light side). Just raise the intensity until it clips, then back off a bit. You'll need to compare camera exposure warning with the RAW files initially to corollate the two.

The result is a full range of detail over the entire tonal scale that EXACTLY matches the range of the sensor, determined empirically by evaluating the results of the lights hitting the sensor.

The technical part, matching scene range to sensor for maximum use of its dynamic range, is really as simple as that. Take 5 minutes and try it and you'll see what I mean....

Making the technical stuff systematic and a no-brainer gets it out of the way and frees the mind for more important stuff like interacting with your subject...



This image is copyrighted by the owner





This image is copyrighted by the owner




Chuck




Edited on Oct 20, 2009 at 09:17 PM · View previous versions


Oct 20, 2009 at 09:03 PM
RDKirk
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p.2 #3 · Do I really need a grey card?


I just prefer grey because it's calibrated to work with my camera's meter's assumptions: that a reflective reading of 18% grey equals proper exposure. Using a towel can be fairly precise, I just trust calibrated tools more. (That is not a dig at anyone who uses the "towel method" or other similar method)

A card can also be used to determine what ratios you're dealing with by placing it in various parts of the scene and taking readings off of it. I guess a towel would work too, but I find that method a little cumbersome when you want several readings or your light changes often throughout a shoot. Plus you have to make actual exposures to use the towel, so you need to change your camera's settings every time you meter.


I use a Sekonic meter with the dome recessed to measure ratios.

For my work, placing a gray card in the scene for color balancing in post works best. It's what I did with film 30 years ago, and still works best for me.

But for exposure metering, I use a textured white card facing the main light to identify the maximum exposure just short of blowing the textured highlights. Whether I can control the total dynamic range (with fill lighting, reflectors, et cetera) or not, the maximum exposure just short of blowing the textured highlights gives me as much exposure for the shadows--that means an image that contains as much data as the sensor can capture.

In basic concept, the intent is to do the same thing as "exposing for the shadows and developing for the highlights"--to collect as much scene data as possible to give me the widest range of printing options.


Oct 20, 2009 at 09:09 PM
Daan B
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p.2 #4 · Do I really need a grey card?


dmacmillan wrote:
I use the WhiBal card. It's a calibrated grey. I don't use it (nor should it be used) for exposure.


Me too... with good results


Oct 20, 2009 at 09:15 PM
cgardner
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p.2 #5 · Do I really need a grey card?


RDKirk wrote:
Whether I can control the total dynamic range (with fill lighting, reflectors, et cetera) or not, the maximum exposure just short of blowing the textured highlights gives me as much exposure for the shadows--that means an image that contains as much data as the sensor can capture.


That's the essence of exposure in the technical sense, not just getting the highlights, shadows or midtones correct, but fitting the scene range to the sensor and accurately reproducing the entire tonal scale and preserving the perceptual ambience of the lighting.



This image is copyrighted by the owner




In the studio that is trivial, as I previously mentioned: first fill for the shadows, then add key on top of fill until just below clipping.

Outdoors things are more difficult because in most cases we start with ambient light contrast which exceeds the range of the sensor. Hence a dilemma: Expose for the highlights and the midtones are reproduced darker than seen by eye (i.e. normal) in the photo and shadow detail is lost. Expose to make the mid-tones like faces look normal and highlights will be blown and shadows may still be lost in contrasty cross lighting.

One solution is to shoot into the shadows of the ambient, backlighting the subject, expose to keep the sunlit highlights under clipping, then fill the hole in the ambient lighting pattern with the flash. If the flash does not overlap the sunny highlight the net effect is a nicely backlit foreground subject (a good way to create the illusion of 3D) that fits the range of the sensor.

To get complete control over pattern and ratio two flashes are needed in front: one off axis to create the highlight pattern on the shady side of the face, and a second from over the camera to lift the shadows more than the light from the sky that is there already does.

Chuck


Oct 20, 2009 at 09:48 PM
cineski
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p.2 #6 · Do I really need a grey card?


This is all I've ever used. Oh wait, I do have a Gretag McB card, but don't use it.

Daan B wrote:
dmacmillan wrote:
I use the WhiBal card. It's a calibrated grey. I don't use it (nor should it be used) for exposure.


Me too... with good results



Oct 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM
Future Man
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p.2 #7 · Do I really need a grey card?


I just wiggle the WB slider in Lightroom and don't think about this shit when I'm shooting.

(JOKE post... but yea, it's actually what I do now... Maybe when real color accuracy matters I'll start using a grey card)


Oct 20, 2009 at 10:27 PM
dmacmillan
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p.2 #8 · Do I really need a grey card?


Future Man wrote:
I just wiggle the WB slider in Lightroom and don't think about this shit when I'm shooting.

(JOKE post... but yea, it's actually what I do now... Maybe when real color accuracy matters I'll start using a grey card)

You may be joking, but I rarely want a clinically correct white balance. Look at movies. The WB can be all over the place according to what look the director is after. Silent films were often tinted to convey a feeling or emotion.


Oct 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM
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p.2 #9 · Do I really need a grey card?


dmacmillan wrote:
You may be joking, but I rarely want a clinically correct white balance.


I totally agree with you, but I also find that it's easier to get the look I want starting from an accurate white balance than with one that's arbitrarily-set.


Oct 21, 2009 at 12:24 AM
Future Man
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p.2 #10 · Do I really need a grey card?


This forum is like a free education. Blows my mind. The internet ROCKS.

Oct 21, 2009 at 03:43 PM
 



dmacmillan
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p.2 #11 · Do I really need a grey card?


shatterkiss wrote:
I totally agree with you, but I also find that it's easier to get the look I want starting from an accurate white balance than with one that's arbitrarily-set.

I agree with you there.


Oct 21, 2009 at 05:00 PM
Carmen Miranda
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p.2 #12 · Do I really need a grey card?


cgardner wrote: first fill for the shadows, then add key on top of fill until just below clipping.


Chuck,

Not to take this sideways, but I'm a bit confused about your comment.
How do you fill shadows if the key has not been established and shadows created?


Oct 21, 2009 at 05:14 PM
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p.2 #13 · Do I really need a grey card?


Carmen Miranda wrote:
cgardner wrote: first fill for the shadows, then add key on top of fill until just below clipping.


Chuck,

Not to take this sideways, but I'm a bit confused about your comment.
How do you fill shadows if the key has not been established and shadows created?


The key light doesn't "create" shadows. The shadows are already there courtesy of whatever ambient light there is before the key light is ever turned on. What the key light does actually is create a highlight pattern over the fill.

It might seem like a word game, but is goes to the core of the cause and effect of how fill and key light must work together to fit the range of a scene to the sensor to record detail over the entire tonal scale.

The reason any additional fill above ambient is needed is because the contrast range exceeds the range of the sensor.

Take a subject in put their back to the sun. Its possible to perfectly expose the shaded face lit by the sky with just the ambient light but the background which is 3 stops brighter will get blown out because the range of the sensor is only about 7 stops with detail. If we expose to retain the highlights, the camera sensor renders the midtones too dark (i.e., darker than seen by eye) and shadow detail is lost. Why? The scene range exceeds the sensor's.

No fill is typically needed on an overcast day and the lighting looks flat in a photo because the contrast of the scene lit with the even wrap around effect of the sky fits or is even shorter than the range of the camera. Same root cause: scene range doesn't fit the sensor.

Now lets consider what actually happens in sunlight when the sun is put to the back of the subject and a flash is used on the front of the face. It is commonly referred to as "fill flash" because it adds light to the shaded side, but what actually happens is the flash creates a highlight pattern on the front shaded side of the face. That is what a "key" light does. The places where flash doesn't hit and create highlights will still be shaded, but filled by the ambient light from the sky the person is facing.

Consider a totally dark room indoors. If you take a spot light and shine it on the wall, does the light create a room full of shadows or a highlight on the wall?

When we start with a totally dark indoor room and a light over the camera and raise its intensity until the camera sensor can record detail in the darkest parts what is happening isn't the creation of shadows, it is the creation of SHADOW DETAIL. The key light will overlap whatever detail is revealed in the shadows by a neutral fill light, creating highlights over top of the fill. Exposure -- with detail everywhere on the tonal scale of the scene -- becomes a total no brainer: just keep adding key light until clipping occurs in the textured highlights, then back off until detail is retained.

If you set lights in reverse, starting with only a key light and adding fill, as the fill level increases the exposure in the highlights will keep changing because what is actually happening, even though the fill is added second, is that the key light overlaps the fill. So you'll add a bit more fill, adjust the exposure, add more fill, adjust the exposure like a game of cat and mouse.

When fill is placed off axis it creates shadows. Where there are fill shadows there is an absence of fill and a dark void in the lighting pattern which I find harsh and unflattering on a face. YMMV.

If you can't visualize this word picture then just grab a couple lights, find a dark room, and try setting the lights both ways (key first vs fill first) and you will immediate grasp the cause and effect I describe.

Chuck





Oct 21, 2009 at 07:54 PM
Carmen Miranda
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p.2 #14 · Do I really need a grey card?


cgardner wrote:
The key light doesn't "create" shadows. The shadows are already there courtesy of whatever ambient light there is before the key light is ever turned on. What the key light does actually is simply create a highlight pattern over the fill.

It might seem like a word game, but is goes to the core of the cause and effect of how fill and key light must work together ....


I guess everybody has a different way of managing light, but this sounds a bit like counting sheeps hooves and dividing by four to get a count. Whatever works, works, I suppose, but I prefer to keep things simpler where fill is subservient to my primary (key) light source, whether it be ambient, back, side, up, down, continuous, flash or mixed. I find it much easier to visualize and work with my dominant light sources first, then regulate fill to refine the light balance to get a desired result. Only when fill cannot practically be regulated, as in the case of ambient sunlight, will I use fill as my base line for set up. Even then, I will have previsualized my key light, both in terms of level and position. In either case, the key, not the fill, will be the dominant influence and the primary determinant factor in my lighting strategy. How dominant will depend on how much fill is used.

Good luck.


Oct 21, 2009 at 08:59 PM
RDKirk
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p.2 #15 · Do I really need a grey card?


Carmen Miranda wrote:
cgardner wrote:
The key light doesn't "create" shadows. The shadows are already there courtesy of whatever ambient light there is before the key light is ever turned on. What the key light does actually is simply create a highlight pattern over the fill.

It might seem like a word game, but is goes to the core of the cause and effect of how fill and key light must work together ....


I guess everybody has a different way of managing light, but this sounds a bit like counting sheeps hooves and dividing by four to get a count. .


For old portrait guys, it makes perfect sense.

Back in the days when we just used a few thousand watts of tungsten bulbery for portraits, the first thing we did was to set the fill light and the fill exposure. A lot of older portrait photographers working with electronic flash still do it that way. That was because we shot negative film, and negative film is more vulnerable to losing image detail from underexposure of the shadows than from overexposure of the highlights.

So we set the exposure of the shadows--the fill exposure--as our base and then added light to that with the main light.

Chuck is saying that digital should be exposed with the same considerations--set the fill light first for an exposure that puts the shadows well above the noise floor where detail would be lost.

When Chuck says the main light does not create shadows, that's an interesting play on physical concepts. A shadow is a lack of light. You don't "create" a lack of light. You create light, and where there is no light, there is a lack of light.


Oct 21, 2009 at 09:50 PM
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p.2 #16 · Do I really need a grey card?


cgardner wrote:
Carmen Miranda wrote:
cgardner wrote: first fill for the shadows, then add key on top of fill until just below clipping.


Chuck,

Not to take this sideways, but I'm a bit confused about your comment.
How do you fill shadows if the key has not been established and shadows created?


The key light doesn't "create" shadows. The shadows are already there courtesy of whatever ambient light there is before the key light is ever turned on. What the key light does actually is create a highlight pattern over the fill.

It might seem like a word game, but is goes to the core of the cause and effect of how fill and key light must work together to fit the range of a scene to the sensor to record detail over the entire tonal scale.

The reason any additional fill above ambient is needed is because the contrast range exceeds the range of the sensor.

Take a subject in put their back to the sun. Its possible to perfectly expose the shaded face lit by the sky with just the ambient light but the background which is 3 stops brighter will get blown out because the range of the sensor is only about 7 stops with detail. If we expose to retain the highlights, the camera sensor renders the midtones too dark (i.e., darker than seen by eye) and shadow detail is lost. Why? The scene range exceeds the sensor's.

No fill is typically needed on an overcast day and the lighting looks flat in a photo because the contrast of the scene lit with the even wrap around effect of the sky fits or is even shorter than the range of the camera. Same root cause: scene range doesn't fit the sensor.

Now lets consider what actually happens in sunlight when the sun is put to the back of the subject and a flash is used on the front of the face. It is commonly referred to as "fill flash" because it adds light to the shaded side, but what actually happens is the flash creates a highlight pattern on the front shaded side of the face. That is what a "key" light does. The places where flash doesn't hit and create highlights will still be shaded, but filled by the ambient light from the sky the person is facing.

Consider a totally dark room indoors. If you take a spot light and shine it on the wall, does the light create a room full of shadows or a highlight on the wall?

When we start with a totally dark indoor room and a light over the camera and raise its intensity until the camera sensor can record detail in the darkest parts what is happening isn't the creation of shadows, it is the creation of SHADOW DETAIL. The key light will overlap whatever detail is revealed in the shadows by a neutral fill light, creating highlights over top of the fill. Exposure -- with detail everywhere on the tonal scale of the scene -- becomes a total no brainer: just keep adding key light until clipping occurs in the textured highlights, then back off until detail is retained.

If you set lights in reverse, starting with only a key light and adding fill, as the fill level increases the exposure in the highlights will keep changing because what is actually happening, even though the fill is added second, is that the key light overlaps the fill. So you'll add a bit more fill, adjust the exposure, add more fill, adjust the exposure like a game of cat and mouse.

When fill is placed off axis it creates shadows. Where there are fill shadows there is an absence of fill and a dark void in the lighting pattern which I find harsh and unflattering on a face. YMMV.

If you can't visualize this word picture then just grab a couple lights, find a dark room, and try setting the lights both ways (key first vs fill first) and you will immediate grasp the cause and effect I describe.

Chuck





Chuck, you seriously deserve recognition for the amount of information you provide. The amount of effort you put into each post is nothing short of amazing!


Oct 22, 2009 at 01:44 AM
brad_s
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p.2 #17 · Do I really need a grey card?


great conversation, now my head is about to explode.

Oct 22, 2009 at 02:38 AM
cgardner
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p.2 #18 · Do I really need a grey card?


Carmen Miranda wrote:

Whatever works, works, I suppose, but I prefer to keep things simpler where fill is subservient to my primary (key) light source, whether it be ambient, back, side, up, down, continuous, flash or mixed.


I see fill as an equal partner. In fact in a 2:1 reflected ratio the key and fill are of equal INCIDENT strength:

H:S
1:1 Even fill on both sides of the face
1:0 Overlapping key light, same strength
===
2:1 Twice as much light reflects from the highlights vs shadows.

In all ratios the highlight tone is the same. Its the difference in tone and detail visible in the shadows which cause the brain to think light is "hard" or "soft". Conventional wisdom nowadays seems to be softness is controlled by the size and distance of the key light (i.e. wrapping the light around the object casting the shadow). But apparent softness can also be controlled with more or less fill.

Starting with fill and adjusting based on shadow detail s something the instant feedback of the camera makes possible. Its also the only way to visualize places the fill pattern isn't reaching. If you start with key and then add fill the unfilled gaps caused by shaded fill are more difficult to see. The most compelling reason is that it makes creating a file with detail everywhere on the tonal scale a no brainer.

You may think it makes little sense if you've never tried it, but if you actually try setting fill first I think you'll find it makes a great deal of sense, especially to someone starting out and trying to learn what the roles of key and fill are, and the ramifications of shaded fill.

Chuck


Oct 22, 2009 at 02:46 AM
Carmen Miranda
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p.2 #19 · Do I really need a grey card?


cgardner wrote:
You may think it makes little sense if you've never tried it, but if you actually try setting fill first I think you'll find it makes a great deal of sense, especially to someone starting out and trying to learn what the roles of key and fill are, and the ramifications of shaded fill.

Chuck


Thank you Dr. Fill for enlightening me.

Now I can move on to the next bardo plane.

Note to self: No wonder my kids never listen to me.


Oct 22, 2009 at 03:53 AM
cgardner
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p.2 #20 · Do I really need a grey card?


Carmen Miranda wrote:

Now I can move on to the next bardo plane.



Actually its my mission to enlighten people and help them understand how to use fill effectively before they depart the mortal coil

When you get reincarnated you need to learn stuff like lighting all over again. If you've been really bad in your past life all you get is a single light and a reflector..


Oct 22, 2009 at 01:26 PM
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