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Archive 2009 · "Swirling" bokeh

  
 
Astragony
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · "Swirling" bokeh


I am in search of a normalish lens that has very smooth swirling bokeh.
The only lens I used like this is the 85mm 1.2 (it's not exactly a normal though...)

Any <50mm options in the alt world?

Thanks.



Oct 09, 2009 at 09:25 AM
Orio
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · "Swirling" bokeh


My Leica Summilux-R 1.4/50 shows the type of bokeh that you say.



Oct 09, 2009 at 09:41 AM
Lotusm50
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · "Swirling" bokeh


Do you have an example of what you are talking about?


Oct 09, 2009 at 10:20 AM
mpmendenhall
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · "Swirling" bokeh


A CZJ Biotar 58mm/f2 (M42 mount) is a fairly "swirly" lens, and closer to normalish than 85mm.
Wide open (not the smoothest bokeh, but that varies with distance and sometimes improves when a bit stopped down):
http://praetoriusphoto.images.s3.amazonaws.com/fmforums/20090407_biotar.jpg



Oct 09, 2009 at 10:24 AM
DubiousDrewski
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · "Swirling" bokeh


The Helios lenses are very well known for that swirly bokeh. I own the 44-2 and you get some crazy swirling motion with it.

I'm at work, so I can't link any photos for you to see, sorry.



Oct 09, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Ed Sawyer
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · "Swirling" bokeh


Biotars are the way to go. the 58/2 will do it. The 75/1.5 will do it even more...


Oct 09, 2009 at 11:22 AM
deepbluejh
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · "Swirling" bokeh


Pretty much all of the super fast 50s will do this.


Oct 09, 2009 at 11:30 AM
cogitech
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · "Swirling" bokeh


The Rokkor 58/1.2 can do it for you, but typically only wide open:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3306/3450880127_65833b064b.jpg



Oct 09, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Makten
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · "Swirling" bokeh


deepbluejh wrote:
Pretty much all of the super fast 50s will do this.


If the distance is close enough, yes. At larger distance, the blur discs often tend to get diamond shaped at the corners instead, which is not very nice IMO.

To get the most swirl, you'd want the front lens element to be as small as possible for the given wide open aperture. It will then cause vignetting by shading one side of the aperture, giving a cats-eye shaped iris in the corners.
This means that the older and faster the lens, the more likely it is to give this effect, since older lenses often have small front lens elements to keep a small filter size.



Oct 09, 2009 at 11:41 AM
kosmoskatten
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · "Swirling" bokeh


I am not too fond of the Rokkor 58/1.2 look, it gives me a head ache looking at the grass behind the little girl. But hey, to each his own.


Oct 09, 2009 at 01:13 PM
cogitech
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · "Swirling" bokeh


kosmoskatten wrote:
I am not too fond of the Rokkor 58/1.2 look, it gives me a head ache looking at the grass behind the little girl. But hey, to each his own.


You're supposed to look at the girl and her little bouquet.

(When you do, the swirly-ness feels much different, IMO.)



Oct 09, 2009 at 01:14 PM
Lotusm50
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · "Swirling" bokeh


kosmoskatten wrote:
I am not too fond of the Rokkor 58/1.2 look, it gives me a head ache looking at the grass behind the little girl. But hey, to each his own.



+1

Looking at the girl with that background is what gives the headache, because it keeps calling attention to itself because it is somewhat unnatural.




Oct 09, 2009 at 01:24 PM
cogitech
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · "Swirling" bokeh


As deepbluejh noted, "Pretty much all of the super fast 50s will do this". I agree. Any f1.2 normal (50-ish) lens would have done the same thing if used to take this identical shot. In fact, a 50 would have even busier blur due to the focal length difference.

Your headache (which I seriously question) is due to my technique. I suppose I owe an apology?

Why blame it on the Rokkor?



Oct 09, 2009 at 01:32 PM
Makten
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · "Swirling" bokeh


The "busy bokeh" of Cogitechs photo is wonderful. It concentrates my eye to the girl, while still leaving a contrasty background.

This is character! You never really know when to expect it, but you can learn to use it. This is also why I sold my Sigma 50/1.4. It was too smooth and perfect.

Here's some serious swirl for you, but from a longer lens. The Nikon Series-E 75-150/3.5 on FF. I really love the rendering, and if you stop down it is incredibly sharp.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Makten/75-150/DSC_7060.jpg


Edit: For some reason, Photobucket has chosen to f*ck up older posted pictures by compressing them without asking. That's why you see square artifacts all over the image.



Oct 09, 2009 at 01:51 PM
cavewalker
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · "Swirling" bokeh


The swirl of a Biotar 58 T (oldest version):
http://gallery.me.com/ralph.schoberth/100563/IMG_6615/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/ralph.schoberth/100563/IMG_6611/web.jpg

and finally the Cats eyes
http://gallery.me.com/ralph.schoberth/100563/IMG_6613/web.jpg



Oct 09, 2009 at 02:03 PM
pascal03
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · "Swirling" bokeh


The Sigma 50mm f1.4 may suit your needs... it definitely has the bookeh factor going for it.


Oct 09, 2009 at 03:39 PM
philber
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · "Swirling" bokeh


Lovely shots, cavewalker. Thanks.


Oct 09, 2009 at 03:53 PM
DubiousDrewski
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · "Swirling" bokeh


Actually pascal, the Sigma 50mm f1.4 is not a good choice for this. It's known for its exceptionally smooth bokeh, whish is the exact oposite thing "Astragony" is looking for.


Oct 09, 2009 at 04:03 PM
Mitch Hamilton
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · "Swirling" bokeh


Mir-1B 37mm 2.8 (M42 Mount)

Wonderful Swirls!



Oct 09, 2009 at 04:59 PM
guissimo
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · "Swirling" bokeh


I also like swirly bokeh, so based on what I found on Flickr, I got a Helios-44 (M39 chrome)... I've only taken test shots in the backyard. Here's one wide open and at the minimum focusing distance (about 1.6ft).

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MY1w1N94tUs/Ss-rm9Ptw3I/AAAAAAAAAPY/9FQ1pih20BU/s800/_MG_1184Helios44_chrome.jpg





Oct 09, 2009 at 05:16 PM
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