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Archive 2009 · The perfect CA target?
  
 
theSuede
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p.2 #1 · The perfect CA target?


Philbert and Cable:
The problem with that kind of scenario is that it is very hard to control exactly how much overexposure the whiteout is packing. That amount of overexposure is in part controlling how much of purple CA that is translated into the picture. The case of purple-fringing (fringeing?) is also dependent on how sensitive the camera you use is at the very ends of the visible-light spectrum. PF is mostly caused by extreme-ends (near-IR and near-UV) LoCA, which cause these "halos" around sharp contrast edges when you have full-spectrum light backlighting.

2Ev overexposure - THIS amount of PF is visible at -5Ev strength.
4Ev overexposure - almost certainly twice that amount of PF-width, since you're forcing 4x the light amount into the LoCA effect. If the effect was at -5Ev at two pixelwidths before, it will now be at -3Ev at the same pixelwidth, and at -5Ev two pixels further into the shaded area.

PF is a kind of LoCA, but one of the harder ones to measure/compare with any usable precision.


Sep 21, 2009 at 07:04 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.2 #2 · The perfect CA target?


How about shooting straight objects in front of a softbox?

I think the trick is to come up with a lighting diagram with set positioning of lights, distances, camera settings etc. That way folks in different parts of the world (different weather seasons etc) could try to consistently replicate as many of the variables as possible.

Of course not everyone has lighting gear, but a controlled test procedure will yield the most consistent results that would "speak" to Alt Forum members...


Sep 21, 2009 at 07:25 PM
theSuede
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p.2 #3 · The perfect CA target?


That would work, as strobes have a quite "full" spectrum. I'd suggest a "level test" that includes a shot at maybe 2 stops smaller aperture to see to that you don't nuke the test. The "2-stops-lower" shot would have to be inside the over-exposure limit.

Sep 21, 2009 at 10:19 PM
siriusdogstar
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p.2 #4 · The perfect CA target?


The best test for Chromatic Aberration I can think of would use three lasers, one red, one green, one blue, all three beams collimated into a single beam pointed perpendicular to lens center, on the center and various other parts of the lens surface; focus on the beam (wear eye protection!!!) and measure resulting point separation between the three colors. Of course, a blue laser is probably too expensive for everyone to purchase.

University of Maine describes a far less expensive test similar to what is proposed here in earlier posts in this thread: http://www.neiu.edu/~pjdolan/aberr.html

Bob Atkins (with free target) suggests this method: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/lens_sharpness.html

PanoTools wiki has this critical information: http://wiki.panotools.org/Chromatic_aberration

And of course there is: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Chromatic_aberration

Note "purple fringing" can also be caused by flare.

In any given test, repeatable results are possible only by using an easily standardized white light source, with specific brightness level.


Sep 22, 2009 at 12:52 AM
olyacme
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p.2 #5 · The perfect CA target?


cogitech wrote:
Do we need two different targets for the two different types of CA?


Except for macro and closeup lenses, and in the absence of a good "artificial" star, real stars at focus remain the best way to test for lateral and longitudinal CA, among other aberrations.

For "defocus CA", a star can be placed slightly out of focus and the resulting disk observed for non uniformity (also good for checking SA and astigmatism). Otherwise, a tilted focus chart works fine.

/Acme


Sep 22, 2009 at 01:24 AM
siriusdogstar
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p.2 #6 · The perfect CA target?


olyacme wrote:
cogitech wrote:
Do we need two different targets for the two different types of CA?


Except for macro and closeup lenses, and in the absence of a good "artificial" star, real stars at focus remain the best way to test for lateral and longitudinal CA, among other aberrations.

For "defocus CA", a star can be placed slightly out of focus and the resulting disk observed for non uniformity (also good for checking SA and astigmatism). Otherwise, a tilted focus chart works fine.

/Acme


+999999999

Spot on! Everyone gets one guess which star I suggest...


Sep 22, 2009 at 01:29 AM
theSuede
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p.2 #7 · The perfect CA target?


If you poked a very tiny hole in a piece of aluminum foil wrapped over the head of a normal speedlight, would that be "small" enough?

Sep 22, 2009 at 09:53 PM
cogitech
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p.2 #8 · The perfect CA target?


Well, we are starting to go in many directions here. Re: the softbox idea; not everyone has a softbox (I speak mainly for myself here, but I can't be the only one). Re: stars; anyone who lives in a large city is out of luck (again, I speak for myself, but I can't be the only one).

Sep 22, 2009 at 09:57 PM
KaaX
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p.2 #9 · The perfect CA target?


Most everybody has a flash. Flash outputs a pretty good sunlight equivalent.

Kaa


Sep 22, 2009 at 10:10 PM
olyacme
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p.2 #10 · The perfect CA target?


theSuede wrote:
If you poked a very tiny hole in a piece of aluminum foil wrapped over the head of a normal speedlight, would that be "small" enough?


Pin pricks in aluminum foil can be used, but it's best to make a bunch and then chose a good one to minimize diffraction. Projecting light through a batch of prospective holes onto a wall is one way to do this. A laser cut 300µm (or so) hole, such as for a pinhole camera, would be a nicer option and fine for testing wide angle lenses at reasonable distances.

A flash's instantaneous output is high, but without continuous output or an effective concentrator its intensity per surface area over time is quite low compared to other light sources. A common 3-watt LED flashlight with the pinhole plate mounted on it might be a better choice. Exposures of defocused disks can be quite long, so mount the flashlight and the camera on stable footings.

A fancier option would be a bare LED with a concentrator, such as a reversed telescope eyepiece, mounted some distance in front of it. This could improve the quality of the "star", making it suitable for use with longer focal lengths at closer distances (with shorter exposures).

/Acme


Sep 23, 2009 at 02:31 AM
 



pdmphoto
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p.2 #11 · The perfect CA target?


Tree branches against a bright sky is always the best test for me.

Sep 23, 2009 at 03:31 AM
kosmoskatten
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p.2 #12 · The perfect CA target?


How about wrapping them tree trunks with tin foil?
That should do it.


Sep 23, 2009 at 05:59 AM
olyacme
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p.2 #13 · The perfect CA target?


kosmoskatten wrote:
How about wrapping them tree trunks with tin foil?
That should do it.


Not far wrong. Silver glass Christmas bulbs hung from trees and hit by full sunlight make decent targets.


Sep 23, 2009 at 06:06 AM
siriusdogstar
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p.2 #14 · The perfect CA target?


any light sourced behind an aperture refracts on the way through; i.e. the aperture itself introduces CA which is added to lens CA, thus light behind holes punched in foil (even by laser-cutting the hole) will not work for measuring lens CA.

star brightness is affected by atmosphere; we want a specific light-value. stars emit specular light; we want to use full-spectrum white light.

inexpensive, commonly available equipment, and a specific setup, is required to give commonly reproduceable results. here's my list; the "specifics" still need to be worked out:

a specific target with specific reflectance is necessary, i.e. the specific target is printed on a specific brand and version and size of photo paper at a specific size using a specific brand/version ink, at a specific dpi.

lens and target are oriented exactly perpendicular to line-of-sight, set a specific distance(s?) apart; specific distance(s?) is dependent on lens focal length.

in an otherwise dark room with non-reflective walls, floor, and ceiling, front-light the target from a standard position (specific x, y, and z) and distance with a specific brand/version of halogen bulb mounted in a specific socket in a pecific orientation; adjust brightness using rheostat to produce a standard EV as measured at the camera. (all this is perhaps the most difficult to set up)

photos are taken at various aperture/shutter speed according to measured EV using a camera with properly calibrated shutter speed, and set to a specific iso.

specific portions of images are examined for CA at a specific magnification, chosen to permit usage of most folks cameras, thereby eliminating differences in pixel density and sensor size.


Sep 23, 2009 at 07:11 AM
Jonas B
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p.2 #15 · The perfect CA target?


I'm not sure we need to take this to such an extreme as wrapping trees in tin foil or buy HMI lamps and turn our living rooms into studios. Is it OK to take it back to a more realistic level?

Here is an example of a target which simply is a laser print on ordinary office paper, halogen lamps:
This image is copyrighted by the owner


To the left an EF85/1.8 at f/5.6, to the right the Samyang 85/1.4 at f/5.6, left border (not really the border this example is from the border if the image is cropped to an aspect of ratio of 1:1.33 (or 4/3). I used the method mentioned in my first reply and the sample is taken from the series of images comparing the EF85/1.8 to the 85mm Samyang over here.

The sample shows 100% crops, the difference is clearly visible. At 200% any faults can easily be detected.


Sep 23, 2009 at 07:56 AM
olyacme
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p.2 #16 · The perfect CA target?


siriusdogstar wrote:
any light sourced behind an aperture refracts on the way through; i.e. the aperture itself introduces CA which is added to lens CA, thus light behind holes punched in foil (even by laser-cutting the hole) will not work for measuring lens CA.


It diffracts on its way through, but does not disperse. A smooth aperture is desirable to keep diffraction uniform, but not even a rough pinhole will suffer from CA.

/Acme


Sep 23, 2009 at 08:33 AM
olyacme
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p.2 #17 · The perfect CA target?


Jonas B wrote:
The sample shows 100% crops, the difference is clearly visible. At 200% any faults can easily be detected.


But remain extremely difficult to classify. Star testing allows much more sophisticated analysis:



This image is copyrighted by the owner






This image is copyrighted by the owner




Things get even more interesting off-axis.


Sep 23, 2009 at 08:42 AM
Jonas B
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p.2 #18 · The perfect CA target?


olyacme wrote:
But remain extremely difficult to classify. Star testing allows much more sophisticated analysis:


Indeed. I guess there is a balance between what results "we" need and the setup. Thinking of Paul's original post:

cogitech wrote:
(...)
- Must be a readily available object, so that we can all use it.


... is it easy for anyone to setup and process the images to get the results you demonstrated? To my eyes it looks so advanced. Maybe it isn't?



Sep 23, 2009 at 09:17 AM
olyacme
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p.2 #19 · The perfect CA target?


Jonas B wrote:
... is it easy for anyone to setup and process the images to get the results you demonstrated? To my eyes it looks so advanced. Maybe it isn't?


The first image is idealized / simulated, the second from a bench test of a more demanding optic than we'll typically encounter. The second one does demonstrate some "defocus CA", though, so that's a little interesting.

Results produced by typical camera lenses won't look like the shown images, but we're lucky in that the focal lengths are shorter and the aberrations are mostly much greater. Basic tests can be performed with just a field, a flashlight, a tripod, and some attention to detail.

/Acme


Sep 23, 2009 at 09:32 AM
Jonas B
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p.2 #20 · The perfect CA target?


olyacme wrote:
(...)
Basic tests can be performed with just a field, a flashlight, a tripod, and some attention to detail.


That sounds good. What is a suggested setup and what will we be able to learn from the results?


Sep 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM
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