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Archive 2009 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests
  
 
Klaus Priebe
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Had a couple of wonderful days with sunrises and sets this week. Worked on using the 4x6 grads on the lens. Looks like its going to work well. I am in the middle of modifying my z-pro filter holder so I can do away with the handheld filters. With the 17mm TSE, back reflection into the filter is a bit of an issue if it is not perfectly aligned with the front of the lens. I tried many different combinations with a 3 stop ND grad and the DB 3 stop reverse grad filter and both did very well when aligned right.
As I get the filter holder modified for the lens I will post more results.
1st shot of the sunrise is with the DB 3 stop reverse grad and the second shot of the tree is with a 3 SS grad.



Jul 11, 2009 at 03:51 PM
gasrocks
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Beautiful! Use any amount of shift and/to tilt for these?


Jul 11, 2009 at 04:06 PM
mMontag
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Klaus,

Thanks for posting those beautiful shots and providing the follow up information on the 4x6's. I'm always a little reluctant to bring up the use of GND's - they seem so taboo for some photographers. In my geographic area they lend themselves very successfully.

I've just returned from a sunrise shoot with the 24TS-E II. I'm just giddy about the lens. The 100% crop seems as if you could just reach into the monitor and touch whats in there. I'm willing to bet the 17mm is on equal footing. 17mm works really well in the portrait position for landscape. Really opens up that sky. The ability to use filters, especially with a holder, adds value to that lens.



Jul 11, 2009 at 04:24 PM
Doug Ball
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Wonderful shots Kluas.
Are you able to shift a horizontal image to the max.?
I am using on my 17 TS-E the Cokin X-Pro holder and filters which are 5 1/16" x 6 5/8". The worse case is for the horizontal and shifted shot because the filter is still in the vertical orientation and the width is 5". I am just making it in this case.
To adapt the holder which had already a 105mm adapter for my old Linhoff 6 x 17 camera, I added a leather ring to the adapter to fill in the space between the holder and the lens. Then I added 1/8" foam to the leather so that what touches the lens barrel is very soft and would not hurt the lens if accidentally touched.
The next thing I do will be to have made a new adapter which actually slides over the lens. It would be necessary to cover most of the rubber focus ring but it is set to the infinity mark 99% of the time anyway.
The portion of tube that slides over the lens would be sized at allow the same 1/8" foam inside to it would just be a soft pressure fit. I think this should work. Handholding the filter is a pain although I made up a pouch that allows you to quickly insert the holder and filter together into the pouch which has a simple plastic liner that can be cleaned easily.



Jul 11, 2009 at 05:59 PM
n0b0
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Sounds very complicated. When I get this lens, I think I'll just bracket the exposures and combine to HDR while waiting for an aftermarket solution.


Jul 11, 2009 at 06:07 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Klaus, those are gorgeous. Thanks for sharing (and stoking my lens envy).


Jul 11, 2009 at 06:36 PM
wstu
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


If any holder works with a 100mm filter on the 17mm without much vignette, I'm in.


Jul 12, 2009 at 02:43 AM
Roland W
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


The 100 mm filter size is going to be a very close fit, and may not allow much room for any shift. Also, I think a holder is going to be difficult, but possible. All the standard holders have a round hole in them at about 100mm diameter. The 17 TSE would really benifit from a square hole near 100 mm in size, so that the full width of the filter can be used at the corners of the field of view. That would take a special holder, and a larger mounting system, perhaps square rather than round. I am considering adapting Lee filter holder parts to make such a filter holder. And that is one benifit to hand holding if you do it just right, because it is possible to make use of the corners. I just happen to hate hand holding.

The Colkin X Pro with its 5 1/4 inch width would be much easier to work with, but the number of filters available seems limited compared to 100mm width filters. I guess I need more research on the X Pro before going with 100mm. I do know my Colkin P filters will not work at all.

Also, the mounting method needs to have good alignment and position, so tht it can reliably hold the filter very close to the front element, but also prevent any occurance of making contact with it. The lovely glass element that sticks out forward almost 3/4 of an inch is very nice to look at, but I sure don't want to scratch the front surface. I have all ready ordered a spare lens cap for my 17 TSE so that I can try to make use of part of it for a secure mounting. The lens cap bayonet is the best choice to mount to if possible. It is fixed in relation to the front group of the lens as far as rotation. The rubber ring just behind it is the focus ring, and turns as you focus, so I sure want to keep it clear for easy use if possible.



Jul 12, 2009 at 05:27 AM
lovinglife
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


wow
Awesome shots, amazing colors!



Jul 12, 2009 at 05:35 AM
gearhead5
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Rowland,
X-Pro sized filters 130mm x 170mm (5 1/3" x 6 2/3") can be ordered from both Lee and Singh-Ray. Also, Lee sells "wings" that attach to their holder to enable the use of the larger filters. That still leaves the problem of how to rig the holder to the lens
Steve



Jul 12, 2009 at 06:48 AM
 

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luant16
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


do you have picture of the holder on the lens ?


Jul 12, 2009 at 07:39 AM
Ed Sawyer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


how much was a spare lens cap?



Jul 12, 2009 at 01:57 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


For a spare cap, I checked B&H with no luck, and then called Canon parts, who could not supply one either. But Canon parts did go to the effort to find that Adorama had them listed and in stock. Here is a link.

http://www.adorama.com/CALC17.html?searchinfo=cap+tse+17

The cost was about $45. I would guess that B&H will list them soon, so a check there is a good idea for in the future.

The cap is made up of three main plastic parts held together with screws. I have taken apart my original cap part way to understand it better. Of the four first screws you remove, one seemed to have the small philips slots filled with epoxy, so that can be a problem. Once you remove the back cover the release lever and a very small spring become loose. The spring is very easy to loose, and it is very tricky to get things back together with the release lever still working. Once inside, you can see the additional screws that hold the double walled front together. I have not yet taken that apart. But the inside diameter of the cap is only about 86mm, which is way too small out at the plane in front of the front lens element. The outer plastic is about 97mm inside diameter, but that as a round hole will not allow enough view either to work well.

My general thinking is to try to mount something like an 86mm to 105mm step up filter adapter to part of the cap, and then adapt some other parts to that to end up with a fairly large opening out in front that is suitable for a filter mount. I have not detailed design yet, and am still trying to decide between 100mm filters and the 5 1/4 filters.

I have also been considering if a Lee wide angle lens hood could be adapted in some way to be useful with the 17 mm TSE.




Jul 12, 2009 at 04:26 PM
gearhead5
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Roland W wrote:
I have also been considering if a Lee wide angle lens hood could be adapted in some way to be useful with the 17 mm TSE.



The Lee wide angle lens hood will not work. Even the P105 WA hood, which has a retaining ring for a 105mm CPL is far too narrow.



Jul 12, 2009 at 06:21 PM
Andrew Gough
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


You have to wonder why Canon did not address this in the Cap design...


Jul 12, 2009 at 06:22 PM
mMontag
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Oh come on Doug - I've heard of the photographers testing lenses on brick walls - but a 17 t/s on a brick foreground You could have dropped that down a bit in shift.

What advantages are you seeing in being able to use the tilt and shift in the same orientation. I was messing with that on a landscape type subject with the 24II - but still in the learning curve as to it's advantage - it may be more useful for an Architectural subject. I have a smaller Arch interior to shoot mid-week - and will play around with that. It seems like a useful feature.



Jul 13, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Doug Ball
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Presently I don't see an advantage with the 17, at least, of using tilt shift in an architectural setting unless you are shooting very low to the floor or perhaps a wall that would be close. The above shot was about 48-50" inches from the brick. If the camera was 7" to 24" from the ground then I would use the tilt and then shift if there was a need to.


Jul 14, 2009 at 12:18 AM
John Daniel
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


I did my little tests as well since I had only the Z-pro holder to work with and did not want to invest in a new filter system. I was wondering if I could fit a Z-pro holder on the TS-E 17. and the answer is yes and thanks to Doug Ball who inspired me.

So if you want to use a Z-pro system, you need :

1. a 96mm Cokin adapter ring for the Z-Pro and to be precise you need a TH 1.00 (thinkness 1). (ordered at Adorama and receive 2 days later at $30 USD).

2. Then put some good black photo tape (the one you buy at pro photo stores). You cover the interior surface (inside the collar) of the ring with the tape and go over the thread up to the base. Do not put any on the base since you have to slide your holder on it. You put 2 thickness of tape. With the 96mm having a thickness of 2 tapes on it, it just fits right to go on your barrel around the lens and stick there just before the focus ring. A bit like the foam is doing with Doug's example. You just push a little (not to much) to fix it there and it holds still and enough to be able to gently turn the holder around the ring for adjustments if need be.

3. Contrary to Doug, you put the ring in the regular way, thread in the direction of the lens (since they are covered with the 2 thickness of tape. That allows you to leave it on the lens and just remove the holder if need be.

4. I recommend mounting the holder on the ring before using it.

I will try to post pictures later.

JD



Aug 27, 2009 at 05:06 PM
Doug Ball
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


John
Are you able to do a full shift while in the horizontal mode? This will be the most demanding situation.
In reality when you are using these filters you probably are not using that much shift and certainly not max shift. With the Z-pro filters they are certainly smaller than my X-pro and that's an advantage.



Aug 29, 2009 at 02:34 PM
John Daniel
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon 17 TSE filter tests


Hi Doug,

Not a full switch but let's say about 3/5 to the right and to the left before starting to see the holder. Now, I could remove one of the plates on the holder since I have left them all because I want to use more than 1 filter. By removing 1 plate on each sides and allowing for only 1 filter I could enhance the results let's say up to 3/4 of the full shift but, as you mentioned, not as good results as the one when using an X-pro filter holder which is a lot larger.

So for let's say ND grads, I should be able to manage unless I really want to make a very wide panorama stitch, which I do not do often. For when I use a solid ND filter, I could turn the holder on the horizontal and then make a a full swing stitch that would use the widest perspective.

Since I am now really broke after purchasing the TS-E 17mm and the TS-E 24mm (by the way, for the interested people, I have FOR SALE a like new and very rare USA copy of Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II for sale at $1,750 CAD = +- $ 1,575 USD), I do not have the means to buy a whole new filter system and I really like my Singh-Rays.

JD



Aug 29, 2009 at 10:06 PM
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