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Archive 2009 · Huge Group Lists

tonyhart
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p.1 #1 · Huge Group Lists

Hi all,

Was wondering if any of you have ever been confronted with huge photo lists prior to weddings. I shoot reportage and while group shots/formals are of course a relevant part of just about every wedding day, I clearly don't market myself as a traditional photographer.

I've got a client for tomorrow and they have a HUGE list of groups they'd like me to shoot. It's pretty much every combination of everybody at the wedding. It's:

A) Bordering on the unfeasible given the time constraints - though I think it should just be doable

B) Completely at odds with how I market my coverage.

I'll shoot it, and it'll be fine, but I find it a little confusing. In the wedding meeting I tend to explain to couples (in a very gentle manner) that while group shots are crucial, if their idea of wedding photography is a string of fairly classic formals, they should be booking a more traditional photographer. They always nod and agree and say that they can see what I mean based on my work, but every now and again I get a couple come back to me who have a bloomin' booklet that amounts to a checklist. It kind of defeats the object of booking a wedding PJ as far as I can work out!

I'm not whinging overtly as this is the recession and work is good, but I was wondering if anyone else has run into this experience and whether anyone else has a similar reaction!*

Tony.

Jul 03, 2009 at 10:21 PM

Mike Mahoney
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p.1 #2 · Huge Group Lists

Formals are part of the game regardless of your style and some couples will want more than others.

I've often thought that having a second shooter to just pose and photograph the formals would give a PJ style photog the freedom to move about the formals staging area and shoot .. there are always a lot of moments to capture while the family members wait their turns.

Jul 03, 2009 at 10:39 PM

tonyhart
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p.1 #3 · Huge Group Lists

Yep, agreed, formals are a part of any wedding, it's more the volume that some couples bring to the table than the concept in itself!

Anyways folks.... MAN YOUR CAMERAS!

Jul 03, 2009 at 10:41 PM

Wes Allen
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p.1 #4 · Huge Group Lists

Groups are for the parents, grandparents, extended family, etc. while the rest of the days is about the style the bride and groom want. It isn't too hard to knock out the big lists, and from what I have seen, those are the photos that will be most popular, not the uber cool shot of the shoes, though the shoe shoot will probably end up on the blog, while non of the group shoots will.

Make sure they give you a list, with the actual peoples names (not just "uncle with bride"), in advance. And be sure there will be someone there to help you get people organized. This is where an assistant can be really helpful

Jul 03, 2009 at 10:44 PM

tonyhart
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p.1 #5 · Huge Group Lists

Thanks Wes. I pretty much agree and do just this. The Best Man is my biatch during formals and lists with everyones name are something I request. I can knock out the group shots without too much hassle, it's more that the scale sometimes surprises me. It kind of defeats the object of having a PJ when the bride offers up a list that dictates each and every shot she wants from arrival at the ceremony through to the first dance...

Oh well. Not too worry, I shall crack on and put my worries behind me!

Jul 03, 2009 at 10:48 PM

ksmahgrts
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p.1 #6 · Huge Group Lists

are you shooting this wedding tomorrow or meeting with the clients?

talk to them in terms of sheer time.

if it takes you - at a minimum - 2 minutes to set up a shot and they have 50 "must do" shots, you've already cut into their reception by more than an hour and a half. any lighting adjustments at all (which there will be, of course) and you're pushing the 2-hour mark.

Jul 03, 2009 at 11:12 PM

G Lund
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p.1 #7 · Huge Group Lists

ksmahgrts wrote:
are you shooting this wedding tomorrow or meeting with the clients?

talk to them in terms of sheer time.

if it takes you - at a minimum - 2 minutes to set up a shot and they have 50 "must do" shots, you've already cut into their reception by more than an hour and a half. any lighting adjustments at all (which there will be, of course) and you're pushing the 2-hour mark.

Or he can try to do what I usually do...I get 90% of my formals, groups, posed shots done prior to the ceremony. I get the list of shots then usually do all the shots I can with the grooms part without the bride there (she is usually getting ready)..then we run the groom out and do all the brides part of the shots, that way after the ceremony we only have the ones with the two of them together. Some times the bride and groom dont care if they see each other before hand and I can get most if not all done before the ceremony even starts.
I explain to the B&G during the consult that it is there job to make sure everyone they want in the pics show up at least 90 minutes before hand to take pics.
Once you explain to them how doing it that way is much more relaxed, and they will be looking their best at that time...there is rarely a problem.
George

Jul 04, 2009 at 01:06 AM

DavidWEGS
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p.1 #8 · Huge Group Lists

I get this a fair amount. It is either the wedding coordinator or the online bride forum that suggests they present their photog. with a list.

I send them the list back and suggest they asterisk the "really important" ones. That will normally make it a shorter list by approx. 2/3 or more. If the list began with 100 posed groups (totally unrealistic in most wedding plans), they narrow it down to 25-30 most times and when the day presents itself, they quickly realize how long that will take and shave a few more near the end of the formal group session.

Hope that helps.

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:37 AM

DavidWEGS
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p.1 #9 · Huge Group Lists

tonyhart wrote:
Oh well. Not too worry, I shall crack on and put my worries behind me!

Oh yeah, I would skip the crack too....

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:38 AM

cordellwillis
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p.1 #10 · Huge Group Lists

Communication is key. In my contract and verbally I inform my clients that 'although formals are important, lets stick with the IMPORTANT ones'. We don't need to capture the same images with removing/replacing one person with another. Time is important and guest will get tired of waiting. If shooting prior to the question is raised if the couple wants to see each other; I give them a visual of the surprise moment of the bride walking into the doors of the ceremony.

Jul 04, 2009 at 04:29 AM

martsmith42
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p.1 #11 · Huge Group Lists

Tony, I've had similar "trouble" in the past (like a list of 50+ groups), so now I'm very clear at the booking stage that I'll do a max of 10 groups. This is normally enough to satisfy the parents, and it means the formals only take 20-30 mins.

Jul 04, 2009 at 11:45 AM

ksmahgrts
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p.1 #12 · Huge Group Lists

there's also a big thread similar in topic here from last week: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/786611/0#7228331

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:30 PM

sejanus
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p.1 #13 · Huge Group Lists

tonyhart wrote:
t kind of defeats the object of having a PJ when the bride offers up a list that dictates each and every shot she wants from arrival at the ceremony through to the first dance...

i had a girl earlier this year send me the most ludicrous list. She was a lovely girl but must have ripped it from a magazine/website. It was literally 3-4 pages long. kinda went like this ;

- bride looking at camera, leaning against door
- bride looking in mirror
- brides shoes peeping out under dress

and so on and so on for pages. I wrote back to her and said a lot of those shots I'd do naturally but if I had to follow a set list it would detract from the photography style she booked me for. It ended up being a ripper wedding photo wise and afterwards she thanked me for not going by her list! win.

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:07 PM

Cathy Yount
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p.1 #14 · Huge Group Lists

It is absolutely impossible to shoot 100% PJ wedding coverage.

Jul 04, 2009 at 08:04 PM

David.G
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p.1 #15 · Huge Group Lists

All of my brides have had a "shot list" of some sort or another, and that's fine with me because it's what they want that's important. But I have the couple choose someone they know that knows everyone to be included in a photo be responsible for making sure all of the desired shots get taken. Makes my job a whole lot easier.

Jul 04, 2009 at 09:22 PM

G Lund
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p.1 #16 · Huge Group Lists

cordellwillis wrote:
Communication is key. In my contract and verbally I inform my clients that 'although formals are important, lets stick with the IMPORTANT ones'. We don't need to capture the same images with removing/replacing one person with another. Time is important and guest will get tired of waiting. If shooting prior to the question is raised if the couple wants to see each other; I give them a visual of the surprise moment of the bride walking into the doors of the ceremony.

But keep in mind...most of the formals/group/posed shots can still be done prior without the B&G seeing each other...then just do the alter recalls after...that way you can get most if not all the shots they want and still spend only about 30 minutes or so after the ceremony taking pics.
George

Jul 05, 2009 at 02:42 AM

ai3x
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p.1 #17 · Huge Group Lists

I impose a soft limit of mine to 10 groups. When I ask for the list, if the mother in laws have been asked it's usually ballooned to 20 so 9 times out of 10 I end up calling them up and explaining. I put together some simple maths for them on the basis that each shot will take 5mins and they soon see the light. With that simple phone call I've never had a problem and always managed to keep it below 10.

Good luck!

Jul 05, 2009 at 12:05 PM

ARDENT
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p.1 #18 · Huge Group Lists

Formals are an important part of the day though I get what your saying about your style. Unfortunately we also have to incorporate the generic into coverage because of tradition. I usually give my couples a time frame something worst case scenario like 3 minutes per group photo. This helps them to be a little more realistic with their requests.

Jul 05, 2009 at 04:11 PM

tonyhart
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p.1 #19 · Huge Group Lists

Hi guys,

Just checking back on this thread! Thanks so much for all your feedback. Totally accept that it's not possible to be 100% PJ, but really value all the ideas, thoughts here. In the end, the wedding went fine, but the formals were as they always seem to be for me, the one let down during the day.

Big groups in direct sunlight with no real alternative, plus baking hot day and 580EX that only played ball when it felt like it!

Really glad to see other people have had these stresses before in terms of massive group lists - tbh I felt like I was the only one!

Cheers all, and don't worry, I'm all out of crack now.

Jul 11, 2009 at 01:45 AM


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