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Archive 2009 · Hail the king of 24mm
  
 
globalkiwi
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p.3 #1 · Hail the king of 24mm


Andrew Gough wrote:
I can tell you that the 24mm TS II is sharper than the Nikon.

Personally, I don't like the Nikon 14-24, but it's worth remembering that the 24 TS-E is >US$2000 for a MF lens!

Jul 03, 2009 at 11:20 PM
mark1958
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p.3 #2 · Hail the king of 24mm


I also tried the 14-24. It is an outstanding zoom and really quite impressive. However it is too hard to use and getting focus accurate is not that easy. The 24 TSE is much easier to use -- and of course you have tilt and shift. I have two coming and will return one. If someone wants it drop me a note.

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:44 AM
ILOVECANONL
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p.3 #3 · Hail the king of 24mm


i'd grab the 14-24mm anyday for a wedding

the new 24L II and 24TSE II looks sweet for weddings too.

16-35, 17-40 not so.

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:55 AM
garyvot
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p.3 #4 · Hail the king of 24mm


skibum5 wrote:
garyvot wrote:

It's unfair to compare edge performance of a normal lens against a tilt-shift wide open: the TS lens draws a much larger image circle, and so you are not really looking at its "edge".
?)


how is that unfair? it is what it is and that is a larger image circle lens and if you buy it you DON'T have to use it shifted. Reality is what it is, if you buy it you can use it well centered within what it can do.

the nikon 14-24 is what it is and it does not have that larger image circle projection.

you might as well say any comparison is unfair because this lens has that coating and that lens does that, etc.


Fair enough.

However, my point is that sharp corners unshifted are not proof points for the superiority of a TS-E lens. This characteristic may make it better for a given application, but to say it is superior in absolute terms you would have to see the *actual* corners (e.g., the outer edge of the image circle). If soft, then the lens is not superior when used for its intended purpose (shifted).

Edited on Jul 04, 2009 at 05:32 AM · View previous versions

Jul 04, 2009 at 05:27 AM
garyvot
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p.3 #5 · Hail the king of 24mm


ILOVECANONL wrote:
i'd grab the 14-24mm anyday for a wedding

the new 24L II and 24TSE II looks sweet for weddings too.

16-35, 17-40 not so.

I don't own the 17-40, but the 16-35 II is an outstanding zoom in my experience, and seems to be commonly used for weddings. It's only significant weakness is some softness in the extreme corners at wide apertures, but this almost never detracts from candid photography, and is resolved when stopping down.

For candid shooting, I don't have the patience for adapters, stopped down metering or manual focus, so the Nikkor and the 24 TS-E are simply not options for me. The 24L II is a fantastic lens, but a zoom is often more practical for event work.

Jul 04, 2009 at 05:31 AM
SKumar25
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p.3 #6 · Hail the king of 24mm


ILOVECANONL wrote:
i'd grab the 14-24mm anyday for a wedding

the new 24L II and 24TSE II looks sweet for weddings too.

16-35, 17-40 not so.

Really, the 14-24mm (I assume on a Canon), and a 24TSE for weddings!?! What sort of wedding photos would you take with these?

The 24LII would be awesome for weddings, and I've seen some excellent samples.

The 16-35 is prime like across much of the frame on FF, coupled with a very versatile zoom range. It makes for an excellent PJ lens. The 2.8 L zooms are the the mainstay of many a wedding photographer's kit.

Jul 04, 2009 at 10:05 AM
dolina
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p.3 #7 · Hail the king of 24mm


Correction, that's 30 200 1.8's and 10 50 1.0's

Peter's a connoisseur of lenses so if he thinks both 24s are bunk then they are bunk.

Jul 04, 2009 at 10:39 AM
PetKal
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p.3 #8 · Hail the king of 24mm


Paolo, you gonna get me into lottsa hot water.

Haven't used either of those two lenses. Therefore, I've got only some impressions based on what I've seen published on them.
* the 24 f/1.4 II seems to present a very minor improvement in some areas of performance, if at all, for a major increase in price.
* the TS-E 24 f/3.5 II seems obscenely overpriced for a manual and slow (f/3.5) lens. Unless it has that Leica build quality. Unless it redefines and sets a new standard for IQ of wide lenses.


Jul 04, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Andrew Gough
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p.3 #9 · Hail the king of 24mm


PetKal wrote:
Paolo, you gonna get me into lottsa hot water.

Haven't used either of those two lenses. Therefore, I've got only some impressions based on what I've seen published on them.
* the 24 f/1.4 II seems to present a very minor improvement in some areas of performance, if at all, for a major increase in price.
* the TS-E 24 f/3.5 II seems obscenely overpriced for a manual and slow (f/3.5) lens. Unless it has that Leica build quality. Unless it redefines and sets a new standard for IQ of wide lenses.


It redefines the standard for 24mm TS lenses, and it is the best (sharpness wise) lens from Canon in the 24mm range. I consider the 24mm F/1.4 different because of the issues associated with making such a fast lens. The improvements in this lens were substantial, when you consider its maximum aperture.

Jul 04, 2009 at 01:53 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #10 · Hail the king of 24mm


PetKal wrote:
Paolo, you gonna get me into lottsa hot water.

Haven't used either of those two lenses. Therefore, I've got only some impressions based on what I've seen published on them.
* the 24 f/1.4 II seems to present a very minor improvement in some areas of performance, if at all, for a major increase in price.
* the TS-E 24 f/3.5 II seems obscenely overpriced for a manual and slow (f/3.5) lens. Unless it has that Leica build quality. Unless it redefines and sets a new standard for IQ of wide lenses.


PetKal - have you used a tilt-shift before? It offers capabilities that no other class of lenses can offer. The maximum aperture is really not a big deal at all, considering the other things it can do. I have the 24 Mark I, and it's a very expensive lens (though still half of what the new one costs)...and it's not even very sharp when shifted (it's quite sharp unshifted). Why do I still love it? Because it still offers capabilities beyond anything else I own. The new 24 is very expensive, and I'm still thinking about possibly selling a bunch of my kit in order to upgrade...it just looks that good. I have to tell myself, though, that I'm not a professional architecture photographer, and until I can make some money with it, I'm OK with the mark I. Some day, though, I will own the new 24, or the 17 TS-E.


Jul 04, 2009 at 02:36 PM
 



Jman13
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p.3 #11 · Hail the king of 24mm


PetKal wrote:
Paolo, you gonna get me into lottsa hot water.

Haven't used either of those two lenses. Therefore, I've got only some impressions based on what I've seen published on them.
* the 24 f/1.4 II seems to present a very minor improvement in some areas of performance, if at all, for a major increase in price.
* the TS-E 24 f/3.5 II seems obscenely overpriced for a manual and slow (f/3.5) lens. Unless it has that Leica build quality. Unless it redefines and sets a new standard for IQ of wide lenses.


PetKal - have you used a tilt-shift before? It offers capabilities that no other class of lenses can offer. The maximum aperture is really not a big deal at all, considering the other things it can do. I have the 24 Mark I, and it's a very expensive lens (though still half of what the new one costs)...and it's not even very sharp when shifted (it's quite sharp unshifted). Why do I still love it? Because it still offers capabilities beyond anything else I own. The new 24 is very expensive, and I'm still thinking about possibly selling a bunch of my kit in order to upgrade...it just looks that good. I have to tell myself, though, that I'm not a professional architecture photographer, and until I can make some money with it, I'm OK with the mark I. Some day, though, I will own the new 24, or the 17 TS-E.

As far as the max aperture goes, with tilt, you can get around a lot of that...in fact, you can isolate subjects more with a tilt shift than with a fast lens. The 24 f/1.4 wouldn't really produce a lot of background blur unless you're quite close to the subject. Here's an example of my 24 TS-E wide open. Don't mind the crappy subject, but I was just testing the ability to get the bench and such very sharp (which it is) and everything else to blur away. I also did perspective correction so that the buildings in the background are straight:



This image is copyrighted by the owner




Another test type shot showing the extreme DOF you can get (I was inches from the bricks), as well as correcting the perspective in this shot, which would have had splaying buildings at the top due to having to tilt the camera down...but I didn't and used about -10mm shift on this shot, with about 3-4 degree tilt down:



This image is copyrighted by the owner
Jul 04, 2009 at 02:36 PM
brucemuir
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p.3 #12 · Hail the king of 24mm


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Roslev wrote:
Pixel Perfect wrote:
How can you choose ISO 12233, mine only goes to 3200

ISO 12233 is the name of the test-chart in the images >_^



Gotcha

ISO stands for International Standards Organization (what us yanks used to call ASA). We tend to relate it to light sensitivities but it really is just a standard across nations. Your hot shoe also has an ISO number if you aren't shooting Sony or Minolta.

My old professor once tested Zeiss and lot of other glass here in DC for the NBS (National Bureau of Standards) in Gaithersburg. Pixel Peeping before there were pixels unless they scanned the images, don't remember the details.

Sorry for the drift off topic guys but I was feeling trivial.

Jul 04, 2009 at 02:51 PM
kewlcanon
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p.3 #13 · Hail the king of 24mm


I've never owned a TS-E what else can it do ?. BIF ? Portrait ? Macro

Jul 04, 2009 at 02:58 PM
alundeb
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p.3 #14 · Hail the king of 24mm


kewlcanon wrote:
I've never owned a TS-E what else can it do ?. BIF ? Portrait ? Macro

Sure
With a magnification of 0.34 at 0.21m MFD, you can get some very interesting macro perspectives with this new king.
Jul 04, 2009 at 03:20 PM
lovinglife
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p.3 #15 · Hail the king of 24mm


Jman13 wrote:
PetKal wrote:
Paolo, you gonna get me into lottsa hot water.

Haven't used either of those two lenses. Therefore, I've got only some impressions based on what I've seen published on them.
* the 24 f/1.4 II seems to present a very minor improvement in some areas of performance, if at all, for a major increase in price.
* the TS-E 24 f/3.5 II seems obscenely overpriced for a manual and slow (f/3.5) lens. Unless it has that Leica build quality. Unless it redefines and sets a new standard for IQ of wide lenses.


PetKal - have you used a tilt-shift before? It offers capabilities that no other class of lenses can offer. The maximum aperture is really not a big deal at all, considering the other things it can do. I have the 24 Mark I, and it's a very expensive lens (though still half of what the new one costs)...and it's not even very sharp when shifted (it's quite sharp unshifted). Why do I still love it? Because it still offers capabilities beyond anything else I own. The new 24 is very expensive, and I'm still thinking about possibly selling a bunch of my kit in order to upgrade...it just looks that good. I have to tell myself, though, that I'm not a professional architecture photographer, and until I can make some money with it, I'm OK with the mark I. Some day, though, I will own the new 24, or the 17 TS-E.

As far as the max aperture goes, with tilt, you can get around a lot of that...in fact, you can isolate subjects more with a tilt shift than with a fast lens. The 24 f/1.4 wouldn't really produce a lot of background blur unless you're quite close to the subject. Here's an example of my 24 TS-E wide open. Don't mind the crappy subject, but I was just testing the ability to get the bench and such very sharp (which it is) and everything else to blur away. I also did perspective correction so that the buildings in the background are straight:



Another test type shot showing the extreme DOF you can get (I was inches from the bricks), as well as correcting the perspective in this shot, which would have had splaying buildings at the top due to having to tilt the camera down...but I didn't and used about -10mm shift on this shot, with about 3-4 degree tilt down:




Very nice examples - Thank you!!

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:35 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #16 · Hail the king of 24mm


epuja wrote:
Very nice examples - Thank you!!

Ditto.

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:39 PM
globalkiwi
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p.3 #17 · Hail the king of 24mm


The tilt-shift obviously gives this lens capabilities the "regular" 24 can't offer - & I haven't had the chance to use the 24 TS-E II - but both II models are *significantly* more expensive than their predecessors. In the case of the EF 24L II I simply wasn't convinced that the additional expense was justified by the performance improvements (& here I agree with Petkal, they seemed relatively minor). Time will tell whether this is true for the TS-E II's, but I really hope this isn't the beginning of a trend in Canon's replacement program.

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:44 PM
lovinglife
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p.3 #18 · Hail the king of 24mm


PetKal wrote:
epuja wrote:
Very nice examples - Thank you!!

Ditto.

Jordan - I hope you dont mind (ill remove this if u do)

Peter - Just imagine - this could be u
I can almost hear the 24TSE II calling out your name.



This image is copyrighted by the owner
Jul 04, 2009 at 03:50 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #19 · Hail the king of 24mm


He he, great photoshop, Epuja......everything is in focus from the duck to infinity.

Jul 04, 2009 at 04:09 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #20 · Hail the king of 24mm


PetKal wrote:
Paolo, you gonna get me into lottsa hot water.

Haven't used either of those two lenses. Therefore, I've got only some impressions based on what I've seen published on them.
* the TS-E 24 f/3.5 II seems obscenely overpriced for a manual and slow (f/3.5) lens. Unless it has that Leica build quality. Unless it redefines and sets a new standard for IQ of wide lenses.



It certainly appears to be setting new standards for wide angle IQ,it looks better than both the Zeiss 21mm and the Nikon 14-24mm from samples I've been seeing.

And who cares about f/3.5 when you have been taking your landscapes at f/8-f/11??

And with the tilt you can turn f/3.5, in certain ways, into something even less than f/2.8 or f/2 at times, or in other cases, turn the f/5 into DOF that seems like f/22.

People used to pay more the Zeiss 21mm than the admittedly high price of this new TS-E and that was MF too and didn't have any T&S controls, so why which lens is the one with the outrageous price?

Not that it is not unfortunate that all teh new canon lenses have had a big bump in price, even the new 85mm which actually used almost the same build and optical design as the old one..... I guess they feel they need to account for inflation since the many, many years ago these lenses were originally introduced (although hte new 85mm does seem a tad surprising since the design is so similar you wouldn't think it would've taken much new design costs compared to any of the other new lenses).

FWIW, some of the 24mm 1.4 I vs II tests also appeared to show a quite noticeable improvement in IQ.
Jul 04, 2009 at 05:17 PM
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