Employer gets a free photographer? - FM Forums

Register · Search · Software · Join Upload & Sell · Hosting

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

FM Forums \| Pro Digital Corner \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 end

Archive 2009 · Employer gets a free photographer?

kabhatti
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #1 · Employer gets a free photographer?

When my employer wishes to use my services as a photographer, I simply take the time off and do it on my own time with my own equipment. The subject of payment needs to come up before you agree to do the work, and that's easier said then done.

Jun 17, 2009 at 07:16 PM

henryp
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #2 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Todd Warnke wrote: When they protested that my lighting gear was good enough...

My point exactly. Thank you. Owning the finest equipment possible is not a substitute for knowing how to accomplish the task at hand.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

Jun 17, 2009 at 07:30 PM

paulhodson
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #3 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Not read the posts - but - are you going to post process - if so when and where?

Jun 19, 2009 at 04:37 PM

ESC in KC
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #4 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Erik Moore wrote:
That was my instinct as well, but now I'm just kinda wondering how to approach the topic without ruffling any feathers. Still not sure what I'm going to do- raise the topic, or just suck it up and shoot. Thanks everyone, for your angles and experiences.

I am a "boss" and will offer this perspective: If you treat it like the business transaction that it actually is, versus worrying about feelings and emotions, AND, if the boss is a professionally-minded business person, it is a win-win for you to make a business proposal to the boss.

You prove that you have business savy along with your other skills for which they employ you -- which may come in handy next time they are looking to promote from within... AND, you get paid for the gig in a manner than is commensurate with your skills and the local market.

But then again, if the boss is an idiot and only wants to take advantage of you, then you have other problems with your employment.

Ed

Jun 19, 2009 at 05:23 PM

Littlebike
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #5 · Employer gets a free photographer?

There really is nothing to "suck up" as you stated in your response to me.

Your employer is asking you to use your personal equipment for their gain, this is no different then them asking you to use your car for their business needs - you would not do so without proper compensation for it's use, the same can be said of the photography.

Personally I would approach them and state I am a professional photographer and as such I cannot shoot these photos for you as an aspect of my duties here. If you would like me to make these photographs I can do so as a service and can prepare a competitive bid.

The other option is just to show up with a point and shoot and blast them with full frontal flash. after they get the crappy unedited un-color corrected photos they will never ask you to shoot something again.

Jun 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Littlebike
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #6 · Employer gets a free photographer?

ESC in KC wrote:
But then again, if the boss is an idiot and only wants to take advantage of you, then you have other problems with your employment.

If there is such a fear make sure all transactions are handled via email and CC all sent and received messages to your personal email account.

I have been asked in the past to violate copyright law at my place of employment - installing applications when we do not have enough licenses - and when these requests are made I make sure, via email, that all those involved know we do not have licenses and make sure my boss has instructed me to do so via email so I then have a paper trail.

Jun 20, 2009 at 12:22 PM

runner301
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #7 · Employer gets a free photographer?

henryp wrote:

For decades my day job was a professional photographer. I never poached on a software programmer's turf and none ever poached on mine. IMO the kindest and wisest thing you could do would be to suggest your employer hire a professional photographer for his professional photography needs just as he's hired a professional software programmer for his software programming needs.

My opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

Not the best logic...

By your logic, you should have stayed a photographer and should have never opened a photography store, because you have certainly "poached the turf" of some other photography stores.

While I agree with you to an extent, as long as the business properly compensates it's employees for their unique skill sets, I don't find it inappropriate for the copy boy to make a cup of coffee every once in a while, as long as he gets paid to do so.

Jun 20, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Littlebike
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #8 · Employer gets a free photographer?

It seems that many live in fear of their jobs and thus bend to the will of their employers and this is just wrong, the only reason employers feel entitled is because their employees allow them to feel entitled.

How many people have additional skills aside from photography - piano playing, carpentry, painters, writers, mechanics, cooks, etc? If any employer were to ask them to use their other skills to the benefit of the company I think they would quickly balk at that suggestion yet when it comes to photography they easily bend. Doing so completely devalues photography for all professional and amateurs alike.

Being a good photographer is a rare skill - just like being a good piano player, painter, or golfer - and as such should be valued and compensated when used, especially for business purposes.

If this company is making annual reports then they have money and a budget. Basically they are trying to EXPLOIT you and your personal skill set for their business needs, this is unacceptable.

If you do not feel you can negotiate a proper fee (into the thousands) for such a job then negotiate additional vacation time to that same value. If they are unwilling to bend then bow out.

Again, make sure all communication in this regard is done via email. If a personal conversation happens then follow up with an email restating all the aspects of that conversation. Make sure all communication is noted in this manner and CC to your personal email address.

Jun 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

runner301
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #9 · Employer gets a free photographer?

kabhatti wrote:
When my employer wishes to use my services as a photographer, I simply take the time off and do it on my own time with my own equipment. The subject of payment needs to come up before you agree to do the work, and that's easier said then done.

Personally, I use this approach as well. Keep everything separate as much as you can.

Jun 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Littlebike
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #10 · Employer gets a free photographer?

runner301 wrote:
While I agree with you to an extent, as long as the business properly compensates it's employees for their unique skill sets, I don't find it inappropriate for the copy boy to make a cup of coffee every once in a while, as long as he gets paid to do so.

That copy boy is not being asked to haul in his personal beans, coffee roaster, coffee grinder, water, coffee maker, coffee cups, cream, and sugar. Your analogy is insanely flawed and in no way even conceivably comparable to that of a photographer.

A photographers equipment does not magically show up at the office, in my case it would involve driving instead of taking the train and hauling in about 150 lbs of equipment - not at all comparable to placing a filter in a coffee maker and opening a bag of maxwell house.

Jun 20, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Brent Ward
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #11 · Employer gets a free photographer?

runner301 wrote:
While I agree with you to an extent, as long as the business properly compensates it's employees for their unique skill sets, I don't find it inappropriate for the copy boy to make a cup of coffee every once in a while, as long as he gets paid to do so.

Real nice, comparing getting a cup of coffee to the skills it takes to do professional photography...

Jun 21, 2009 at 05:37 AM

JimDiGritz
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #12 · Employer gets a free photographer?

I know this wont be popular but...

I've got a really nice car. I spent tens of thousands on it. I love driving. My boss knows I love driving and has asked me to pick him up and drive him to the office and has now asked me to drive him to his appointments, because.. well I love driving and my car is really neat plus it saves him a bunch on gas.

Mixing 'jobs' is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

Jim

Jun 21, 2009 at 04:10 PM

Micky Bill
Online
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #13 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Brent Ward wrote:
runner301 wrote:
While I agree with you to an extent, as long as the business properly compensates it's employees for their unique skill sets, I don't find it inappropriate for the copy boy to make a cup of coffee every once in a while, as long as he gets paid to do so.

Real nice, comparing getting a cup of coffee to the skills it takes to do professional photography...

I dunno Brent, making a "double shot, half caf, semi-dry, mochalatta quattro fromage, extra hot with just a dab (because I am on a diet) of whipped cream" is a unique skill set...

Asking anyone to make coffee isn't a big deal, and would be the photography equal to using the P&S in your desk at a birthday cake party.
Photographing the CEO or the B of Directors for the Annual Report is another story all together, shows how most people (both here on FM and at the OPs job) have no idea about the value of photography.

Jun 21, 2009 at 04:55 PM

Brent Ward
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #14 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Micky Bill wrote:
Brent Ward wrote:
runner301 wrote:
While I agree with you to an extent, as long as the business properly compensates it's employees for their unique skill sets, I don't find it inappropriate for the copy boy to make a cup of coffee every once in a while, as long as he gets paid to do so.

Real nice, comparing getting a cup of coffee to the skills it takes to do professional photography...

I dunno Brent, making a "double shot, half caf, semi-dry, mochalatta quattro fromage, extra hot with just a dab (because I am on a diet) of whipped cream" is a unique skill set...

Asking anyone to make coffee isn't a big deal, and would be the photography equal to using the P&S in your desk at a birthday cake party.
Photographing the CEO or the B of Directors for the Annual Report is another story all together, shows how most people (both here on FM and at the OPs job) have no idea about the value of photography.

I agree. My favorite assistant used to be a barista. The most important part of her day is making stuff for the clients while I set up. Happy clients makes a happy photographer.

Jun 21, 2009 at 06:43 PM

mill4570
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #15 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Micky Bill wrote:

I dunno Brent, making a "double shot, half caf, semi-dry, mochalatta quattro fromage, extra hot with just a dab (because I am on a diet) of whipped cream" is a unique skill set...

Adding to my diet list.

Richard K.

Jun 22, 2009 at 03:22 PM

Jonesy
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #16 · Employer gets a free photographer?

I am in the same position. I do video editing full time and photography on my own. I was asked to take photos here and there and they loved them....As time went and I kept taking photos my flash died so I stated I can't do the job without a flash so the company bought me a 580...more time went and wear and tear added u on my equipment so I talked them into buying a 5D MKII that I now use for all company shots and personal use. My new MKIII just sits in my bag now lol So I guess I am happy to do it for my job as long as they pay for the wear and tear or buy me equipment needed. So now in my job description it mentions company photographer lol.

Not bad since I got a new 580, 5D MKII and a new Mac Book Pro haha

Jun 23, 2009 at 03:24 PM

flash
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #17 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Jonesy wrote:
I am in the same position. I do video editing full time and photography on my own. I was asked to take photos here and there and they loved them....As time went and I kept taking photos my flash died so I stated I can't do the job without a flash so the company bought me a 580...more time went and wear and tear added u on my equipment so I talked them into buying a 5D MKII that I now use for all company shots and personal use. My new MKIII just sits in my bag now lol So I guess I am happy to do it for my job as long as they pay for the wear and tear or buy me equipment needed. So now in my job description it mentions company photographer lol.

Not bad since I got a new 580, 5D MKII and a new Mac Book Pro haha

This is the way to do it. If you want to take the pictures say so. But get the rules straight now. Go to your boss and say that you want to do it, but that you have some concerns.

1. Insurance.
2. Wear and tear on gear. (gear hire fee per day)
3. Processing Time.
4. Software.

I'd propose that if they can cover those things, give you the time off to process the images at home and possibly get you some software or training courses that you keep, that you'd become the company photographer. They save, you get some freebees and a tax deduction for your gear. Also get usage rights for self promotion.

Just do it now....

Gordon

Jun 25, 2009 at 06:27 AM

j.curtis
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #18 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Would you make more doing the photo's then your normal work? If so, you have two choices.

1. Take vacation time and charge the appropriate amount.

2. Charge a rental fee on equipment, or have them rent the equipment and do it on the clock. All post processing on the clock, etc...

With that said, mixing work like this is like doing business with family. Someone isn't going to be happy. It can be tough spot that I would think twice about getting any further into. I hate to have you turn down an opportunity, but just think about it long and hard before jumping in.

Jun 25, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Sass Quatch
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #19 · Employer gets a free photographer?

The same thing happened to me in 1974 (things don't change much, do they?). I had a very good job, not as a photographer. My employer wanted me to do a lot of the photography for his company. He gave me the equipment necessary & I was delighted to do the work. It just made my job more interesting. I don't know if he saved that much money having me do it. I was probably paid a lot more than a lot of photographers, and did not feel as if the company was taking advantage of me. BUT if I had been paid a low salary, I would have asked for a bonus for doing it. The whole thing becomes a part of the total value you have to your company. If I liked my job, I would be as valuable to them as possible, especially in this economy.

Jun 25, 2009 at 11:00 AM

WmPat
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #20 · Employer gets a free photographer?

I see a clear difference between the first product shot and the request to do the Board.

I think that you are being asked to do something beyond your normal job, beyond what you were hired for, and therefore are entitled to some extra compensation. The price they paid the pro last year is the most you could realistically ask for. I would guess that the reason they asked you to do the shoot is because they believe they can save some money without sacrificing quality. I wouldn't price the work based on the cost of renting equipment because that neglects the value that your skills and experience bring to the table. The company can save money by letting you do as much as possible of the work "on the clock". But you are still doing something over and above your regular duties. They should recognize this and be willing to work out a mutually agreeable way to even the scales. Might be best to get something that is equally valuable to you year after year, you can only learn so many new software programs and take so many courses. I'd go for some extra vacation time myself, or maybe a four day work week whenever you do a photo shoot for them.

Jun 26, 2009 at 10:27 PM

ugdog
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #21 · Employer gets a free photographer?

Don't do it unless you are paid fairly, over and above your salary. A few snaps now and then is one thing but annual report photography is another. Who ever is designing the annual report won't be happy to hear the words, "oh, we've got a guy here in the office who'll take all the pictures". Designers get this all the time. The client is trying to cut costs and too often cuts out the pro photography. The designers work suffers in the end also. The whole project suffers. Most people may not be able to put their finger on exactly why their competitors annual report or web site looks better.

If you are up to the task you must be fairly paid.

If the photography is worth $1500 and takes you say 3 hours to shoot, deduct 3 hours of your normal salary from the invoice. And make clear to your boss the cost of your camera gear, lighting, computer, software etc. and POST Processing on your own time all come into play when you quote on the job. You've invested thousands of dollars in your hobby. If your boss wants you to do professional photography you should be paid a professional rate. If you do this job for nothing, you'll be asked to do ALL their photography for nothing. They know the cost of hiring a professional.

Jun 29, 2009 at 07:44 PM


FM Forums \| Pro Digital Corner \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 end