Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

FM Forum Rules
Canon SLRs, primes, and zooms lenses reviews

FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 … 12 13 14 … 18 19 end

Archive 2009 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

martines34
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #1 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

oeyvind:

I want to thank you for the PDF file. I find it very helpful. It was very kind of you to provide the link.

Thanks for sharing.

Jun 04, 2009 at 12:55 PM

Alistair Watson
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #2 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Hrow wrote:
Heresy! Burn the man at the stake.

Cheers Henry!

Jun 04, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Alistair Watson
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #3 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

mark fadely wrote:
Hey Alistair,

Thanks for bringing your perspective to the thread. I would be interested to hear more details about how the "fixed" MKIIIs compare with the D3 that you are now comfortable with? And how the "fixed" MKIIIs compare with your old MKIIIs. In other words, was there a significant difference in focus accuaracy with the "fixed" cameras?

Cheers Mark.

All the testing I did wan't terribly scientific and my conclusions came more from a feel of the results I know I am capable of achieving, what I had achieved regularly shooting with multiple Mark 2s and Ns, against what I was getting from all the Mark 3s I owned and the Nikon D3. All my Canon kit has now gone so my comments are based on experience.

I borrowed a fixed, calibrated, latest firmware Mark 3 along with a calibrated 300/2.8 IS and took that kit and my newly arrived D3 and 300/2.8 VR to shoot some motorsport testing. The subject was race cars heading down the start straight directly at me so they were probably doing 60 or 70mph as they approached and I always tend to shoot at around f5.6 anyway to get the in focus area where I want it. In short, the D3 yielded more frames in a burst in focus compared to the latest fixed 1D3, this was based on bursts of between 4 and 6 frames.

Just for the hell of it I tracked the nose of the car coming towards me with the D3 and shot till buffer lockout, something which I hardly ever do. 18 shots, 3 out of focus. Hmm this was fun! Take off the D3, put the D3x on, 5fps versus 9fps but ok, do the same again, this time 24 shots until buffer lockout, 4 out of focus. The best the Mark 3 achieved was about 8 out of 20 in focus, which frankly on a slow moving, easy to focus on subject in good light I thought was pretty terrible. I repeated this a few times and the results hardly changed. Oddly enough, every 1D3 I have ever used always got the first frame in a burst spot on but for the remainder it was hit or miss. Also, shooting at f5.6 I had a fair margin of error but the vast majority of shots that were out of focus were uniformly out of focus, ie there was no area of focus in the image, not by very much at all, but just enough to make the frame unusable.

Also, when I say focus accuracy, I mean the ability to track a moving subject properly.

Again, this is just based on my 2 years of experience with 1D3s and many many many thousands of images, in all kinds of conditions. I must admit I was a bit apprehensive testing the latest fixed 1D3 just one month after moving to Nikon and cutting not a small cheque to my dealer for the privilege of doing so. It would have been just my luck that the fix made it AF perfectly. Phew, not on the one I used!

I always regarded people who switched from Canon to Nikon as having more money than sense, I thought how could there be that much of a difference? Well, my move cost me what a 1Ds3 new would have cost me. What I have actually bought is trust in my gear. The ability to know that as long as I don't screw up the settings or the shot, the camera will deliver.
What I no longer have is that little voice of doubt in the back of my mind where after releasing the shutter after snapping a key moment in the event and wondering did it focus track that time or not? Did I fire enough frames to give me enough to get 1 or 2 in focus or not?

So, it's been 3 months with the D3 and D3x now. Were the thousands of £s worth it?

Yes. Without a shadow of a doubt. I am worrying much less about my gear, concentrating more on what I am shooting and enjoying it more. In actual fact, a few thousand quid was a small price to pay and I actually wish I had done it sooner.

YMMV.

Jun 04, 2009 at 01:55 PM

Yakim Peled
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #4 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Experience like yours is worth in gold. Thank you very much for sharing it with us.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Jun 04, 2009 at 02:15 PM

abqnmusa
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #5 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

I would like Rob to show us a camera that can focus better then a 1D Mark III
I suspect any other camera would fail the same tests.

If anything, the frame rate is too fast for the focus to keep up to. I see little need for the 10 fps machine gun approach to getting a shot.

Jun 04, 2009 at 04:40 PM

mill4570
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #6 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Hello Alistair,

Very informative and pretty much agrees with RG and my own experiences with the MKIII and NKIIN. I have said all along that the problem with the MKIII was differences between bodies. Some wouldn't focus at all while others worked pretty well. Some bodies responded to CF changes as expected and others did not. Some improved dramatically after Canon recalls, while others saw no improvement or were worse. The Engineer in me wants to say this is an overlapping tolerance issue, but the guys at Canon would have looked there very early on, so who knows. I have been a Canon user for many years, going back to the A1 film body, and I hate to see this happen to a reputable company, but there comes a time when "fan boy" or not, you have to say "business is business". That is why the last of my Canon gear will be gone this weekend. Like you, it was an expensive swap but I am already finding the piece of mind you discussed and have gone back to two and three shot bursts rather than the five or six shots from the MKIII.

To everyone here who's MKIII is working properly, congrats...there is no question about the quality of the file produced by the camera. To others still having problems....if you can wait, then wait. Canon will fix this eventually or do something for you when the MKIV comes out. I am still a believer in Canon, I just couldn't wait any longer, I felt my business and reputation was suffering (real or imagined it doesn't matter).

Good Luck Guys,
Richard K.

Jun 04, 2009 at 04:58 PM

Mike Tuomey
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #7 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Yakim Peled wrote:
Experience like yours is worth in gold. Thank you very much for sharing it with us.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

+1 and the same to Richard. You all are why this forum is what it is. Best, Mike

Jun 04, 2009 at 09:59 PM

Tim Ashton
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #8 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

As someone who will never own a 1D3 or a D3 for that matter I am but an observer.
I have seen sensational pictures taken with 1D3 s in the nature and wildlife forum and over there there are obviously many happy campers.
The one consistent point about its focus is that it ability to make the initial lock on is unparalleled. The fact that when it has locked on its predictive ability seems to go wonky suggests to me that the problem is in the software and is nothing to do with the hardware, yet Canon continue to make recalls for hardware adjustment.
What am I missing??
Tim

Jun 05, 2009 at 12:38 AM

mark fadely
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #9 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Thanks for the time you devoted to this reply Alistair,

I know you went through the same frustration I did with the missed shots with your MKIII. I'm glad you have found your solution with a switch to Nikon, but I feel bad that it cost you the time and money. In the end I suppose it is always worth what you have to go through if you can find the equipment combination that will enhance your work and not inhibit it. The cutting edge cameras we are using are expensive and sensitive. They have risen to high level of sophistication. Canon made a blunder trying to produce the ultimate sports dslr and then the company went through the damaging period of denial about the MKIII's AF inaccuracy. We all have RG to thank for his efforts in ferreting out the AF problem during Canon's period of denial.

I'm sorry you didn't get to use a MKIII as good as the one I have during your last test. Although, like you say, maybe it's better that you didn't. That still leaves the question of why is there so much variation between MKIIIs after this latest fix? I'm glad your Nikon stuff is working well, but I am ecstatic about my "fixed" MKIII as well. I would just encourage anyone with a MKIII that is not functioning well to send it back in for further work at the service center. It looks like the service center is able to fix most, but not all bodies.

I'm sure everyone here appreciates your detailed response Alistair. I think reports like yours let everyone know there are still issues and the buyer needs to understand that some top level photographers like yourself are still not been happy with the results when compared to the Nikon D3.

I hope Canon does get it figured out on the next model, but I am wondering if the next generation will be able to satisfy the masses as well as some of the past models?

Mark

Alistair Watson wrote:
mark fadely wrote:
Hey Alistair,

Thanks for bringing your perspective to the thread. I would be interested to hear more details about how the "fixed" MKIIIs compare with the D3 that you are now comfortable with? And how the "fixed" MKIIIs compare with your old MKIIIs. In other words, was there a significant difference in focus accuaracy with the "fixed" cameras?

Cheers Mark.

All the testing I did wan't terribly scientific and my conclusions came more from a feel of the results I know I am capable of achieving, what I had achieved regularly shooting with multiple Mark 2s and Ns, against what I was getting from all the Mark 3s I owned and the Nikon D3. All my Canon kit has now gone so my comments are based on experience.

So, it's been 3 months with the D3 and D3x now. Were the thousands of £s worth it?

Yes. Without a shadow of a doubt. I am worrying much less about my gear, concentrating more on what I am shooting and enjoying it more. In actual fact, a few thousand quid was a small price to pay and I actually wish I had done it sooner.

YMMV.

Jun 05, 2009 at 01:21 AM

willis
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #10 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Mark, I think Canon needs to get Rob Galbraith to put your 1DIII head to head with Alistair's D3 (with hopefully a fairly even match) otherwise this is going to be a very difficult issue for Canon to resolve. Even if the 1DIV has a completely new AF module (and I expect it may get a modified 1DIII system) it's going to be tested to destruction and picked apart until problems are identified. With nothing to compare it to, it too could be heading down the 1DIII road.
Incidentally my 1DIII is also hugely improved following the latest fix.

Jun 05, 2009 at 05:55 AM

Pixel Perfect
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #11 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

willis wrote:
Mark, I think Canon needs to get Rob Galbraith to put your 1DIII head to head with Alistair's D3 (with hopefully a fairly even match) otherwise this is going to be a very difficult issue for Canon to resolve. Even if the 1DIV has a completely new AF module (and I expect it may get a modified 1DIII system) it's going to be tested to destruction and picked apart until problems are identified. With nothing to compare it to, it too could be heading down the 1DIII road.
Incidentally my 1DIII is also hugely improved following the latest fix.

Willis, Canon would have dozens of D3's of it's own and would definitely be testing the 1D IV against them, and I'm sure will be stating loudly and clearly on the brochures how it's xx% faster than it's nearest competitor. I don't think the same debacle will happen again.

Jun 05, 2009 at 05:59 AM

Alistair Watson
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #12 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

No problem at all Mark, I am happy to be of help!

It's good to hear you, and others, are pleased with the performance of your 1D3s after the latest fix. It certainly is a positive end to what has been a long and difficult story for a great many photographers.

One would hope Canon has learnt a valuable lesson from this incident as well, but again, all we can do is hope. Like Willis says, I would expect to see some derivative of the 1D3 AF system in the upcoming replacement.

I really did consider hanging on with Canon till this new body was announced and the only reason I didn't was because my trust in Canon was a bit too damaged to take yet another leap of faith to be at the bleeding edge. To me, this whole incident is a valuable reminder that it is absolutely paramount for a working photographer to have trust in their gear and carefully plan their upgrade path, rather than always having the latest and greatest.

Jun 05, 2009 at 09:18 AM

leewoolery
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #13 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Alistair Watson wrote:
No problem at all Mark, I am happy to be of help!

I very much agree with Alistair's comments...I certainly would have preferred not to be spending money on new Nikon bodies, lenses and flashes...instead I sold and traded in alot of Canon gear at a tremendous loss.

I may be keeping the Mark III after it returns from Canon just in case it focuses like the D3 and D700....as well as a Mark II and a couple of L series zooms for emergency back-ups. They are paid for and taking a $2000.00 hit on a less than year old camera body is hard to stomach.

Canon will get the AF right on their next pro body but I just can't wait.

Much success,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot Photo

Jun 05, 2009 at 11:55 AM

Johnny Bravo
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #14 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

musclepics wrote:

I think it's RG that is broken, not the camera

I agree. That guy is just an ass at this point, wallowing in the publicity he's generated. It's time for RG to fade back into obscurity.

Jun 05, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Alistair Watson
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #15 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Johnny Bravo wrote:
I agree. That guy is just an ass at this point, wallowing in the publicity he's generated. It's time for RG to fade back into obscurity.

I don't fully agree with this statement, but then again, that's just my opinion.

Jun 05, 2009 at 12:55 PM

Garylv
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #16 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Johnny Bravo wrote:
I agree. That guy is just an ass at this point, wallowing in the publicity he's generated. It's time for RG to fade back into obscurity.

Nah, Canon should bring him in to thoroughly test the next model before it hits full production. Maybe they can avoid such a big mess this time.

And what a mess it was. A huge PR disaster. Claiming there was no problem and then issuing a recall, multiple firmware revisions trying to shore up the AF.

It will be interesting to see what steps they take to assure customers the next model will have no such issues.

Jun 05, 2009 at 12:58 PM

Yakim Peled
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #17 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Alistair Watson wrote:
Either way, for the first 9 months of 1D3 ownership Canon UK repeatedly told me it was me who didn't configure the camera properly, that it was me who was not properly tuning the AF CFns to what I was shooting etc., etc., Then out of nowhere comes the first blue dot fix.

I think they saw the error of their way. The recent firmware suggests so.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0905/09052701canon5dmarkiifirmware.asp

"Following the launch of the EOS 5D Mark II in September 2008, Canon’s Research and Development team has listened closely to customer feedback to develop additions to the camera’s movie recording functionality."

Now, maybe your memory is better than mine but I don't remember that Canon (or any other company) ever openly said that some firmware/feature is added/changed because of customers requesting it.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Jun 05, 2009 at 01:05 PM

dvarnav
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.13 #18 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Yakim I think that Nikon did that on D3 improvemnts due to customer request.

BTW to be serious here for what big Canon made in 1.1.0 firmware is a simple manual control on video recording. I think that this should be on the first firmware as this camera supports full manual in photo shot. On the other hand it will be a reall special improvement if they add 24/25p and no AGC audio.

Jun 05, 2009 at 02:17 PM

scott f
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #19 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Johnny Bravo wrote:
musclepics wrote:

I think it's RG that is broken, not the camera

I agree. That guy is just an ass at this point, wallowing in the publicity he's generated. It's time for RG to fade back into obscurity.

That is ridiculous, RG was given a camera at the very beginning of all this by Canon to try out. He reported that the AF was a mess, to which Canon agreed, but tempered it with saying he had a preproduction model only, and promising that it would be fixed by production time. The publicity was generated by the failure of the camera. Don't forget that Canon enlisted his help in subsequent fixes, so I think it's a bit out of line to suggest he generated the publicity. There were numerous people who reported on the problems with this camera at the very beginning(see the mega-thread on naturescapes at the start of this), who were derided by the fanboys as being incompetent and so on.
I think everyone agrees the next model NEEDS to a be a home run, but the general consensus that it WILL be is hopeful at best. IMO

Jun 05, 2009 at 02:28 PM

Wickedfn4u
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.13 #20 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

Alistair Watson wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
I agree. That guy is just an ass at this point, wallowing in the publicity he's generated. It's time for RG to fade back into obscurity.

I don't fully agree with this statement, but then again, that's just my opinion.

No one will ever know how long it might have taken Canon to devote the much needed time and energy to find these various fixes had RG not been so vocal in his findings of the 1D3 AF performance. Because of his articles some 1D3 owners no doubt strongly identified with the faults he raised, others disagreed.
Either way, for the first 9 months of 1D3 ownership Canon UK repeatedly told me it was me who didn't configure the camera properly, that it was me who was not properly tuning the AF CFns to what I was shooting etc., etc., Then out of nowhere comes the first blue dot fix.

Personally I am thankful to everyone who contacted Canon to express their unhappiness with the 1D3 AF. If no one had complained the situation would never have moved on. My first 2 1D3s were just brand new, very expensive paperweights until the blue dot fixes were announced.

Just my 2p on this.....

+1 to Alistair
I jumped a while before you as I just could not trust the camera no matter how many bodies they replaced. I would have loved to been able to wait it out but after months of its you not the camera and then finally a "blue dot fix" it still would not perform like my MK2. It was so refreshing to pick up a D3 and without really knowing the body or doing any tweaking it was spot on.

Now I hope the MK3 fix works, but again when people were saying how much better it was after the earlier fixes and that mine was still acting the same I still felt it was not at its potential. This latest round sound about the same, those that want to believe it is fixed think it is or don't use it in the same capacity I do to see the flaw.

Calling RG an ass makes you look like a bigger one. All he did is confirm the defect not create it. Canon obviously gives him a lot of weight as they really took his findings serious enough to fly out Canon people to work side by side during some of the testing.

I love where I am at now but sure do miss the canon side too. There is not a perfect camera or lens out there but the Mk3 was working with a serious anchor around its neck and never stood a chance.

Jun 05, 2009 at 02:48 PM

1 2 3 … 12 13 14 … 18 19 end
FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 12 13 14 … 18 19 end