400mm lens alternative

FM Forum Rules
Rules: One new topic per day

FM Forums \| Nature & Wildlife \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 4 5 end

Archive 2009 · 400mm lens alternative

aeast
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #1 · 400mm lens alternative

actually I am wrong. I apologize Gene. the 300 + TC is 3.09 lbs and the 100-400 is 3lbs. I was actually about to edit my post but was called to dinner

I still think that the 300L is a superior lens with the 1.4 as you don't lose AF (at least with the Canon TC), haven't noticed a significant drop of in AF speed, and can't discern any noticeable IQ loss

I am selling my 100-400 after getting my 300L f/4 IS

Jan 20, 2009 at 12:48 AM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #2 · 400mm lens alternative

pcimaging wrote:
Usually when you have enough light to shoot birds such as geese or ducks for example, you can attain a shutter speed of 1/1600 of a second or above anyway. So if I shoot birds in flight I do use AI Servo and I always set my ISO high enough to get that faster shutter speed.
Do you use an AI Servo mode too?

I've tried both AI Focus and AI Servos mode but have never gotten stellar results. My novice assessment is that it's because of a lack of experience plus using an entry level DSLR that doesn't have some of the performance or features of more expensive cameras (eg. the XSi has only 9 focus points).

I'm very curious about your using a shutter speed of 1/1600th second or above. While I do watch the shutter speed, I rarely use as high as you mention. That may be a part of my problem (as well as not enough focal length). I will watch shutter speed more closely.

Jan 20, 2009 at 02:37 AM

PhotoHound
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #3 · 400mm lens alternative

Imagemaster wrote:
aeast wrote:
It isn't even close to the weight of a 100-400 (I have both)

You are wrong. Don't argue with Gene, the math whiz.

Well shoot, 1 + 1 does = 2

dang it!

I find it very interesting that the 300/4 + 1.4x combo actually weighs more than the 100-400. I've never used the 300/4, but assumed that it would weigh (a lot) less than the zoom...wrong! But still, using the 1.4x is of course optional. Not a big difference in weight, but would sneak in under the zoom that way...

I do own the 400/5.6 and that sucker is pretty light, but those with shaky hands might not like it. If only that darn IS wasn't so darn heavy!

Jan 20, 2009 at 03:36 AM

Methodical
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #4 · 400mm lens alternative

My vote is the 300 f4 IS plus 1.4tc. It really isn't as heavy as most make it to be especially with the grip, which seems to better balance the weight. I have this lens and it take very sharp pictures with the 1.4 tc and focuses fast but then again I have no experience with lots of lenses. When the light is bad or not the best anyway and if I am able to get pretty close to the subject, I removed the 1.4tc so that I can capture more light at f4. Plus you can turn off the IS so you get the best of both worlds. This gives you 400 or more reach. But from what I see it is always about good light or being on the right side of the light to capture nice shots. My keeper rate is getting better the more I go out and shoot with this lens. So unless I come across a deal that I can't refuse I will continue to work and get better with the 300 f4 IS lens.

I tried the Sigma 50-500mm non IS and I wouldn't waste my time and/or money. I could not get any decent shots handheld with that heavy monster. You'd definitely have to use a tripod or monopod in my opinion.

Edited on Jan 20, 2009 at 04:04 AM · View previous versions

Jan 20, 2009 at 04:02 AM

aeast
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #5 · 400mm lens alternative

Maybe it is because I love my 300/4 IS so much it makes it seem much lighter

!!! Ya I was wrong....even though I wanted to be right

Jan 20, 2009 at 04:03 AM

redsoxdesign
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #6 · 400mm lens alternative

HI Gail, nothing to do with the lens, but we really enjoyed your pet shots on your pbase page!
Andrew & Deb

Jan 20, 2009 at 04:17 AM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #7 · 400mm lens alternative

Duane, those shots and the detail you captured are amazing. Looking at the EXIF data is very helpful too, particularly the shutter speed and Exposure Compensation settings.

redsoxdesign, glad you enjoyed the pet shots. Most were taken with my Canson SD700IS, which I gave to my daughter and now use the SD890IS as my carry-at-all-times camera.

The group of Anhingas are still around the neighborhood, and I hope they are today. I got a few decent, though not great, shots. It was cloudy so light wasn't ideal, think I should have used a much faster shutter speed and, of course....the lens.

Constructive criticism and suggestions would be much appreciated.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I made the mistake of shooting RAW + jpeg. The XSi buffers out after about five continuous shots.

Jan 20, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Josh S
Online
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #8 · 400mm lens alternative

Above you're shooting at and around... 250mm at 1/800 seconds, yet the images aren't sharp. The culprit seems to be camera shake.

I don't know what to say there. I think it's in your hands/technique now.

I would work on using a monopod/tripod... Sitting down and resting yours elbows on your legs, using a tree to lean on... Anything!

I'm sorry if that advice is useless/redundant... It took me a little while to figure out how to keep the long lens steady when hand held. Just take it slow, the birds will keep coming back to you.

Jan 20, 2009 at 01:52 PM

Josh S
Online
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #9 · 400mm lens alternative

If you're serious about getting some bird shots I really want you to end up with at least 400mm. If you're getting shake at 250mm, you will at 300mm as well.. Perhaps if your technique improves you'll be able to use the 400?

Jan 20, 2009 at 01:55 PM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #10 · 400mm lens alternative

Josh,

Everything you say makes sense. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that I need a 400mm lens.

The hand shake is a problem. I can literally see it as I try to frame a shot. I really enjoy this type of photography so I'm just going to have to change my mindset and start using a tripod.

I only have an inexpensive monopod and tripod. If I get a better tripod, what type head: ball head or fluid?

Jan 20, 2009 at 02:36 PM

Dave Good
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #11 · 400mm lens alternative

I find the 400/5.6 easier to handle than the 100-400IS, in terms of weight, size, and when panning with BIF. The zoom is handy under more circumstances, but I'll attach the prime for capturing nature on the move. A monopod helps with steadying and resting the camera/lens.

Jan 20, 2009 at 02:38 PM

Tim Kuhn
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #12 · 400mm lens alternative

I understand that hand shake is an issue with you but the 400 5.6 is light, extremely fast focusing and sharp as a tack. I have been using one almost exclusively for the better part of a year. I usually use a bushhawk and I think that will help a LOT with hand shake. I also own a 300 f4 IS and tc. That combo, although it has IS, is slower to focus, and not as sharp. Don't get me wrong I love the 300, it is a fantastic lens. I am only saying that I would recommend the 400 and bushhawk.

Tim

Jan 20, 2009 at 03:38 PM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #13 · 400mm lens alternative

Tim, I'm leaning towards the 400 5.6 now. But I bumped into the fellow with the 100-400mm lens. We're going to get together one afternoon so I can try his lens. After that, I'll bite the bullet, make a decision and buy.

I got two shots this morning that I'm more pleased with than most taken the previous two days. Still now where as near as sharp as some of the jaw-dropping images iIsee in these forums.

I tried with IS ON and OFF, as well as using CenterFocus and AI SErvo. Question: should I be using multipoint focus for BIF? Remember, my camera only has 9 points.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I wish ZoomBrowser gave me information about whether IS mode was on or off. I thought I set it in the properties area, but no IS information displays. Does anyone know of EXIF software that will do so?

I have a gazillion questions. Sorry if I'm a pest asking so many in this thread.

Jan 20, 2009 at 07:54 PM

Imagemaster
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #14 · 400mm lens alternative

No, EXIF will not tell you if IS was on. When about to take the photo, you can tell if it is on because you can hear it start up and see the image stabilize in the viewfinder.

You should use center-point only for BIF shots.

Jan 21, 2009 at 02:29 AM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #15 · 400mm lens alternative

Imagemaster, I know when IS is on or off. When I take some comparison shots and view them back home on my computer, I forget which ones were taken with IS off or on.

Maybe I need to bring along a pad and pencil.

Forgive my ignorance, but why should I use center point AF only for BIF. I've read some use multipoint for BIF, but they may have more focus points than my XSi.

I get confused about which are the best AF settings to use One Shot, AI Focus or AI Servo. Many of the birds I photograph are on the ground and then take off. I've been using AI Focus, which I understand the camera senses when to switch between One Shot and AI Servo.

Edited on Jan 21, 2009 at 03:01 PM · View previous versions

Jan 21, 2009 at 01:42 PM

GeneO
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #16 · 400mm lens alternative

AI Servo, single middle point AF. You can use multipoint with a clear sky background, but it doesn;t work well with a busy background like trees - it can and will misfocus onto the background. You can use another single point to properly frame your BIF if you know the direction (like a point to the right to focus on a birds head as it is flying to the right).

Yes, too bad that IS and some other information is not includd in the Exif. I don;t even think the camera knows whether IS is on or not- it is an independent lens function.

Gene

Jan 21, 2009 at 02:21 PM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #17 · 400mm lens alternative

I think I'm going to rent the 400mm L lens. I went to my local camera shop and they don't have one on hand.

Any recommendations where to rent?

Again, many thanks for all the helpful information.

btw, the camera shop recommended the Sigma 120-400 with OS. It's almost three pounds! I think the 400mm L is about 2 3/4 lbs.

Jan 21, 2009 at 03:06 PM

Imagemaster
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #18 · 400mm lens alternative

gailb wrote:
Imagemaster, I know when IS is on or off. When I take some comparison shots and view them back home on my computer, I forget which ones were taken with IS off or on.

Maybe I need to bring along a pad and pencil.

I have the same problem, but unless you are doing a comparison test with it on and off, it doesn't really matter.

Forgive my ignorance, but why should I use center point AF only for BIF. I've read some use multipoint for BIF, but they may have more focus points than my XSi.

If you are using multipoint, the camera will focus on the subject with the most contrast that any focus point sees, which may not be your bird if there is something else in the background. Like Gene said, it works best when there is just sky behind the bird. Even then, I still prefer center point only.

I get confused about which are the best AF settings to use One Shot, AI Focus or AI Servo. Many of the birds I photograph are on the ground and then take off. I've been using AI Focus, which I understand the camera senses when to switch between One Shot and AI Servo.

Use One Shot if your subject is sitting still and not likely to move. For all other cases use AI Servo. Forget about AI Focus. I have yet to hear from anyone that it works efficiently.

Jan 21, 2009 at 04:54 PM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #19 · 400mm lens alternative

I rented a 400mm L lens today and will have it for two weeks. It should arrive Monday or Tuesday. During this time, I also hope to get together with the individual who owns the 100-400mm IS L, so I can give it a try. If necessary, I'll rent the latter too.

In a couple of weeks, I expect to have made up my mind about which lens to buy, assuming I can manage handling them.

Once again, thanks everyone for ALL the help. It is much appreciated.

Jan 22, 2009 at 07:25 PM

Thang
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #20 · 400mm lens alternative

PhotoHound wrote:
Go with the 300mm f/4 L IS, with a 1.4 teleconveter.

Ditto!

While Bushhaw is a great piece of gear, but not sure why folks recommended Bushhawk when the OP specifically wants something "light" and portable.

OP - If the 100-400 IS is too heavy for you, your best next option is 300 IS w/ TC. There is nothing lighter than that and has IS as well as IQ at the same time.

Jan 22, 2009 at 09:22 PM

akilah
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #21 · 400mm lens alternative

I have to second the 400mm f5.6L recommendation. I have that, some 300mm zooms and the 100-400mm. The fixed 400mm does need to be steadier, but turns in great results (despite no IS it is almost certainly the sharpest and best autofocusing lens in that range, and lightyears ahead of anything with a TC). I bought a gun-like mount for it, and that really works as I too don't have super-steady hands. When I overcome my shyness, I'll post some of my pics.

I will say though that when I first bought all this stuff I took some photos, then wondered what the heck I just spent all this money on -- disappointing shot after shot. After a while I figured out what to do, and now have (ok maybe just me) I think are great shots that make me happy with the gear and the hobby.

Jan 22, 2009 at 09:24 PM

Allen Hirsch
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #22 · 400mm lens alternative

aeast wrote:
Here's a vote for the 300L f/4 IS +1.4 TC. I have this combo and can tell you that this lens is one I will never part with. You can get both of these for around the price of a 100-400 (which I have) and the 300L is far superior IMHO. The 300L is also MUCH lighter than the 100-400.

Good luck,
Aaron

Here's another vote for this combo - which gives you 420mm, at almost no sacrifice in IQ, IMO.
I use this as my handheld walkaround wildlife/bird lens, and BIF shooting. (I have a 500L + non-reporting 1.4x I use with monopod for "long" shooting.)

Jan 22, 2009 at 11:27 PM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #23 · 400mm lens alternative

Thang wrote:
PhotoHound wrote:
Go with the 300mm f/4 L IS, with a 1.4 teleconveter.

Ditto!

While Bushhaw is a great piece of gear, but not sure why folks recommended Bushhawk when the OP specifically wants something "light" and portable.

OP - If the 100-400 IS is too heavy for you, your best next option is 300 IS w/ TC. There is nothing lighter than that and has IS as well as IQ at the same time.

Ohhhh, in all these discussions I forgot about the 300 IS w/TC.

I found one that's about 2.5 years old, refurbished; from a reputable company. Is it okay to buy a refurbished lens?

Jan 22, 2009 at 11:51 PM

JimN
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #24 · 400mm lens alternative

If you can afford it, get the 400mm F4 DO. If not get the 400mm F5.6. Efficient shooting is the key to hand held success without fatigue. There are several skills you need to learn to accomplish this. If you learn proper technique and skills you can do it!

Jan 23, 2009 at 12:01 AM

pcimaging
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #25 · 400mm lens alternative

I have said before that my choice will likely be the 300 f4 IS lens to use with and without the TC. I might prefer that 400 5.6 if it were not for the fact that at 4oo mm I have a terrible time trying to locate BIF in the viewfinder of my 40D.. On my Bigma 50-500 I can zoom back to where I locate the birds in the viewfinder and then while keeping it in the viewfinder I can slowly zoom out again. I suppose the 300 will be like that to some degree but not quite as severe. This is something a person might want to consider as well.

Jan 23, 2009 at 01:51 AM


FM Forums \| Nature & Wildlife \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 5 end