400mm lens alternative

FM Forum Rules
Rules: One new topic per day

FM Forums \| Nature & Wildlife \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 … 5 6 end

Archive 2009 · 400mm lens alternative

GeneO
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #1 · 400mm lens alternative

PhotoHound wrote:
Go with the 300mm f/4 L IS, with a 1.4 teleconveter.

That combo would be just as heavy as the 100-400, and the image quality and AF speed would suffer from the addition of the 1.4x.

Gene

Jan 19, 2009 at 11:57 PM

Duane N
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #2 · 400mm lens alternative

40D with a 400mm f/5.6L lens hand held.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

40D with a 400mm f/5.6L lens on a tripod.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I forced myself to start using a tripod on in-flights. I can handhold this combo easily but I have a better keeper rate using a tripod.

I think you should at least consider a monopod or better yet a tripod...it will solve your shaky hand problem.

This lens focuses fast....although I've only used this one and a 70-200 f/4L non IS lens from my understanding it takes a little bit for the IS to spool up and achieve focus (this is just what I've read...again, not sure about the truth to it). With the 400 f/5.6 I just point and it's focused.

Good luck in your decision.

Jan 20, 2009 at 12:11 AM

aeast
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #3 · 400mm lens alternative

GeneO wrote:
PhotoHound wrote:
Go with the 300mm f/4 L IS, with a 1.4 teleconveter.

That combo would be just as heavy as the 100-400, and the image quality and AF speed would suffer from the addition of the 1.4x.

Gene

It isn't even close to the weight of a 100-400 (I have both) and with the 1.4 you still get fast AF (which you won't get any AF on a 100-400 unless you have a 1D series). I would also say that you loose very very little image quality if any at all on the 300. Have you shot both of these?

Jan 20, 2009 at 12:19 AM

GeneO
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #4 · 400mm lens alternative

aeast wrote:
GeneO wrote:
PhotoHound wrote:
Go with the 300mm f/4 L IS, with a 1.4 teleconveter.

That combo would be just as heavy as the 100-400, and the image quality and AF speed would suffer from the addition of the 1.4x.

Gene

It isn't even close to the weight of a 100-400 (I have both) and with the 1.4 you still get fast AF (which you won't get any AF on a 100-400 unless you have a 1D series). I would also say that you loose very very little image quality if any at all on the 300. Have you shot both of these?

Yes it is.In fact the combo weighs more. And in fact, when you use a TC the camera slows the AF down on any Canon body for any lens.

100-400L = 1380 g

300/4L = 1190 g

EF 1.4x II = 220 g

300/4L + EF 1.4x II = 1410 g

do the math

- Gene

Edited on Jan 20, 2009 at 12:38 AM · View previous versions

Jan 20, 2009 at 12:35 AM

Imagemaster
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #5 · 400mm lens alternative

aeast wrote:
It isn't even close to the weight of a 100-400 (I have both)

You are wrong. Don't argue with Gene, the math whiz.

Jan 20, 2009 at 12:38 AM

aeast
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #6 · 400mm lens alternative

actually I am wrong. I apologize Gene. the 300 + TC is 3.09 lbs and the 100-400 is 3lbs. I was actually about to edit my post but was called to dinner

I still think that the 300L is a superior lens with the 1.4 as you don't lose AF (at least with the Canon TC), haven't noticed a significant drop of in AF speed, and can't discern any noticeable IQ loss

I am selling my 100-400 after getting my 300L f/4 IS

Jan 20, 2009 at 12:48 AM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #7 · 400mm lens alternative

pcimaging wrote:
Usually when you have enough light to shoot birds such as geese or ducks for example, you can attain a shutter speed of 1/1600 of a second or above anyway. So if I shoot birds in flight I do use AI Servo and I always set my ISO high enough to get that faster shutter speed.
Do you use an AI Servo mode too?

I've tried both AI Focus and AI Servos mode but have never gotten stellar results. My novice assessment is that it's because of a lack of experience plus using an entry level DSLR that doesn't have some of the performance or features of more expensive cameras (eg. the XSi has only 9 focus points).

I'm very curious about your using a shutter speed of 1/1600th second or above. While I do watch the shutter speed, I rarely use as high as you mention. That may be a part of my problem (as well as not enough focal length). I will watch shutter speed more closely.

Jan 20, 2009 at 02:37 AM

PhotoHound
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #8 · 400mm lens alternative

Imagemaster wrote:
aeast wrote:
It isn't even close to the weight of a 100-400 (I have both)

You are wrong. Don't argue with Gene, the math whiz.

Well shoot, 1 + 1 does = 2

dang it!

I find it very interesting that the 300/4 + 1.4x combo actually weighs more than the 100-400. I've never used the 300/4, but assumed that it would weigh (a lot) less than the zoom...wrong! But still, using the 1.4x is of course optional. Not a big difference in weight, but would sneak in under the zoom that way...

I do own the 400/5.6 and that sucker is pretty light, but those with shaky hands might not like it. If only that darn IS wasn't so darn heavy!

Jan 20, 2009 at 03:36 AM

Methodical
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #9 · 400mm lens alternative

My vote is the 300 f4 IS plus 1.4tc. It really isn't as heavy as most make it to be especially with the grip, which seems to better balance the weight. I have this lens and it take very sharp pictures with the 1.4 tc and focuses fast but then again I have no experience with lots of lenses. When the light is bad or not the best anyway and if I am able to get pretty close to the subject, I removed the 1.4tc so that I can capture more light at f4. Plus you can turn off the IS so you get the best of both worlds. This gives you 400 or more reach. But from what I see it is always about good light or being on the right side of the light to capture nice shots. My keeper rate is getting better the more I go out and shoot with this lens. So unless I come across a deal that I can't refuse I will continue to work and get better with the 300 f4 IS lens.

I tried the Sigma 50-500mm non IS and I wouldn't waste my time and/or money. I could not get any decent shots handheld with that heavy monster. You'd definitely have to use a tripod or monopod in my opinion.

Edited on Jan 20, 2009 at 04:04 AM · View previous versions

Jan 20, 2009 at 04:02 AM

aeast
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #10 · 400mm lens alternative

Maybe it is because I love my 300/4 IS so much it makes it seem much lighter

!!! Ya I was wrong....even though I wanted to be right

Jan 20, 2009 at 04:03 AM

redsoxdesign
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #11 · 400mm lens alternative

HI Gail, nothing to do with the lens, but we really enjoyed your pet shots on your pbase page!
Andrew & Deb

Jan 20, 2009 at 04:17 AM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #12 · 400mm lens alternative

Duane, those shots and the detail you captured are amazing. Looking at the EXIF data is very helpful too, particularly the shutter speed and Exposure Compensation settings.

redsoxdesign, glad you enjoyed the pet shots. Most were taken with my Canson SD700IS, which I gave to my daughter and now use the SD890IS as my carry-at-all-times camera.

The group of Anhingas are still around the neighborhood, and I hope they are today. I got a few decent, though not great, shots. It was cloudy so light wasn't ideal, think I should have used a much faster shutter speed and, of course....the lens.

Constructive criticism and suggestions would be much appreciated.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I made the mistake of shooting RAW + jpeg. The XSi buffers out after about five continuous shots.

Jan 20, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Josh S
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #13 · 400mm lens alternative

Above you're shooting at and around... 250mm at 1/800 seconds, yet the images aren't sharp. The culprit seems to be camera shake.

I don't know what to say there. I think it's in your hands/technique now.

I would work on using a monopod/tripod... Sitting down and resting yours elbows on your legs, using a tree to lean on... Anything!

I'm sorry if that advice is useless/redundant... It took me a little while to figure out how to keep the long lens steady when hand held. Just take it slow, the birds will keep coming back to you.

Jan 20, 2009 at 01:52 PM

Josh S
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #14 · 400mm lens alternative

If you're serious about getting some bird shots I really want you to end up with at least 400mm. If you're getting shake at 250mm, you will at 300mm as well.. Perhaps if your technique improves you'll be able to use the 400?

Jan 20, 2009 at 01:55 PM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #15 · 400mm lens alternative

Josh,

Everything you say makes sense. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that I need a 400mm lens.

The hand shake is a problem. I can literally see it as I try to frame a shot. I really enjoy this type of photography so I'm just going to have to change my mindset and start using a tripod.

I only have an inexpensive monopod and tripod. If I get a better tripod, what type head: ball head or fluid?

Jan 20, 2009 at 02:36 PM

Dave Good
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #16 · 400mm lens alternative

I find the 400/5.6 easier to handle than the 100-400IS, in terms of weight, size, and when panning with BIF. The zoom is handy under more circumstances, but I'll attach the prime for capturing nature on the move. A monopod helps with steadying and resting the camera/lens.

Jan 20, 2009 at 02:38 PM

Tim Kuhn
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #17 · 400mm lens alternative

I understand that hand shake is an issue with you but the 400 5.6 is light, extremely fast focusing and sharp as a tack. I have been using one almost exclusively for the better part of a year. I usually use a bushhawk and I think that will help a LOT with hand shake. I also own a 300 f4 IS and tc. That combo, although it has IS, is slower to focus, and not as sharp. Don't get me wrong I love the 300, it is a fantastic lens. I am only saying that I would recommend the 400 and bushhawk.

Tim

Jan 20, 2009 at 03:38 PM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #18 · 400mm lens alternative

Tim, I'm leaning towards the 400 5.6 now. But I bumped into the fellow with the 100-400mm lens. We're going to get together one afternoon so I can try his lens. After that, I'll bite the bullet, make a decision and buy.

I got two shots this morning that I'm more pleased with than most taken the previous two days. Still now where as near as sharp as some of the jaw-dropping images iIsee in these forums.

I tried with IS ON and OFF, as well as using CenterFocus and AI SErvo. Question: should I be using multipoint focus for BIF? Remember, my camera only has 9 points.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I wish ZoomBrowser gave me information about whether IS mode was on or off. I thought I set it in the properties area, but no IS information displays. Does anyone know of EXIF software that will do so?

I have a gazillion questions. Sorry if I'm a pest asking so many in this thread.

Jan 20, 2009 at 07:54 PM

Imagemaster
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #19 · 400mm lens alternative

No, EXIF will not tell you if IS was on. When about to take the photo, you can tell if it is on because you can hear it start up and see the image stabilize in the viewfinder.

You should use center-point only for BIF shots.

Jan 21, 2009 at 02:29 AM

gailb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #20 · 400mm lens alternative

Imagemaster, I know when IS is on or off. When I take some comparison shots and view them back home on my computer, I forget which ones were taken with IS off or on.

Maybe I need to bring along a pad and pencil.

Forgive my ignorance, but why should I use center point AF only for BIF. I've read some use multipoint for BIF, but they may have more focus points than my XSi.

I get confused about which are the best AF settings to use One Shot, AI Focus or AI Servo. Many of the birds I photograph are on the ground and then take off. I've been using AI Focus, which I understand the camera senses when to switch between One Shot and AI Servo.

Edited on Jan 21, 2009 at 03:01 PM · View previous versions

Jan 21, 2009 at 01:42 PM

1 2 3 … 5 6 end
FM Forums \| Nature & Wildlife \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 5 6 end