Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

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Archive 2009 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

christina37
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p.1 #1 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

I am editing my latest wedding and am so frusterated that I am still having the same problem with underexposure. I will have a beautifully exposed shot without the bride in it but then throw in that big white dress and my shots with the bride are underexposed. This usually happens in dark churches. I have changed equipment, tried diffusers, ect.

I hope you can give me some advice. Do I just have to bite the bullet and manually expose all my bridal shots with a gray card?

I basically shoot my weddings with a 20D, 24-70 2.8, 580EX, Fong Lumisphere and a white balance target. I shoot fast and don't do a lot of lens changes ect. I keep the camera on Program mode with center point focusing, evaluative metering and custom white balance. The flash is on E-TTL.

Am I using the wrong settings? Do I just have to manually adjust the exposure? What settings do you use?

Thanks for your help!

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:16 AM

Saad Syed
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p.1 #2 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

I basically shoot my weddings with a 20D, 24-70 2.8, 580EX, Fong Lumisphere and a white balance target. I shoot fast and don't do a lot of lens changes ect. I keep the camera on Program mode with center point focusing, evaluative metering and custom white balance. The flash is on E-TTL.

You should know to use Av+exposure compensation or Manual at weddings. Using Program mode at a dynamic setting is just not the best idea.

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:22 AM

Evan Baines
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p.1 #3 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Christina,

As sophisticated as modern camera equipment is, it can't tell the difference between a black object and a white one.

A camera's metering system can measure the light reflected from an object, but cannot differentiate between a light object moderately lit and a darker object strongly lit.

All of the automated settings on your camera are based on the idea that pretty much everything you shoot will be mostly in-the-middle. Your camera thinks that everything is gray. So when a lady in a white dress walks in, your camera wants to make that dress gray and voila: underexposure.

One can counter this by
A)Exposing manually or
B)Using exposure compensation in one of the semi-auto modes

Understanding exposure and metering is pretty fundamental to photography. I typically recommend "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson as a good jumping off point. There are any number of metering strategies that will work from spot-metering faces to taking a reading off your hand to manually metering for the brightest object in the scene..... but it all starts with YOU evaluating what you're looking at.

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:27 AM

BKphotography
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p.1 #4 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Evan, the photo world needs a book written by you.

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:33 AM

fotorelic
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p.1 #5 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

If you are talking about ETTL's tendency to underexpose every time there is white or light colored values anywhere in the frame, you basically plus compensate the flash when, for instance, the bride (in her white gown) enters the frame. In my experience with the 20D and 580EX, you need to go at least +1 1/3 with white gowns, but it will vary. Set up your 580EX (a custom function that I don't remember at the moment) so you can use the dial to directly control flash comp.

If you are talking about the ambient metering, which is separate from ETTL, you basically do the same--plus compensate for the gown. If you are talking about both at once, you need to compensate the primary one--ambient or flash--determining the exposure, or both. These are two separate controls, even with Program.

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:33 AM

johnecon
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p.1 #6 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Try changing your ETTL setting (custom functions) from Evaluative to Average. The 20D overreacts to bright or shiny things in Evaluative mode, and underexposes. It won't be a perfect solution, but it will help.

Good luck!

John

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:36 AM

BGP1
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p.1 #7 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Saad Syed wrote:
I basically shoot my weddings with a 20D, 24-70 2.8, 580EX, Fong Lumisphere and a white balance target. I shoot fast and don't do a lot of lens changes ect. I keep the camera on Program mode with center point focusing, evaluative metering and custom white balance. The flash is on E-TTL.

You should know to use Av+exposure compensation or Manual at weddings. Using Program mode at a dynamic setting is just not the best idea.

my experience with the program mode is similar to yours. once I learned to use AV/TV or M with exposure compensation my results were much better. Here is a link I bookmarked a while ago about Canon cameras and how their flash system works with the various modes..its long but it helped me a lot.

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#subjectbackground

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:42 AM

christina37
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p.1 #8 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Thank you so much to everybody for taking the time to reply. I will get off my lazy butt and start using AV or Manual.

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:56 AM

radioblurs
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p.1 #9 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Evan Baines wrote:
Christina,

As sophisticated as modern camera equipment is, it can't tell the difference between a black object and a white one.

Understanding exposure and metering is pretty fundamental to photography. I typically recommend "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson as a good jumping off point. There are any number of metering strategies that will work from spot-metering faces to taking a reading off your hand to manually metering for the brightest object in the scene..... but it all starts with YOU evaluating what you're looking at.

+1-learn to use your histogram, too-here's a link: http://www.photozone.de/the-histogram

daniel

Jan 10, 2009 at 02:06 AM

coffee-black
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p.1 #10 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

christina37 wrote:
Thank you so much to everybody for taking the time to reply. I will get off my lazy butt and start using AV or Manual.

Hi Christina:

There is some good advice given here, but your response [above] indicates you might still not be getting it. The issue is two fold--

1- you have a limited understanding of photographic flash
2- you have a limited understanding of Canon's approach to flash [you're not alone]

Your camera sees white objects a 12% grey. So, when you make an image with flash, the sensor will shut the flash down as soon as it is bright enough to produce a grey dress. This is usually between 1.3 and 2 stops underexposed. The same result will occur if you adjust your camera manually, or us the Av mode. The key is the "compensation" from the meter reading, NOT simply the MODE in which you shoot.

Simply switching your shooting mode to AV or manual will probably yield you little difference.

When making adjustment compensation, make certain it is "flash" compensation you are adjusting, not "exposure" compensation. The latter, in flash phototgraphy, may adversely adjust your aperture or shutter setting and still not yield good results because your DOF or ambient light results will change. Remember, it is NOT the EXPOSURE you are trying to adjust, but the flash output.

Though I have not used the 20D, I believe it has a flash compensation setting. Also, with the 1D series, there is also a FEL button which will lock the exposure output after spot metering on the skin. See if you have one.

On a side note, I shoot with both Nikon and Canon. Though I love the output from the Canon as well as their primes, the Nikon has the Canon beat in 2 areas...low focus and flash. It simply takes less manipulation [by the photographer] to get good flash results with the Nikon system.

Good luck.

>rw

Jan 10, 2009 at 03:01 AM

Marcel VanEerd
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p.1 #11 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

shots with the bride are underexposed. This usually happens in dark churches. I have changed equipment, tried diffusers,..

What is the shooting distance? Program mode (shudder...) might give you amateurish-acceptable results, however, if your flash can't cover the distance, you'll get underexposed shots. A diffuser will only make matters worse.

I agree with everything else above. Practice, practice, practice.

Jan 10, 2009 at 04:23 AM

Neil vN
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p.1 #12 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

christina37 wrote: I keep the camera on Program mode ...

There is your problem. Shoot in manual exposure mode.
You can shoot as fast (if not faster) in manual mode as you can in Program.

And the reason why I say it is possible to shoot faster in manual mode, is that I don't have to constantly adjsut my exposure compensation as I change my composition.

With ANY of the auto modes, your composition can affect your exposure ... as you can see now with your workflow being so slow.

Neil vN
www.planetneil.com/tangents/

Jan 10, 2009 at 04:30 AM

Rick Rosen
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p.1 #13 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Christina,

Your camera's meter is doing exactly what it is programmed to do. When you add the bride in a white dress into the center of the frame the meter reacts to try and give you a middle gray value reading. The addition of that much white tilts the exposure toward underexposure.

Perhaps it might help to watch this video lesson that I created:

http://www.rickrosen.com/tutorials/access/Histogram_Tutorials.html

Rick

Jan 10, 2009 at 04:37 AM

Dawei Ye
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p.1 #14 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

I wish they made a semi manual mode where you can set/lock in your exposure, and then shift the DOF/aperture, and the camera would automatically compensate with shutter speed or ISO to maintain the desired exposure

I enjoy the speed of AV/TV but the variation in exposure is too much of a hassle in post processing

Jan 10, 2009 at 05:51 AM

ksmahgrts
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p.1 #15 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

christina, with no offense intended, may i ask how you've shot more than 100 weddings without a thorough understanding of exposure - arguably the most critical element of photography?

Jan 10, 2009 at 05:54 AM

Sam Hassas
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p.1 #16 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

BKphotography wrote:
Evan, the photo world needs a book written by you.

I buy 1 for me and all my friends. Not too often do you get a superb photographer and professor of the arts in one. Me loves the Baines.

+1 for Saads words.

`Sam

Jan 10, 2009 at 05:57 AM

Aszental
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p.1 #17 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

BKphotography wrote:
Evan, the photo world needs a book written by you.

i agree... brilliant explanation!

Jan 10, 2009 at 09:01 PM

christina37
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p.1 #18 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Thanks again everybody for taking the time to reply. Your answers are very helpful, I am definately going to follow the links given and do my homework. I think the reply by "coffee" that explains more about flash compensation versus exposure compensation is particularly helpful. I am going to spend more time learning how to use my camera and less in post processing. I am also going to learn to shoot & process in RAW.

To answer this question...

christina, with no offense intended, may i ask how you've shot more than 100 weddings without a thorough understanding of exposure - arguably the most critical element of photography?

I know this answer will horrify you, but I started out very cheap and spent 5 years shooting weddings on Portrait mode. Now before I get another verbal spanking, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't trying to better myself and my photography.

Thanks so much,
Christina

Jan 10, 2009 at 10:11 PM

David.G
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p.1 #19 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Hey Christina, don't let some of these people around here get to you. Some of them don't remember that they too had to figure out how to use Av, Tv and even manual exposure modes. The old timers will remember when Av, Tv and Program mode came about (25 years ago or so). So back then, it was...TTL meter reading, white dress in the pic, +1-1.5 stops (shutter speed or aperture) to compensate.

I would suggest getting out of program mode and start taking control. Use Tv or Av so you can set one or the other to control depth of field, freeze the action or let it blur. Go to manual mode when that white dress comes in and fills the frame. This may require an incident light meter though, or use the camera meter reading before the white dress came in.

Jan 11, 2009 at 12:03 AM

coffee-black
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p.1 #20 · Exposure issues at wedding, need advice.

Hi, again, Christina:

Two things to keep in mind while you're practicing. You'll find this in greater explanation in some of the white-paper links provided, but...Canon's ETTL approach to flash is that [by default] it sees flash as a "fill" rather than "key" light source. Not to talk down, but if you aren't familiar with the terms, "fill" means that it is not the primary source of light, rather a weaker, supplemental source to "fill-in" the shadow areas. Key, then, would be the brightest light source.

When we use ETTL in a reception situation, our flash [usually] is our KEY source. So, many people experience under exposure-- not because the camera/flash is malfunctioning...rather that it is performing just as Canon intended. As a fill, it will correctly output from 1/2 - 1 stop under exposed. Add a white dress and all the issues with seeing white as grey...and you end up with exactly what you have.

For this reason, many [including myself] find I can get better results when changing the flash setting [in camera] to AVERAGE rather than ETTL when shooting inside. This, without doing anything else will add about 1/2 stop more output with all other setting the same. When I shoot outside, if using on camera flash, I switch back to ETTL, as it does fill very well.

The second thing to keep in mind, is that you are not alone. Many, many, particularly those that come from Nikon, experience the same 'under exposure' issue when working with the canon flash system.

Once you understand Canon's approach, then get a little understanding of the use of your flash compensation camera/flash control, the system works well.

Last thing. Both your flash and camera have flash compensation controls. Make certain you are only adjusting 1. If you start adjusting both, you'll never figure it out.

Good luck.

>rw

Jan 11, 2009 at 01:49 AM

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