Anyone noticed lately that much of what is posted is almost flagrant copying of others. It is like noone wants to think for themselves anymore. I know some of you put a lot of thought into your work and try to be original but many are just regurging others work then getting on here and self proclaiming they are the best thing since sliced bread. If you are contantly copying what you see you will always be behind. You arent putting in the work to understand the basic pricincples. When the situation or variables change you have no clue what to do. You are harming yourself and your business! You will never be successful in the long run.
1. I have seen people copying even the way people post there pictures. (Wow not just the photos but how they are presented.
2. The same locations. The same lenses and gear and processing to look like others. If you went t to a seminar come back and with new knowledge and create something unique dont try to undercut the guy that did the work.
3. Following the crowd. Vintage tinting because everyone is doing it. Hi key lifestyle because everyone is doing it. Oh wait off camera because I see some cool stuff. I still haven't figured out to use the flash on camera but heck lets do what everyone else is doing.
A study of successful people shows they are out doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing.
I will leave you with a thought. Anyone can Trace..........
Could this be almost flagrant copying since the thought is the same even if the words are different? My apologies, but Melanie said it SO much better. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/724003/0?keyword=2009#6549439
This rant doesn't even start to encourage me to post and ask for critiques and help. Quite the opposite. I'm still at the point of getting the basics, so everything I've done has probably been done many times before but much better. Yes, I often use a border when posting photos. Thin black, thick white. Totally non-oriiginal. I used to design web sites and often did things like that, depending on subject and where it's displayed. On a grey background, white sets off better IMO. My gear? Drat! I'm sure I've seen others using the exact same bodies and lenses. Maybe I should really break out of the mold and go use gear that no one here likes or uses?? (sorry, couldn't help that one! )
I really do feel for those who get "flagrantly copied". There are probably some who'll read this and say "Amen!". Thankfully there are many willing to put up with those of us who are trying to learn and find our own way, our own styles. Would a potential artist never picked up a paint brush for fear of copying those who went before him? Or would he study and copy the styles of those he admires as he learns? There is copying for the sake of being lazy, but there is also trying to replicate in order to learn. Mel's advice is so very great. Take those things that inspire and try to look at it a new way. Put your own twist on it.
I believe you have to look at the forum for what it has evolved into. I, too, am new here. I am in accord, there are similarities in many of the posts. That though, it not a bad thing. This forum has clearly evolved into a teaching forum. You'll find very talented people here, absolutely willing to share, teach and most are open minded enough to learn.
You'll also find a great deal of appreciation shown, by many, for the information shared. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. This phenomenon is occurs frequently in teaching environments.
I left the wedding business about the time digital cameras were in the $25k range. When I returned, the industry had turned into evaluating coverage by how many thousand images you took and how little a photographer used flash. There really was a lot of garbage out there.
I found FM and have been inspired enough to want to return to the business with a vengeance. I cannot be more grateful for finding it and the personalities with whom I've had correspondence.
Take the forum for what it is. If you can learn, great. If you can teach, even better. You'll find many who will be appreciative. I'm certain there are many here who get business simply from the referrals generated here.
I do think that there is a lot of similarity in wedding work. Often when i hear people refer to their style i'm really seeing what most others are doing. That said i don't think that is altogether bad.
Those who start out not copying still end up looking like all the others who refuse to do so.Just that what they shoot looks bad because they didn't learn any technique.
Overdoing something, off camera flash, video light, post processing is all part of the process or learning curve. Or do you suggest everyone starts out fully experienced?
I don't know anyone here who makes out that they are the best thing since sliced bread. Well there was some mediocre photographer a while back always making snide comments and boasting about his gear who talked the talk but had no idea about lighting or composition (other than tilting) but these days I'm not aware of anyone being a prima donna.
I suspect this rant is more about jealousy. You see others getting props. Perhaps you've posted here under another name and not received the same level of praise for your work so you want to slap those who have.
Perhaps instead you need to learn those very skills you talk of, eventually they will become tools upon the palette on which you draw to create an image rather than being about the technique itself. Something to which we all aspire but lets not pretend that learning isn't a process.
Marcus Watts wrote:
I do think that there is a lot of similarity in wedding work. Often when i hear people refer to their style i'm really seeing what most others are doing. That said i don't think that is altogether bad.
Those who start out not copying still end up looking like all the others who refuse to do so.Just that what they shoot looks bad because they didn't learn any technique.
Overdoing something, off camera flash, video light, post processing is all part of the process or learning curve. Or do you suggest everyone starts out fully experienced?
I don't know anyone here who makes out that they are the best thing since sliced bread. Well there was some mediocre photographer a while back always making snide comments and boasting about his gear who talked the talk but had no idea about lighting or composition (other than tilting) but these days I'm not aware of anyone being a prima donna.
I suspect this rant is more about jealousy. You see others getting props. Perhaps you've posted here under another name and not received the same level of praise for your work so you want to slap those who have.
Perhaps instead you need to learn those very skills you talk of, eventually they will become tools upon the palette on which you draw to create an image rather than being about the technique itself. Something to which we all aspire but lets not pretend that learning isn't a process....Show more →
I believe you have to look at the forum for what it has evolved into. I, too, am new here. I am in accord, there are similarities in many of the posts. That though, it not a bad thing. This forum has clearly evolved into a teaching forum. You'll find very talented people here, absolutely willing to share, teach and most are open minded enough to learn.
You'll also find a great deal of appreciation shown, by many, for the information shared. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. This phenomenon is occurs frequently in teaching environments.
I left the wedding business about the time digital cameras were in the $25k range. When I returned, the industry had turned into evaluating coverage by how many thousand images you took and how little a photographer used flash. There really was a lot of garbage out there.
I found FM and have been inspired enough to want to return to the business with a vengeance. I cannot be more grateful for finding it and the personalities with whom I've had correspondence.
Take the forum for what it is. If you can learn, great. If you can teach, even better. You'll find many who will be appreciative. I'm certain there are many here who get business simply from the referrals generated here.
Unfortunetely this post isn't really at the beginner. I fully beleive that being inspired and learning from others is a good thing. Taking a rule or concept and learning it, is cool. The next time you do it putting your own twist on it. What I am seeing from this board is a few guys taking shots and mimicking them.
Some of them have been on here for a while. The hero worship on here is also kind of sickening. Not jelouse but it gets kind of old. Much of the praise I see on this board is unjustified. Sure they are pretty pictures but they are stealing from others.
Without naming names:
Things I have seen.
A well known photographer on here has a very distinctive style of overlays. He used to show a lot of work. Well guess what how many posts on here do you see without overlays trying to make their work look like his.
Another well known photographer has a very reqonizable style of off camera work. Guess what how many people on here are copying that.
There is a guy on here that gets a lot of praise for his photo's. He was called out a few months ago for having a very similar website and logo of a well known photographer. People like his photos but most of them are copied from others just like his website.
We have seen people go to the same locations as well known photographers even take there seminar then copy everything they can.
To the beginners the work on fredmiranda can be good. You are not seeing the best or original work. None of these guys are teachers, none of these guys are speakers at the large conventions or are published in the magazines. You are pumping there ego's and there work isn't original. When they ask for critique be honest and let them know you have seen the shot before and the location.
There isn't one person who can say their photographic style is strictly his / her own. I love this community for the information, criticism, support, and help that is in constant exchange. People are here, for the most part, to become better photographers and help others become better photographers. It's great.
When it comes down to it, good pictures are good pictures . . . this is a minute and trivial issue in the grand scheme of things. Ignore the politics / popularity contests and focus on improving your craft.
Out of curiousity........what does your stuff look like. And trust me, I'm not being defensive, 'cause I know I'm not a heavy hitter in here. Seriously though, where is your stuff?
conscience224 wrote:
exactly what is this based on? i would suggest you do a little more research on the members of this forum before assuming that the pool of talent here isn't recognized nationally or that there aren't photogs present daily here that teach their own workshops-especially since you've been a member of FM all of an entire month
i would agree that a few photographers here have a tendency to copy the work of others here but i think you can make that point without slamming others in the process-i consider many FMers here friends and i respect their talents (i will refrain from rolling out my laundry list of names)-if you don't see them as all that talented, entitled to your own opinion you are but maybe hold back on the attacks a little more next time
conscience, You have some valid points but the overall tone comes off as an attack.
Trends in the arts are common and when they become history they're referred to as movements, like the Impressionist movement or the Abstract Expressionist movement.
A lot of people have been doing strobist type work for a long time. Some better than others.
The internet has raised the level of communication and interaction between people with similar interests and the spread of knowledge and the generation of knowledge is increasing exponentially. There have always been pockets or groups of creative people who exchanged ideas and created work that became identified as influenced by that group. Hemingway and his group comes to mind. Communication being what it is now, the size of the groups is much larger.
With hundreds of thousands of images being generated and distributed in the media daily and over a century of archives to draw from, it's unlikely that anyone is going to do anything that has no roots in previous work.
Actually, several people on this forum do teach professionally and do present at major conventions, such as the WPPI.
Originality is a complex subject and too philosophical to try to address well in a forum post. In any field, there are technicians who take the techiniques and knowledge they're given and produce good work. We need them. There are also innovators who take what is and create some new combinations or twists with it and move the field a little further forward. It is expected and necessary that the technicians will incorporate, assimilate and internalize the new information, in practice, making it their own.
Currently, in photography, I think the technology dominates and creates the innovations more pervasively than individuals. But it's not either-or. In THE MEDIA IS THE MESSAGE, Marshall Mcluhan makes the point that we use new technologies to do what we did with the old technologies until we have assimilated the new technologies enough to do with them what they do best. Ex: early movies looked like stage plays and early scripts were dialogue heavy, like the radio show dialogues that preceeded them.
Regarding creativity: Judging the final product is only one, limited way to think of it. Doing photography is about seeing, conceiving and composing images. To a beginner working at the most basic level, every "aha" moment, every element that opens their eyes and changes their way of seeing, of conceiving, of composing, and every moment that enhances their experience of living is a moment of sublime creativity at the most powerful level.
Viewing someone else's photos and having an "aha" moment or being moved is only one small moment in their lives. The creative experience, the originality of each response we have to the infinite possibilities presented in each moment is true originality and it is our greatest treasure.
That said, achieving recognition as a great innovator in any field is rare and it doesn't happen in isolation.
As far as people raving about mediocre works as though they're masterpieces, if you take time to really see what's going on instead of merely judging and rejecting it, you can take it for what it is.
The lurk-then-criticize method never works as it is intended to nor does it provide any viable backbone on which to support such criticisms. Learn how online communities work. Coincidentally, they operate much in the same fashion as your typical societies and cultures.
tcamper wrote:
Out of curiousity........what does your stuff look like. And trust me, I'm not being defensive, 'cause I know I'm not a heavy hitter in here. Seriously though, where is your stuff?
"Someone took pictures at the Golden Gate Bridge/in front of a cab/leaning against a tree. I'd better not ever go there because that location is spoken for."
"Someone invented an off-camera light. It's been used for a wedding dance by one person, so I had better no dare use it."
"My bride's are asking for a texture and a certain "look" on some of their pictures. But for the sake of remaining original, I refuse to do it because it's been done before. I guess my bride will have to deal with what I am envisioning for her wedding, not what she is hoping for."
Get real! Since we were infants, we learned by mimicking what we see others doing. Only once we are old enough to realize what we are doing can we become our own unique person with individual minds and thoughts. Not only that, but a trend is just that... something that is being done and gains popularity because it's, well, trendy. Of course others will strive to be trendy. So perhaps every single photographer isn't original and unique, but in all honesty, it would be nearly impossible to be that every single time you pick up a camera and shoot.
One thing that is original is each subject at the particular moment and place the picture is being taken. So yes, there may be similarities, but keep in mind that each customer will be looking at their portrait/photograph for the first time. They will see it as a work of art, and love it for that. Not because it's been done and/or copied by many other photographers before theirs.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/724003/0?keyword=2009#6549439
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I sure hope he's not registered at DPR....