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Archive 2009 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate
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p.1 #1 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

A new day has arrived folks. Why is there video on a 5D2? What would you do with it?

How about promote your self? Simple and you'll beat your competition into the ground.
How about sell the video? $500? $900? Glad I don't make a living as a wedding videographer cause I think their days are numbered.

Have a look at what can be done - IS being done. Want to have him in your market? A bride will pick him over you on the video alone. And you can still shoot stills of course. How long are these segments? 10 seconds, max?

http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/

Jan 07, 2009 at 10:11 PM

Daan B
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p.1 #2 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Amazing... I know what I would want if I was getting married

Jan 07, 2009 at 10:15 PM

Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #3 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

No doubt it's a great tool for lots of videographers. But you can't hang video on a wall or put it in an album.

Keep in mind that as these videos get produced, couples are being charged for the extra people and hours that it takes to produce them. I can't imagine that dude is giving that out for free. I think they're great too, but the idea that still photography is dead seams silly to me.

Jan 07, 2009 at 10:21 PM

Daan B
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p.1 #4 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Tony Hoffer wrote:
No doubt it's a great tool for lots of videographers. But you can't hang video on a wall or put it in an album.

Keep in mind that as these videos get produced, couples are being charged for the extra people and hours that it takes to produce them. I can't imagine that dude is giving that out for free. I think they're great too, but the idea that still photography is dead seams silly to me.

I agree... there is a place for both videos and still pictures. Even more amazing you can offer both with one tool. Besides, I wonder what the quality will be when you extract stills from the videos? Doing videos next to stills will only mean another way to earn some money and to distuingish yourself from the competition... At least until many more wedding photogs are going to use a 5D2 and the novelty is going to wear off

Jan 07, 2009 at 10:36 PM

prof_fate
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p.1 #5 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Still isn't dead. Stand alone videographers are.

You're already at the wedding. Look at the segments he's shooting there. If you've got 2 shooters one can easily be grabbing a few frames of video. No costs involved, no still shots missed.

Back at the studio you do have the time and software to edit this into the 5 minute video as we see here. An hour? 2 Hours? OK, so it costs you 3 hours of time.

If you only ever just put it on your blog or use it in meetings in addition to a slideshow I think doing it at a few wedddings a year is worth it.

BUT, what if you could offer it as a freebie with the purchase of a big, fat, thick album? They buy an album for an extra $1500 just to get the video.

Raise your price by $500 and include the video. Costs you 3 hours. 1/2 the cost of a real full videographer. I bet youd' sell a lot of them.

You have the ability to offer a product that most weekend warrios and sally soccer moms won't be offering, or can't offer.

So is it a marketing thing? You win.
Is it an additinal product to sell? You win.
Is it an incentive to choose you over someone else? You win.

I see no downside to this. Sure, you have to give up some HD space and buy some software and learn how to use it. Many photogs do slideshows now - similar costs in time, software, etc.

(not sure on the extracted quality, but it works like live view. hit the shutter and get a 21mp still anytime you want. It's 1980 wide, so I guess a 2Mp image?)

As a bride, would you prefer a slideshow or full video?

Jan 07, 2009 at 10:37 PM

Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #6 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

I agree with everything you're saying prof... I think it's amazing... I'm even thinking about using it. But I think that video took way longer than 3 hours. And from his description it sounded like he had a whole crew there. I'm not sure if I'd sacrifice my 2nd (wife) in order to get video of crucial moments.

3 hours + Free seems like a bit of a stretch to me. But I'm not a video guy, so who knows.

Jan 07, 2009 at 10:43 PM

drew.bowser
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p.1 #7 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

I think there are a lot of variables that are being left out. Machines that can handle HD video, editing software, in the videos that I saw them doing there was a lot of AE and motion work being done and it wasn't at a beginners level. I think the same thing goes for video as photography...just cause you can buy a camera doesnt mean you will be able to produce art out of it! I am a video guy and I work with HD content and it isnt as quick as you would think.

Jan 07, 2009 at 10:53 PM

mauriceramirez
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p.1 #8 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Prof, I love your enthusiasm and agree that HD video in 35mm packages are a huge gain for the industry. Aas a value-add video is a great tool to add to our boxes. And anything that we can use for viral marketing is huge.

But about your statement that "Still isn't dead. Stand alone videographers are..." The thing is that that industry has also had their own renaissance. The gruff old guys working alone blocking the aisle with a big tripod-mounted video camera punching out boring altar videos is outdated and cliche. At least as outdated and cliche as gruff old still guys lugging brackets and punching out puffy matted books full of altar shots. Now videographers are using pov cams, steadicams, HD, same-day edits, MTV video editing techniques, pre-edited templates, multiple shooters, multimedia slideshows interviews, voiceovers. They've taken the bar WAY up, too. In fact, I think its the still photography industry that has the least future improvement potential going for it.

And I don't think $500 for a wedding video is profitable. Certainly no more than a $500 still package is. Users of both tools are destined to failure. At least for anyone who's going to want the kind of quality that would actually replace a dedicated shooter. I watched the videos and it seems like that guy's still using another dedicated still shooter, and is now in *addition* to the real 2-person video team. It's kinda ridiculous how many cameras there are actually, and the ceremony looks like an absolute circus. So there is a couple of issues I see with this: 1.) that even more lowballer types are going to jump in using whatever rationale, 2.) that $500 mark is going to get even more watered down -- remember when it was a $1k? and 3.) the # of cameras is going to get even more embarrassing than it is already -- how much coverage is too much?

Just some things to ponder while we all get our feet wet with this...

-m

Edited on Jan 07, 2009 at 11:14 PM · View previous versions

Jan 07, 2009 at 11:09 PM

scott shoemake
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p.1 #9 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

man, maurice is my homie! dude, you always drop the nuggets of wisdom and I like how you left it open ended as well. this was definitely a well thought out statement.
i'm definitely going to mess around with it, but I'm trying to have more time off and not work so hard. editing video would take me 4 times as long compared to editing still images. i don't like the prospect of that. it would be fun tough. BTW mine will be here tomorrow kids.

Jan 07, 2009 at 11:14 PM

prof_fate
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p.1 #10 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Around here the average still package, with album, is $2000-2500, with a lot of interest in $1500 ish shoot and burns.

My average is just over 2100. So i'm in that mid market. 65% of the weddings are at a private venue (not a hotel) and and have 175 guests.

From snooping at wedding shows videography starts at $700 and you can get all day, two camera coverage for $1200, including the fully edited result on DVD.

The wedding I shot last weekend I had a long talk with the DJ. He does DJ work ($1200 for 5 hours) as well as high end videography - high end meaning all HD, mulitple cameras, up to 4 mics recording stereo sound that gets mixed in afterwards. $2400-3200 total which of course includes the fully edited DVD.

Of the 16 weddings I got last year and one so far this year, 17 total, there have been 4 videographers, only 1 was multi camera (well, multiple people shall we say). That's less than 25%. And I don't think any were HD. I know one wasn't even digital at all!

and remember, they've got potentially 8 hours of footage per camera to edit into what, 10 minutes? 20 minutes?

Depends on many factors - you market area, your price point/market segment, etc.

I can't do a damned thing with slideshows - no sales, no freebies, no incentives - no one cares about them, at any price. Will video be the same? I don't know. I don't think so.

I'm willing to take the risk and find out. I see cheese outside my comfy little hole, and not cats at all. Perhaps your view is different.

As to talent/ability/skills...I shot video in college and was better at that IMO, than still work. But video IMO doesn't pay for crap these days. This may be the deal that changes the game. Why? No additional cost for gear for one, minimal cost for software. My current editing box can handle video, no problem. So my investment is $300 maybe? And a day or two learning how to make it all work in some form. I spent that amount of time learning LR. I probably spent that long working to see if LiveView would do anything for me - only it was 10 minutes here, 10 there.

My first album labout took 20 hours. My last one took 1. If I hadn't kept at it where would I be? Not selling albums, that's for sure.

I'll see what all this means in March when I get my 5D2...till then maybe I'll hunt up some software and play with the video off my P&S!

Edited on Jan 07, 2009 at 11:31 PM · View previous versions

Jan 07, 2009 at 11:25 PM

Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #11 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate wrote:
Of the 16 weddings I got last year and one so far this year, 17 total, there have been 4 videographers, only 1 was multi camera (well, multiple people shall we say). That's less than 25%. And I don't think any were HD. I know one wasn't even digital at all!

Dang dude. Where do you live? I can't imagine that any serious videographer doesn't shoot in HD. Sounds like the mid-90s

Jan 07, 2009 at 11:29 PM

ChrisDM
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p.1 #12 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate wrote:

A new day has arrived folks. Why is there video on a 5D2? What would you do with it?

How about promote your self? Simple and you'll beat your competition into the ground.
How about sell the video? $500? $900? Glad I don't make a living as a wedding videographer cause I think their days are numbered.

Have a look at what can be done - IS being done. Want to have him in your market? A bride will pick him over you on the video alone. And you can still shoot stills of course. How long are these segments? 10 seconds, max?

http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/

The pseudo-trend of still-to-video as a result of the video DLSR hybrid reminds me of every other amatuer photographer who thinks they've got what it takes to be a good photographer just because they own an SLR and a couple lenses. Similarly and unfortunatelyfor all these new videogapher wannabes there's a lot more to recording great video than owning a great video camera.

Furthermore, there are great videographers in my market and have been for years. And I haven't heard of a bride yet that has said, "We're choosing video instead of photography." In fact every bride I've ever know that has wanted great video has wanted great phtoography as well, and vice versa. And that's good for me, good for my business. We work well together and are a great referral source for each other.

And finally and most importantly, if some of the photographers in my market all the sudden think they're great videographers now, just because they got a camera that records video, then great! I'll refer them to shoot video for the clients that hire me as their photographer! The less they're out capturing stills the more work there will be for me. The event video industry is getting a good chuckle at these guy's expense for sure.

Chris Miller
www.imagineimagery.com

Jan 07, 2009 at 11:38 PM

Marcel VanEerd
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p.1 #13 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Daan B wrote:
Amazing... I know what I would want if I was getting married

You.. you TRAITOR - this reeks of treacherous mutiny

Jan 07, 2009 at 11:40 PM

prof_fate
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p.1 #14 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Tony Hoffer wrote:

Dang dude. Where do you live? I can't imagine that any serious videographer doesn't shoot in HD. Sounds like the mid-90s

http://www.fairytalevideography.com/index.htm were at the last wedding that had video. They record on mini-DV (says their site). No mention of HD.
http://jimmierossphotography.com/pricing.html - again, no HD mentioned at all. He's a good photographer too.
http://www.whatsnewsnx.com/ is another outfit I worked with the year. Beware the ugly website, funciton wise. Their package includes 'tape to dvd transfer'

http://allprousa.com/ is the Dj/high end guy

Really, its sad, isn't it?

Jan 07, 2009 at 11:42 PM

jcolman
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p.1 #15 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

I'll stick to shooting weddings with a camera designed to shoot stills. I'll also continue to shoot documentaries, corporate and television shows with a camera designed to shoot video. Maybe it's my over 30 years of shooting video that has turned me into a video elitist bastard.

Jan 08, 2009 at 04:19 AM

rhembein
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p.1 #16 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

maurice, you say everything so well. you rule.

personally, i don't think i could work all my angles and options if I was tethered to the fact that I am trying to capture the moments on video clip as well. my bf has a videography biz and he has tried and tried to get me to shoot for him and I just don't "see" things "that way". as much as that picks his ass.

i bet lots of people (mostly videographers, I bet) will try and create packages where they do both at the same time (vid & pic) and if it works for them, great. not me thanks. and if my bf is one of those videographers... he'll need a new girlfriend because putting me out of a job is a no-no.

Jan 08, 2009 at 04:53 AM

louloulou
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p.1 #17 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

All I can say is, despite that clip being really awesomely put together...I'm sooo glad that I never got a videographer for my wedding! What a waste of money! A friend took a handi cam and took some footage. Which I have watched a total of 2 times. The only thing I'm really glad she shot was my brother's speech which was the best wedding speech I've ever heard, but seriously how many times am I going to sit down a watch that?!

In the meantime, I have wedding photos hanging on the wall that will always be seen.

Jan 08, 2009 at 08:29 AM

jmraso
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p.1 #18 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

jcolman wrote:

I'll stick to shooting weddings with a camera designed to shoot stills. I'll also continue to shoot documentaries, corporate and television shows with a camera designed to shoot video. Maybe it's my over 30 years of shooting video that has turned me into a video elitist bastard.

I will still hire a pro videographer when a couple demands video in the wedding, I will concentrate on the photos.

Jaime
www.jmraso.com

Jan 08, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #19 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Marcel VanEerd wrote:
Daan B wrote:
Amazing... I know what I would want if I was getting married

You.. you TRAITOR - this reeks of treacherous mutiny

Jan 08, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Mike Mahoney
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p.1 #20 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate wrote:
Depends on many factors - you market area, your price point/market segment, etc.

Most in our industry toil away in that vast middle ground at less than two grand a wedding, and don't have Oliver Stone working weddings in their neighborhood.

An opportunity to add a few hundred dollars to a wedding billing is welcome news to the 98% of wedding photographers who don't shoot $3,500 + weddings.

So if they can shoot stills of the recessional, ring exchange, & first dance while simultaneously shooting video of those same scenes why not?

Jan 08, 2009 at 12:51 PM

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