Currently I have K10D with Sigma 17-70mm lens. Basically, while I think that K10D is great camera, it is just simply not up to the task of taking pictures of my two year old running on the playground. The problem is autofocus being slow.
So I figured that I can try different brand. I am thinking of buying used D80 (because that what I can afford so D90 is out of the question). Anybody here that either switched or have some input? Would I see difference in AF performance? I will either get same lens (in Nikon mount of course) or buy the 16-85mm VR lens.
TBH, the D80 is no D300/D700/D3. I'll leave someone else to say whether it's any better than the K10D as I know nothing about it. I find using single point af much faster than auto af, and obviously more precise.
I used the D80 for more than a year and got wonderful results in a wide range of applications from chasing my young daughter to landscapes to sports. The autofocus should be more than capable of keeping up with a toddler, though your lens selection will have an impact here as well. A Nikon VR lens will be helpful too.
My only complaint with the D80 was with noise performance over 800 ISO and low light conditions . . . that led me to the D300 where I (quickly) became accustomed to the better/faster AF system amongst other things. I can't say I ever felt limited by the D80 with regard to it's AF system though.
I know nothing about the K10D so I can't offer any comparisons. I'm sure others will post their views soon.
Welcome to FM! I'm sure you will find answers to nearly all your photography questions here . . . it's a great community.
i hate to say it but I am kinda dissapointed with Nikon on account of the D80. while i can't vouch much for AF(i always uses single point selective focus) in tracking/panning situations i can say that the ISO performance was no good. ISO 400 even bothered me at times. my D40 and especially my D50 were much better at high ISO noise performance, something you may need to use those faster shutter speeds. otherwise everything seemed great on the D80.
having said that............... if you don't need the ability to use Nikons older lenses then I say get D40/D40x/or D60.
I would highly recommend and suggest the older D50 but i fear i may be alone in the "I love my D50" world due to it's smallish LCD screen. I don't see me ever getting rid of mine though because I highly admire it's terrific ISO noise performance, accurate metering, and consistent white balance.
I will stick mostly to one lens so I do not need backwards compatibility. The only thing that I got used to with K10D is two dials for setting things up. Do not really want to give that up. Other than that I shoot RAW only so JPEG processing is not that important. And currently I do have just one AF point selected on my K10D.
If you think there is another camera that would better suited for my needs, let me know. I am certainly open to suggestions.
I think it's a little unfair to complain of the D80's Iso below 800. There is noise, but the detail is still there, and the noise can be fixed in pp. The D40 and D50 have a smaller mp count which probably adds to why they are better with regard to noise or am I mistaken.
I used the D70s once while working at a photographic shop and I thought the screen was absolutely dire. I mean apart from checking if a picture had actually been taken, i felt compared to the D80's screen it was a waste of time.
While I don't have any direct experience with the D80, other than playing with one in a camera store, I just wanted to point out for the OP that the D80 is basically a smaller D200, same sensor, same AF engine (if memory serves me correctly). No surprise that above ISO 800 is getting bad reviews, since the D200 got the same, but the D80 does feel nice in the hand and unless you're going to be shooting low-light / indoors a lot and are against using Nikon's stellar flash technology, the D80's abilities at or above ISO 800 may be moot.
perhaps i had a bad D80 because even @ ISO 800 things were not looking good.......
anyways, one other thing i would have to complain about on the D80 is that the shutter release button on mine and others i've seen is slightly recessed when compared to the D40, D50, and my current D90. made it a little more difficult sometimes to recompose the shot after half pressing to lock focus........ many times would end up refocusing.
my suggestion would be to just get a D40 or D60. for me the only +++'s on the D80 over the D40/D60 were the commander flash capability and the ability to use many more/older lenses.
kenrockwell.com can be a bit 'over-the-top' and questionable at times but i think he speaks pretty sensibly when he speaks of the D40/D40x/D60 vs. D80.
How is D60's RAW performance? I guess if I can get improved AF and save some $ by getting lower model, I may be able to live with one dial :-) All D40x, D60 and D80 have 10MP sensor and that's enough for me.
You say the K10D's AF is slow, Have you looked at getting one of the Pentax SDM lenses (Pentax's equivalent to Nikons AF-S and Canons USM and Sigmas HSM) instead of changing cameras?
As far as I know, The Sigma 17-70 is a screw driven lens and relies on the cameras in-built AF motor, It also lacks Sigma's HSM. While the SDM lenses have a much faster and quieter AF motor that is built into the lens itself.
You might want to look at replacing the Sigma with the Pentax 17-70 f/4 SDM Lens:
I thought of the SDM lens but Pentax is known to have weak AF system so I doubt lens would help too much. Though I did play a bit with Canon system with their Ultrasonic lenses and the AF was very quick.
Since you're on a limited budget and high ISO noise performance might be a concern, I'd suggest a used d40 or d50, with the new 16-85vr. If you don't plan on cropping a lot or printing huge, 6mp is plenty. I have tons of shots taken with a couple of d70s, even printed out some posters that look fine, from them.
If the dials are an issue, look for a used d70S. Noise performance is slightly less than the d50, but it has a lot of user controls. AFAIK, they're all nice cameras. I have a friend that just loves his d50.
The d80 is a great camera. For the money imo it cannot be beat, but saying that the d200 prices are really dropping now two. The d200 is built better and might serve you better in the long run if you start buying older ai-s lenses. But image quality is the same between the two.
It has been argued before that the d200/80 iq is better at 100 than the d300/90 sensor body cams.
I have read some landscape fotogs prefer the d200 over the d300 because of this.
Hold a d80 and then hold the d60, you will think fisher price built the d60.
I really don't know if switching will help you. I have used both the Pentax and the Nikon for a few days and they are both more than reasonable cameras. The Pentax is even a better camera than a D200 for instance wrt functionality and performance, the only serious drawback was flash performance when I used it. The K10D has built in stabilization, sensor cleaning, 9 cross sensors among 11, has semi-pro handling and features... A faster lens with built in motor could help you. Based on my experience, I don't see how another brand or camera will help you here. Your expectations might not be realistic (very low light shooting for instance). If you shoot in low light, are you using the AF assist (I think you have to activate it on that camera) ?
My D80 with the kit 18-70 has no trouble keeping up with kids. It's me that has the problem. These old bones just don't move like they used to.
It seems there are two versions of this lens, and the newer version has Sigma's HSM (internal focus motor) that should be far faster than the older system. I use the D80, and the old screw-drive lenses are far slower to focus than the newer SWM (Silent Wave Motor).
If yours is the older Sigma, you could upgrade the lens, or buy a Nikon D80 with the 18-70 SWM lens. It's your call. I don't know that much about Pentax, but I believe Nikon has a far greater selection of lenses should you decide the 18-70 isn't wide enough or long enough.
I think it's a little unfair to complain of the D80's Iso below 800. There is noise, but the detail is still there, and the noise can be fixed in pp.
Don't forget that the noise reduction can be switched off or on and is reasonably effective. A final touch up with a little noise ninja and you really should be happy with the results.....
gugs wrote:
Your expectations might not be realistic (very low light shooting for instance). If you shoot in low light, are you using the AF assist (I think you have to activate it on that camera) ?
I usually shot outside so the light shouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, K10D does not have AF assist lamp that I could use and mounting big external flash with AF assist light is not that convenient.
I am not asking for much. It is known that Pentax does not have strong AF and unfortunately Sigma's 17-70mm lens in Pentax mount is only screw drive. I could upgrade to Pentax 17-70 f/4 which is a SDM lens to get a bit better AF but I am exploring options here.
My budget will be about $1000 which is the amount I could get selling all my Pentax equipment. The 16-85mm lens is little over $500 so that would leave me with $500 for the camera.
I have a d40x and d70s, i used to have a d200 and d50. I found the d200 very noisy and a bit too large to handle for myself. The d70s/d80 have similar ergonomics and have a good focus system, however the best image quality from all is my small d40x.
I guess its a newer sensor, but files are very clean and exposure is always spot on.
On your budget you could buy a d60 and a 16-85 and be very happy with the results, photographing your kids will be fine. Also the built in flash is very good, nikons have the best flash system (far better than canon)
Thanks again to all who replied. I did play a bit with D40 at the store today and with the kit lens the AF was very quick. What I have noticed that it just sort of moved into right direction without hunting like my K10D with Sigma does. Though D40's viewfinder wasn't as good and bright as my K10D's (which is obvious because of the camera's class). So I guess I will need to go for D80 if I need faster AF and still retain some of the functionality of my K10D.
you won't be disappointed with the d80!!!
then again I can't really compare it to anything else as it is my first dSLR. Other than actually holding and playing around with other nikons and canons.
As someone stated above, the D40/60 do feel like it was built by Fisher Price compared to the D80!
These old bones just don't move like they used to.