I'm now in the market for a new camera for my wife. This is something that she will use mostly, but I handle all the PP work and uploading to my website.
I definately prefer working with RAW images.
Doing some research I've been looking at the Panasonic DMC-LX3 which has some noted down falls: lack of focal length and RAW support. Did the new Lightroom version 2.2 add RAW support for this camera? If so, that would be one less issue to have to address.
2nd Camera is the Canon G10 which is noted to have poor ISO when shooting much above ISO200.
Can anyone that has used either of these cameras, chime in with your thoughts? Or other camera recommendations I may be missing.
I've checked out the LX-3, the Leica version and the G-10. The size difference is significant, so I'd try to see both in person if you can.
I've made up my mind on the LX-3 and will be purchasing it sometime after the new year. I intend to use this camera when I'm hiking as a replacement for my SLRs. I'm mostly using the SLRs to shoot trail photos in daylight and details while I use my 4X5 for grand scenic shots. I shoot most all of my photos between 20 and 60mm focal lengths, so for me, the LX-3 will work out fine. I don't need very large files either.
Both cameras have somewhat complex interfaces. I would say that my wife would have some trouble using either camera, but she is not very camera inclined.
mrladewig wrote:
I've checked out the LX-3, the Leica version and the G-10. The size difference is significant, so I'd try to see both in person if you can.
I've made up my mind on the LX-3 and will be purchasing it sometime after the new year. I intend to use this camera when I'm hiking as a replacement for my SLRs. I'm mostly using the SLRs to shoot trail photos in daylight and details while I use my 4X5 for grand scenic shots. I shoot most all of my photos between 20 and 60mm focal lengths, so for me, the LX-3 will work out fine. I don't need very large files either.
Both cameras have somewhat complex interfaces. I would say that my wife would have some trouble using either camera, but she is not very camera inclined....Show more →
I have and like the LX3. ACR and LR now read the LX3 raw files.
I know some folks with the G10 who are very happy with it.
A few thoughts:
The LX3 is much more pocketable. About half the weight and smaller.
G10 has much more reach.
Movies from the LX3 are HD and really in a different league than the G10.
G10 can use your Canon flash if you are a Canon shooter.
Look at the comparisons at DPR. There was a really interesting of their noise levels at NSN on the digital forum a while back (LX3 won, but not by much.)
When using RAW, the Canon probably wins in IQ at lower isos but the canon does not do as well at the higher isos even with the good 3rd party software NR programs. THe size is the issue for me. I have my DSLRs when I am not taking a pocket camera
Thanks everyone, my wife will be an "Auto" shooter - it's just me that will want to play around with it much more. I think I'm going to have to send her to a camera store to play around with both and see which one she likes better. I might also have her try out a Nikon D40 to see of that is something she would prefer - she can always use my 50mm lenns on it to keep it small or I can add a small zoom lens on that for her.
I bought a G10 over an LX3 in great part because it has great manual controls... as good as a low-end DSLR. If I were shooting mostly in auto mode (and if I could live with 60mm on the long end), I probably would have went with the LX3 instead.
FWIW, LR's (and ACR's) handling of noise with RAW files is horrible. The grain is enormous and you can't get rid of all the chroma noise above ISO400. If you're shooting ISO200 or lower it's not a big deal. ISO400 and up JPEGs look superior in terms of noise and sharpness. (This is also not a problem if you're shooting auto mode, cause you can't shoot RAW, then.)
I'll second the E-420 suggestion, too. By the numbers it doesn't look like it's much smaller than a D40/D60, but it is indeed usefully smaller, and its kit lens is better than a kit lens has any right being. And that's saying nothing about the 25/2.8 pancake. Also useful, Olympus does JPEGs great right out of the camera. If you're near a Circuit City you might want to stop by and check one out.
I own the G9 and LX3. I would recommend the LX3. It is the only P&S that I have owned that is a true available light camera for most normal conditions. It has excellent RAW support in ACR where it automatically is corrected optically and for CA. The Canon is great at low ISO and has more detail. But, this advantage is lost by ISO 200 / 400 range. Canon has a f/2.8-4.8 lens ... very slow.
G Lund wrote:
Just got a G10 and took this with about my fourth shot... nothing against the LX-3 but try getting a 20x24 print of something like this at any iso under any conditions from a 10 mp camera. George
Who in their right mind would use a P&S for 20x24 photos?
I work at Ritz Camera and I've been considering the LX3, G10 and Oly 410 + 25/2.8 Pancake Lens.
We only stock the 410, so I've been doing my hands-on research elsewhere, but the G10 exhibited a large amount of noise in Circut City under their horrible lights. Which is not surprising as it had to be bumped up to 800 ISO to get anything usable.
The 410 seems to be a better option although at high ISOs it too exhibits more than acceptable noise, but not quite as bad as the G10 due to the larger sensor of the 410.
The LX3 is a great camera and seems to be well built (I know this because someone came into the store with one) and I love the Panasonic menu system and image quality.
I would never go above about at 12x18 with any one of these cameras so a resolution of 10 mega pixels is plenty. In my research and playing with literally hundreds of cameras at the store, anything above 8 mega pixels in a small sensor camera is way overkill and greatly increases the amount of noise at anything above 200 ISO on all of them.
My previous reservation with the LX3 was that there was no LR or ACR RAW support, but now that doesn't seem to be an issue. If I were you, I would pick up the LX3 for a pocket-sized camera. If you're looking for something lightweight and slightly more powerful and offering more expandability as your wife's skill level and interest increases, the Olympus 410 with the 25/2.8 Pancake. Then, if you wanted to add lenses and/or flashes later, you'd have the option.
chez wrote:
Who in their right mind would use a P&S for 20x24 photos?
A close friend of mine has 3 different 20x24 landscape pictures throughout her house taken with a G10....I have two in my home taken with my 5D and 24-70L lens and my 24-105L lens...we use the same lab for printing. I would bet anyone standing as close to or as far from any of the five photos would only be guessing as to which camera took which picture, and I dont recall for sure but if memory serves the last thing I bet on was the 1978 superbowl...so I think it's safe to say I'm not a betting man.
I'm sure most of the cameras mentioned are good camera for what they are...I have not used any of the others so I cant compare one to the other. I'm sure they all have strengths and weaknesses.
Last but not least....my wife laughed a bit and asked when the last time was that anyone said I was anywhere near being "in my right mind"
George
Thanks everyone......I know it would be a bit of a toss up. I found someone selling a Brand new G10 in the Buy & Sell forums for under $400 so I bit the bullet and bought it. Figured it would make an easy extra XMas gift for my wife - worst case scenero is if she does not like it, I can resell it.
I have really been torn between the G10 and the LX3. If I was going to be the one using it I would probably have leaned toward the LX3, but since it will be my wife - in auto mode...I thought the G10 would probably be the best bet...aggain I think either will be fine.
I think you'll be happy with either, Michael. They're both excellent cameras.
You might want to peruse the manual now if you want to know what all the bits and pieces do before you get it. This is the first camera I've had to touch the manual for since my very first SLR. You won't believe the number of options they crammed into a P&S!
I just got both for christmas! The LX3 looked to be in short supply, but was less expensive than the G10 (not now). My wife ordered the LX3 not anticipating a christmas arrival, and the G10 as backup. Anyway I'm an old SLR film user just getting into digital beyond our casios that fit in a shirt pocket and have served us well.
The LX seems a great camera. I love the 24mm!!! The lens has 2 switches for focus and format (4:3,3:2,16:9), the body has an on/off, selector wheel, and shutter button. pretty simple to pick up and use with everything in auto.
The G10 has 28mm, and is there a big difference from that to 24. The G10 has more telephoto out to 140mm, vs I think 60 for the LX3. The G10 has more dial options and looks more intimidating for a novice, IMHO.
Although both are about the same size if you had to put them in a box, the LX3 appears and feels about half the size of the G10, and weighs considerably less. The G10 feels more rugged, but the LX3 is made to normal camera standards. Both have excellent fit, finish and materials.
I'm keeping both! The LX3 is going to be great for travel and family. I miss my Canon 17mm from my old F1. The lens is 2.0 so should be better in low light than the G10. The G10 covers the midrange well and should also be good for travel scenes and general work.
I'm thinking of each of these cameras like a lens for a SLR. Two different ranges, smaller size to lug around, less expensive, and whats the odds of both cameras failing?.
My wife likes the LX3 better and doesn't want to touch the G10. I have the LX3 in silver which makes it look friendlier. I can put the LX3 in full auto and all she has to do is turn it on. The LX3 has enough manual controls to keep most people happy if you want to use them.
As an aside has anyone used the telephoto lens for the G10, or G9. I guess this is equivalent to the old tele-extenders on the film SLRs. Guess curious how they work and if a PITA or not.
My wife was very nice to me this Christmas and bought the LX3 for me. As the others have found, the image quality is great, the features were well placed and the camera works very well for a photographer. I think it is easy enough to place in P mode and hand to my wife. But like I said before the array of buttons and menus would be too much for some people. I think she would be happier with an Canon SD series camera if the camera were just for her.
But this camera is for me and I love it.
Here are a couple LX 3 images.
This one processed in adobe LR 2.2 at ISO 80
A 100% crop from the above image
This one is an in camera jpeg at ISO 80 with the Nature film setting selected.
And finally the LX3 next to a Rebel 2000 with a 28-70 f2.8 Tokina mounted.
