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Archive 2008 · Church rules ?

Paula
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p.1 #1 · Church rules ?

I did a wedding a couple of weeks ago at a Catholic church and the rules for the pro photographers were very odd IME. There was no flash allowed (no big deal - not many churches around here let you use flash) but what was a big deal was they made me stand in the very back corner of the large church and I wasn't allowed to move at all during the ceremony or during the processionals. The church weddding cordinator literally stood beside me the entire time and grabbed my arm whenever I tried to shift so much as a foot. I was at such an angle I couldn't even get a shot down the aisles and the church itself was huge and not that sloped so I basically couldn't even get many shots over people's heads even though I used a long lens. The funny thing was that they allowed the videographer to sit right beside the alter and film. And the guests were allowed to use flash and there were probable eight or ten guests with Rebels or equivalent type DSLR's who were jumping into the aisle and shooting all throught the ceremony. After the ceremony when I was shooting formals and at the reception guests approached me and asked if I had actually missed the ceremony for some reason because nobody had even seen me in the church during the wedding and everybody had wondered where the pro photographer was.

This was actually my first Catholic wedding having done mostly Baptist and beach nondenominational weddings. Is this the norm for a Catholic church? I would really like to discuss the situation and rationale for the rules with the priest sometime. I am a religious person myself so I always try to respect that in a church wedding the event is first and foremost a religious ceremony and I would never do anything to compromise that aspect of the event. But discriminating against the pro photographer in this way is to me rediculous.... I really hope that for this wedding some of the uncle Bobs were able to capture some pictures of the actual ceremony because I wasn't able to...

Nov 26, 2008 at 12:01 AM

chaloux
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p.1 #2 · Church rules ?

Should've chloroformed the coordinator.

Nov 26, 2008 at 12:10 AM

ksmahgrts
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p.1 #3 · Church rules ?

sorry to hear it was such a challenge. honestly the only thing typical is that nothing is typical.

i've gone into places of worship that i expected to be super-strict and they were the most lenient (and vice versa) - this is why it's SO important to discuss the restrictions in your initial consultation. make sure it's on your info sheet and if the couples don't know the specifics in that first meeting, make sure they get back to you so you're not going in blind.

good luck.

Nov 26, 2008 at 01:26 AM

gillyohan
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p.1 #4 · Church rules ?

+1

Always speak to the coordinator at the church ASAP, so that there are no surprises for you or the B&G

Nov 26, 2008 at 01:39 AM

GCasey
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p.1 #5 · Church rules ?

Paula,
There are about as many 'rules' as there are photographers, officiants, churches, and other venues. Check out this site: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/709337

The bottom line seems to be: check out the policies of the person performing the ceremony, make certain that the bride knows those policies and is comfortable with them. Obviously, you can't photograph what you are not allowed to photograph.

ksmahgrts' comments are valid. Agree on whether you or the bride check ouit the policies so both of you do not go in blind.

Nov 26, 2008 at 01:40 AM

RedWhiteandRed
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p.1 #6 · Church rules ?

Best thing is to ignore the cow and get on with the job. Reason and patience always prevail - and, those were not the church rules they were merely manifestations of a capricious paranoia.

Nov 26, 2008 at 02:13 AM

ksmahgrts
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p.1 #7 · Church rules ?

apparently you don't know your bible red.

i'm pretty sure in the gospel according to fong it says something somewhere about no flash photography.

Nov 26, 2008 at 02:16 AM

Brad Barr
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p.1 #8 · Church rules ?

no fong doctrine just dictates that your images all be underexposed and red.......

Nov 26, 2008 at 02:38 AM

Paula
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p.1 #9 · Church rules ?

When I met with the bride and groom before the ceremony they had told me the rule about no flash and that was fine (and typical for this area - almost no churches around here allow flash during the ceremony). It wasn't until I went to the rehersal the night before the wedding that I found out about the "photographer has to stand in the back of the church and not near the aisle" rule. The bride and groom did not know about that one either. The church was not their home parish but one they had picked because it was larger and more picturesque. The priest did not attend the rehersal and did not actually show up until minutes before the actual ceremony so we couldn't discuss it either. It was actually an unusual ceremony in that it was a dual ceremony in a Roman Catholic church with a priest and another reverend (a Salvation Armiest - evidently a Methodist offshoot) doing the service. The priest was in charge of the policies however. I never even knew that the Roman Catholics did dual ceremonies with a full mass before... It was a very different wedding...

Lesson learned I guess. I have never independently contacted an officiant before a ceremony. I usually just meet with them at the rehersal and have always been able to work things out there. This is the first time I have had an officiant not attend a rehersal and/or been suprised by more restrictive rules at a rehersal. The bride and groom were actually fine about me not getting the wedding ceremony pictures because they knew I was constrained by the church rules. In the future I don't know if I would just turn down weddings at this church, or just make sure the bride and groom knew the limitations...

Nov 26, 2008 at 03:03 AM

Chris Cooke
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p.1 #10 · Church rules ?

Lots of catholic churches have such restrictions on photographers, and the ironic part is that a lot of these rules were put in place because of the guests with digi rebels etc, but the guests dont get told to put their cameras away.
I did a wedding where I couldnt use flash (which is typical and not a big deal), the other thing was I could not be anywhere but the balcony. Luckily I had a 300mm with me and was using a crop body so everything turned out. The funny/great thing is that the priest (a grumpy old irish one) told all the guests he will ask them leave if they dare try and take a picture during such a sacred ceremony.

After that wedding I started asking all couples for all information on the church or other site. I want to make sure I have all the proper gear and that I know what retrictions I will be up against. I always ask the priest/minister/officiant/ or other person of honor the day of if they have any restrictions for me and if there is anything I can do to make the ceremony easier for them. Sometimes I even make deals with them and I get to have a little more freedom. You respect them (and sometimes kiss their ass) and they give a little back (usually without the ass kissing!)

Nov 26, 2008 at 03:08 AM

jefferies1
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p.1 #11 · Church rules ?

I do a lot of Catholic weddings and it can vary from the Priest pulling me up on the alter to get a better shot...serious, to stand 2 rows from the exit and if we see you move the wedding will be stopped. Most have allowed movement around the side of the venue which I like and flash for the entrance and exit only, again the only time I really need it. A lot of the time it is not the Priest decision but the person running the church.

Nov 26, 2008 at 04:20 PM

asparkes
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p.1 #12 · Church rules ?

I get similar rules all the time. Usually they can be bent, though. I do have wording in my contract that forgives me of any missed opportunities do to a venues "policies or restrictions regarding professional photography".

Nov 26, 2008 at 04:35 PM

camey
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p.1 #13 · Church rules ?

It doesn't sound that unusual to me. It varies from wedding to wedding but I have been as constrained as you mentioned, stuck in a fixed position at the back of the church. I came prepared with long glass and a tripod and did the best I could, the b&g were very happy with the pictures. Only problem was I didn't set the tripod high enough, and the bride was Sudanese (the tallest people in the world). At times in the ceremony when everyone stood up I would have needed a stepladder to take photos, one of the guests was 7'2"!

As others have said, talk to the coordinator and the minister to find out up front what the rules are. Just because it's a Catholic ceremony doesn't mean it's necessarily that constrained, I had one Catholic minister apologise to me in advance if he got in my way to said to let him know if I needed him to move ... LMAO over that one.

These days flash shouldn't be an issue, a D3 with an 85mm f/1.4 could probably take half decent pictures with the lenscap still on

Nov 26, 2008 at 05:39 PM

Paula
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p.1 #14 · Church rules ?

Yes height was an issue at this wedding - I would have loved it if they would have allowed me in a choir loft (this church didn't have one). I swear it was a family of giants. Even the bride was 6ft tall. And I am only 5ft tall

I had up to 300 mm lens with me so that wasn't the issue (and I had 400 mm in the car if I really felt I needed it) but the fact was I really couldn't see over people's heads! Many churchs are sloped towards the alter but this one wasn't. I had asked the coordinator if I could bring in a small step ladder that I carry with me and was told unequivically no. The no flash was a total non issue - I have fast glass and work around that all the time (thanks Kevin Kubota for your digital fill flash and Neat Image

. What bugged me was that I was the only one with limitations - the guests had a literal camera free for all going and the videographer did what he wanted. Makes no sense...

Nov 26, 2008 at 06:55 PM

Chris Cooke
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p.1 #15 · Church rules ?

I know some photographers have their assistants/second shooters sit in the congregation and act like a guest. Its not rare to see guests with DSLRs and decent lenses so they fit right in.

Nov 26, 2008 at 07:26 PM

camey
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p.1 #16 · Church rules ?

I think most couples understand that the photographer has to play by the rules. The guests are there for one wedding but the photographer may be back the next week with another couple.

In the wedding I was referring to I have several shots of the bride and groom surrounded by guests climbing up onto the altar and firing their point-and-shoots with flash. Not much I can do, I'm there to photograph the wedding, not corral the guests.

What was really funny about the height was the Sudanese bride was about 5'11 but her Irish-American groom was only 5'7". At the reception her brother (6'9") was dancing with the groom's mum (about 4'11") and the groom was dancing with her mum (6'4"). The tallest guest there was a former NBA player named Manut Bol who pretty much dwarfed everyone at 7'2". When I first saw him standing next to the DJ he didn't seem that tall, maybe a head taller than the DJ. When I got closer though I realized the DJ himself was about 6'8". I've never felt so short in all my life

Nov 26, 2008 at 08:23 PM

RedWhiteandRed
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p.1 #17 · Church rules ?

Manut Bol is legend.

Nov 26, 2008 at 08:39 PM

fotorelic
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p.1 #18 · Church rules ?

Lots of good advice about trying to negotiate beforehand which I won't repeat. I will say, though, that the idea of turning down weddings with restrictive rules is just as silly as letting guests do what they will while restricting the pro--my opinion only.

If I am stuck with these kind of restrictions, I will, in turn, firmly ask for time after the ceremony for re-creations, with the minister in his (their) robes. It would be unreasonable for him/them to deny this, given the restrictions. There are some Presbyterian churches that don't allow photography AT ALL during the ceremony.

I know many photographers think that it is a waste to do any re-creations because it isn't happening for real. I disagree. Any re-creations you can do are bound to be better than the possibly poor shots you get from the back of the church. The thing about doing re-creations, and the reason I think some are so against it, is that you have to be organized about it. You have to know what moments you want to re-create, know how you are going to light (or not light) them, and call upon the appropriate people to do them. All this cuts into formals time, which puts extra pressure upon you, the photographer. Of course, you can't shoot as many different images, perhaps, but if you cover the highights well, I can't see how a couple would dislike the images.

You will be surprised at how the glow is still with the couple, and it will reappear in the re-created photos if you give it a chance. If I re-create highlights, it usually doesn't take me more than 10 minutes.

Nov 26, 2008 at 09:04 PM

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p.1 #19 · Church rules ?

RedWhiteandRed wrote:
Best thing is to ignore the cow and get on with the job. Reason and patience always prevail - and, those were not the church rules they were merely manifestations of a capricious paranoia.

I assume you are of the sect that says ignore the rules and do as you please? Then that's the exact attitude that causes such rules to be enacted in the first place!

It is NOT your friggin day - it's the brides. While you may be getting paid, you are a GUEST in the church. I am not a big fan of organized religion in general, but if there is a god and a hell I won't be sent there for disrespecting the rules of the Pastor/Church. I'll go to hell for better reasons than that!

I've been told a few times (by the bride) that the officiant allows no photography or very limited access. I then make it a point to visit the church and meet the priest, give him a card, get a tour of where the bride enters, etc. SHOW SOME RESPECT is all it take - and act like a professional.

If you go in there acting like a selfish kid that will get what they want by hook or crook then you're going to ruin it for us - and all the other brides at that church!

Nov 27, 2008 at 09:28 PM

RedWhiteandRed
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p.1 #20 · Church rules ?

prof_fate wrote:
It is NOT your friggin day - it's the brides.

Yes, and that silliness of rules and regalia generally impinge on the wishes of the couple. Also, the mothers are usually ruling the roost.

The best approach when faced with unruly rules is to march boldly and ignore those that may stand in the way of reason. Always remember - the actual wedding is likely the least important aspect of any wedding.

Nov 27, 2008 at 09:58 PM

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