I don't see any tech specs on Canon site regarding sound recording: unless MK2 has a built-in mic for voice annotation like 1 series, or a stereo mini-jack input, I would guess that you'll be capturing audio to a separate recorder, and syncing in post.
With that in mind, there are dozens of stereo mics available for every application & price range:
Can you provide some details about your intended application, and budget?
General purpose stereo recording such as: street / family / weddings
Pro recording quality for ENG / film or television dramatic
Either way, you want a mic with good off-axis rejection spec, along with low handling and wind noise.
Best to use a separate mic pole and windsock, unless you're shooting fixed, in which case a standard mic stand with shockmount and windsock is a good idea.
I would figure that out, then do some research on sites like B&H or Sweetwater for mics and accessories.
The Canon 5D mk II has a built in mono microphone for simple built in sound recording, and also a stereo mini phone jack for stereo sound recording syncronized to the video. There does not seem to be any level controls for sound recording in the 5D mk II, so the results may not be perfect, but potentially very usable.
I intend to try using my Stenheiser MKE 400 stereo microphone that I got for my HV-30 camcorder. It is a fairly small hot shoe mounted unit, and contains its own battery power to run its electronics. I only have limited experence with it so far, but it seems like a good setup.
Been looking at this a bit lately. I'm looking at a combination of Sennheiser MKE 300 and Audio Technica AT822 for different purposes. Unfortunately, I just bought an M-Audio microtrack II and the battery is dead second use, so I won't be able to use both concurrently until the microtrack is fixed.
Roland W wrote:
I intend to try using my Stenheiser MKE 400 stereo microphone that I got for my HV-30 camcorder. It is a fairly small hot shoe mounted unit, and contains its own battery power to run its electronics. I only have limited experence with it so far, but it seems like a good setup.
I don't know whether you'd be able to use that. According to this page : http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2186
It says :
Commercially available electret condenser type external microphones are recommended for best results. However, dynamic type or condenser type external microphones that require phantom power cannot be used.
I thought I had read elsewhere with different wording that microphones cannot be used with phantom power, rather than microphones which require phantom power, cannot be used - a subtle but important difference in the wording. I don't have access to the manual here at work to check there I'm sorry.
The Stenheiser MKE 400 has its own power from an internal battery, so it should work fine with the 5D mk II. I believe that the only problem microphones would be ones that need to draw power from the camera, because the 5D mk II would not provide such power.
Roland W wrote:
The Stenheiser MKE 400 has its own power from an internal battery, so it should work fine with the 5D mk II. I believe that the only problem microphones would be ones that need to draw power from the camera, because the 5D mk II would not provide such power.
Correct.
Any battery powered Condenser mic should work: From cheap $50 models to $3k pro units.
Canon is referring to Condenser mics that require an external (phantom) power source, which the camera does not provide.
Sennheiser, (they make a lot of mics for pro location recording) or any number of other models will probably work just fine. (within the limitations of the camera's audio circuit)
Don't expect stellar results - audio will probably be no better than the typical home video camera's: a lot of off-camera room tone, handling noise, wind noise, limited low frequency response, etc. etc.
For absolute best audio (broadcast, or cinema quality), pro ($$$) mics, booms, and external mixers or mic pre-amps will be required, in addition to editing and sync'ng the audio with the video using software like Final Cut, Pro Tools, etc.
Any battery powered Condenser mic should work: From cheap $50 models to $3k pro units.
Canon is referring to Condenser mics that require an external (phantom) power source, which the camera does not provide.
Sennheiser, (they make a lot of mics for pro location recording) or any number of other models will probably work just fine. (within the limitations of the camera's audio circuit)
Don't expect stellar results - audio will probably be no better than the typical home video camera's: a lot of off-camera room tone, handling noise, wind noise, limited low frequency response, etc. etc.
For absolute best audio (broadcast, or cinema quality), pro ($$$) mics, booms, and external mixers or mic pre-amps will be required, in addition to editing and sync'ng the audio with the video using software like Final Cut, Pro Tools, etc.
Is there a better way to record sound independently? For the applications I'm thinking of, I don't need it to be synced to the video, so that should make it easier/cheaper. I'm basically looking to record high quality audio (ambient sounds) and then lay it over the video in post.
Is there a better way to record sound independently? For the applications I'm thinking of, I don't need it to be synced to the video, so that should make it easier/cheaper. I'm basically looking to record high quality audio (ambient sounds) and then lay it over the video in post.
Can't give you specific product names, remote recording isn't my forte: I'm a studio rat.
I'd say digital Nagra, but you probably don't want to drop $5K + mic for this.
But keeping it easy/cheap, get an all-in-one stereo recorder with built in mic.
make sure it uses some sort of memory card so you can transfer the audio into your computer. (as opposed to little digital memo recorders, which might not be able to)
or get 2 items:
Decent quality stereo electret condenser mic
Decent quality battery powered stereo digital recorder with a stereo mic level input and adjustable (or auto level) pre-amp.
Either way, start by doing some research, and setting your budget: if you're not familiar with audio recording; do some searches at these sites, typing in "portable recording" for starters - you'll get lots of info and opinions (recording dudes are as opinionated as photo dudes, but with a tad less social graces online, so ignore the chaff)
gearslutz.com/board
recforums.prosoundweb.com
recording.org/forums
Put together a list of possible choices, & hit a local retailer if possible, to get a demo.
Purchasing - either local, online retailers like Sweetwater or B&H, or used via Craigslist would be your best bet
BTW
you're going to encounter a lot of stereo mics that use what's called a "Mid-Side" setup:
this gives a good stereo image, but if played back in mono, due to technical reasons, a lot of the subtle ambient info will be lost; leaving only whatever sound source was located directly in front of the mic.
Something to think about, if capturing a lot of general room ambience is your concern.
ajkessler wrote:
Is there a better way to record sound independently? For the applications I'm thinking of, I don't need it to be synced to the video, so that should make it easier/cheaper. I'm basically looking to record high quality audio (ambient sounds) and then lay it over the video in post.
I use a Zoom H4 which records stereo digitally with inbuilt mics, and you can plug 2 external mics with either TRS (tip ring sleeve) or Cannon plugs (different canon) and I think it has phantom power if needed. Roland makes a good digital recorder as well, but more $.
Use the inbuilt mic to provide a reference audio, and just match the peaks and troughs in post with Premiere or whatever to get the sync right.
jaclarkaus wrote:
I use a Zoom H4 which records stereo digitally with inbuilt mics, and you can plug 2 external mics with either TRS (tip ring sleeve) or Cannon plugs (different canon) and I think it has phantom power if needed. Roland makes a good digital recorder as well, but more $.
Use the inbuilt mic to provide a reference audio, and just match the peaks and troughs in post with Premiere or whatever to get the sync right.
Interesting - easy to use for basic live recording? seems to have a lot of bells and whistles
has the X-Y type of mic setup that will not give you a loss of subtle ambience if played back in mono, but will not have as dramatically wide a stereo image as M-S.
Uses removable media
Permits external mics with XLR (aka "cannon") connectors (the pro audio standard)
The 5dII records digital 16bit 44.1 audio. The question is, how good is the analog circuitry that mates up with the A/D converters?
I would guess a simple field recorder like the Zoom H4 would work nicely, and since it has a 4 channel mode that allows 'sound-with-sound' recording, there is no reason a SMPTE LTC time code track could not be pre-recorded onto the H4's SD card as well as using a wireless unit to send it to one channel on the 5DII. This would allow one work track open on the 5DII for comments, narration instructions, etc. Note: The LTC track would be pre-recorded via the H4 to the SD card prior to the project start. In fact, if it were long enough, the same LTC track could be re-used over and over. Hmm... a 24HR 128 bit rate MP3 is ~1.6GB. Get a 32GB card and you're good to go.
jray wrote:
The 5dII records digital 16bit 44.1 audio. The question is, how good is the analog circuitry that mates up with the A/D converters?
I would guess a simple field recorder like the Zoom H4 would work nicely, and since it has a 4 channel mode that allows 'sound-with-sound' recording, there is no reason a SMPTE LTC time code track could not be pre-recorded onto the H4's SD card as well as using a wireless unit to send it to one channel on the 5DII. This would allow one work track open on the 5DII for comments, narration instructions, etc. Note: The LTC track would be pre-recorded via the H4 to the SD card prior to the project start. In fact, if it were long enough, the same LTC track could be re-used over and over. Hmm... a 24HR 128 bit rate MP3 is ~1.6GB. Get a 32GB card and you're good to go. ...Show more →
You've raised some good points worth investigating; have you confirmed?
My questions would be:
Sound With Sound is usually not discrete channel recordings; new info is added to existing, so may not be able to keep T.C. separate.
How likely is it that 5D can selectively record on only 1 channel of stereo audio?
And how likely that 5D would either over-write existing data (pre-recorded T.C.) while shooting, or not permit overwriting, if it reads card and sees it is "full"?
ajkessler wrote:
Is there a better way to record sound independently? For the applications I'm thinking of, I don't need it to be synced to the video, so that should make it easier/cheaper. I'm basically looking to record high quality audio (ambient sounds) and then lay it over the video in post.
I've been using a Zoom H2 and am completely thrilled with it. Get a fuzzy windsock for it, as you'll lose the foam ball that comes with it and the furry ones are better in the wind anyway. $200 (I got mine on sale for $150), the size of two cassette tapes, runs on AAs, records to SD, does four-channel surround that can easily be mixed to 5.1. A buddy has a Zoom H4 which has XLR ins if you want to use pro mics inthe field, but aside from that I see no advantages to it over the H2, whereas the H2 is cheaper, much smaller, and doesn't have any of the small bugaboos of the H4.
signet35 wrote:
You've raised some good points worth investigating; have you confirmed?
My questions would be:
Sound With Sound is usually not discrete channel recordings; new info is added to existing, so may not be able to keep T.C. separate.
Let's just say the H4 has a 4 track mode where up to two tracks can be recorded at a time.
How likely is it that 5D can selectively record on only 1 channel of stereo audio?
It can't and doesn't need to. When in video mode it would record both channels, one of which contains LTC provided by the H4 via wireless, and the other can either be blank of contain a comment track for reference use during editing. This could be hard wired to a headset or be the second audio track on a wireless unit.
And how likely that 5D would either over-write existing data (pre-recorded T.C.) while shooting, or not permit overwriting, if it reads card and sees it is "full"?
I doubt the 5DII will overwrite files when the card is full. That would be one of the biggest bugs in Canon's history. Once again, the LTC track is on the H4, and the audio is part of the video file on the 5dII's card so it's not going anywhere unless the video file is erased by the user.
One of my concerns is there does not seem to be a way to write protect/lock individual tracks on the H4, although complete projects can be write protected. As long you have the LTC on track 3 or 4 and only record on tracks 1 nd 2, there probably won't be a problem.
Keep in mind the LTC code recorded using this method will not be used like normal SMPTE code where frame rate and pilot freq need to be observed. There will absolutely be no way to sync to an individual frame level using this method, and we don't care. We just want the audio synced with the video and to be able to find audio segments that relate to the video shot without using a slate board for sync. All good non-linear editors should support SMPTE, the question is if they all support LTC for audio tracks.
All we need is the ability to get the editor to chase the audio, and we should be set. The one thing that still concerns me is the lack of a pre-roll, and if it's really necessary for what we need to accomplish.
BTW, it's been ~25 years since I last had to deal with SMPTE for video/audio sync. It was for commercials shot in the field using cameras with 1" Saticon tubes and an Otari 1/2" 5050 8 track recorder. I can't even remember the editing stuff we used, but boxes with the names Ampex and Sony were all around. There were no computers and non-linear applications for editing back then (at least none you or I could afford), so everything relied on hardware. This is where there may be a way around some of the classic methods of doing things. I'm hoping a bit of fudge-factoring and out of the box methods might be an answer. Using a pre-recorded LTC track might a part of the solution. I hope.
