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james foote Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #1 · so how was my lighting so how was my lighting, had very little room to shot at there room so could not get the background as i would of liked it. would love some feed back Edited on Oct 07, 2008 at 09:27 PM · View previous versions Oct 07, 2008 at 08:54 PM

Eric Schwab Online Image Upload: On p.1 #2 · so how was my lighting It looks very flat. Did you work in AdobeRGB and forget to convert to sRGB before posting? Oct 07, 2008 at 09:15 PM

shatterkiss Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #3 · so how was my lighting It's not very good. Black backgrounds are about the worst possible choice if you're going to work with one light, minimal space or limited tools. Honestly, it drives me crazy seeing so many inexperienced photographers trying to learn lighting on black backgrounds. Working against black can confound even an experienced shooter. You need something on the background to create separation. You need some kind of fill to keep them from looking murky and falling into the background. You need to raise your key light up higher to create some under-chin and nose shadows and keep your subjects from looking so flat and completely losing their jawlines and cheekbones and giving them both double-chins. You need to work on your posing and direction: if your intent was to create a sense of intimacy and romance between the two subjects then you need to have them relate together in the frame. Link their hands or arms and capture it in the shot, stand her on a box so their faces can be closer together, have them look at each other rather than the camera. But again, I really think this belongs in the People forum, as Lighting isn't really a crit forum. Oct 07, 2008 at 09:51 PM

james foote Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #4 · so how was my lighting ok thanks, i could not have my key light hight as it was at sealing hight as it was so would of needed to of got then sitting. so i think what you are saying is i need a new background cloth, some thing with a bit of colour in it and this would help, and get the light higher or them lower, i must say i was trying to do what you told me last time and i do like the photo and so did they, but i know i can do better and will keep trying to do so the people side do tell me to post here as well and i must say some of the best advice has come from the lighting side james Oct 07, 2008 at 10:04 PM

shatterkiss Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #5 · so how was my lighting james foote wrote: i could not have my key light hight as it was at sealing hight as it was so would of needed to of got then sitting. That surprises me - was his head nearly touching the ceiling? Looking at the catchlight, it's level with her pupil and slightly below his pupil, which leads me to believe that the softbox was level with her eyes and slightly below his. Is there any reason you couldn't have had them sitting for this shot, if ceiling height was an issue? so i think what you are saying is i need a new background cloth, some thing with a bit of colour in it and this would help, and get the light higher or them lower, You could have placed them against a white wall. You could have had them sitting on the front doorstep and brought your strobe outside with a long extension cord. You could have had them laying flat on the bed and shot down at them. You don't need to have a background cloth to make a background for a photo. Very narrow thinking like that will only limit your photos and your learning process - getting creative and resourceful will only improve your photos and teach you actual technique, rather than rote memorization. There are no rules in photography, only things that work and things that don't work. I guarantee you'll end up with way more badly-lit photos by following rules than you will by learning to see critically and evaluate what you're doing before you click the shutter or post an image online. i must say i was trying to do what you told me last time and i do like the photo and so did they, but i know i can do better and will keep trying to do so Okay then, most importantly, what do YOU think about your lighting here? What do you think does and does not work with it? What would you have done differently if you could have? Where do you think this image is lacking and what do you think caused that? Keep in mind that the subjects of a photo are rarely going to be the best judge of the quality of that photo - they're looking at themselves, whether or not their tummies look fat or their hair is awry or their elbows look bony, not your lighting skills. You also have to accept that most people won't relate displeasure or disappointment - how many times have you said "fine!" when a waiter asks how you like your meal, regardless of whether or not you're happy with it? You're the photographer, you need to be the most critical of your photography and lighting, but you also have to decide whether or not a portrait is flattering to the subject before showing it to them. the people side do tell me to post here as well and i must say some of the best advice has come from the lighting side Don't listen to them - the People side are idiots, the Lighting side rules. The People side are unwashed heathens, the Lighting side are elegant and educated gentlemen and women. It's still not a critique forum, though. Oct 07, 2008 at 10:21 PM

james foote Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #6 · so how was my lighting his head was about 4 inches from the roof of the conservatory and the soft bob was as high as it could go, there was o reason why i could not of asked them to sit down and next time i will do so. i do understand what you are saying and will try to find better background around were i am shooting i am trying to see the problems before taking the photo but some time i like to get some advice on what people think of what i have done. as for this part well i like the photo, and feel it is the best one i have posted so far in some ways, though i know it could be better, the subject paid me and ordered more and rebook me so they were happy , but may be this is because i am a better salesman than a photographer, as for the people or the light room well i will give you that but dont tell them many thanks for your help Oct 07, 2008 at 10:38 PM

cwebster Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #7 · so how was my lighting James, you really should work through Chuck Gardner's tutorials. They will help you understand what's happening here. http://super.nova.org/DPR/ <Chas> Oct 08, 2008 at 05:23 AM

mmurph Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #8 · so how was my lighting Nice modelling on the faces. Detail and realistic lines without being too "revealing" of wrinkles, etc. (I know they are younger.) You might crop a bit higher at the bottom. Her cleavage on the right pulls the eye down a bit, takes away from the center of focus and creates a "tension" that they probably don't want in a fairly straghtforward portrait. The eyes look nice, that is important. Just keep going and making images. I find it very easy to see ways to improve others images, very hard to see that in my own. Too much ego involvement. Best, Michael Oct 08, 2008 at 09:24 AM

c.d.embrey Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #9 · so how was my lighting This is not a critique form! The People Photography and Black & White Vision forums are for critique. Instead of "so how was my lighting" the the title of this thread should have been something like "what did I do wrong". But you already knew what was wrong, not enough ceiling hight for lights, not enough room period. Not to harsh, but why did you post the thread? This forum is not about feedback, it is to answer questions about lights & lighting and threads like "new one light setup" and "Show us your setup!" Oct 08, 2008 at 04:52 PM

TJ Asher Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #10 · so how was my lighting James, Simon has eloquently stated all the things that are wrong with an image like this and how to improve them. To the rest of you who thing this is not a forum for feedback, I say you are wrong. We are here to help each other learn new ideas and seeing a photo that many of us think is poorly lit is a good reminder that we need to keep on our toes. What do you think those threads on showing studios or setups or one light shots are about? It's to learn, to spark new ideas. James wants to learn and there are those like Simon who are willing to share his knowledge and experience and provide a thoughtful response and offer suggestions for improvement. How else are people going to learn about lights and lighting without examples, both good and bad? I applaud James' willingness to show a photo and take a few punches and those who try to help out. Oct 08, 2008 at 05:36 PM

Saint Sigma Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · so how was my lighting sa basically what you are saying c.d. is that this is a gear only forum? no place for critique on the quality of light produced by said gear? also, let me quote you: This forum is not about feedback, it is to answer questions about lights & lighting and threads like "new one light setup" and "Show us your setup!" by that statement alone the forum IS ABOUT feedback. Oct 08, 2008 at 05:58 PM

c.d.embrey Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #12 · so how was my lighting shatterkiss wrote: But again, I really think this belongs in the People forum, as Lighting isn't really a crit forum. Well at least two of us think that. Oct 08, 2008 at 06:16 PM

BSHuff Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #13 · so how was my lighting As much as I want to just 'hide me' the trolls.. I feel necessary to make a comment. So the person that is looking to improve his lighting technique and how to use his gear better should go to a portion of the board that caters to anything goes as long as there is a person in it or anything goes as long as it is in B&W? The OP is posting in a lighting portion looking for comments on his lighting to learn. If he would post this in the people forum a whole lot more people would see it but likely less would comment on it from a lighting standpoint. In people you might get 'you need more background separation', while in here you get some help figuring out how to do that. I for one come here cause I like reading the lighting level critiques that people like shatterkiss and others provide, I would never see these cause I do not search out the posts in People/B&W/etc that are referring to lighting. Face it there is not too much activity on the lighting forum portion of this forum, why stifle posts that are topical in order to conform to your presumed set of rules that you think that this forum is. Some sub forums on this site have stickied posts at the top that say what is acceptable or not, lighting does not. These battles do nothing but force people away. Oct 08, 2008 at 08:12 PM

c.d.embrey Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #14 · so how was my lighting Saint Sigma wrote: sa basically what you are saying c.d. is that this is a gear only forum? no place for critique on the quality of light produced by said gear? Yes there is a place for that. You'll see lots of threads. But OP didn't say that he was using AbC strobes with XyZ modifiers, he said "so how was my lighting" big difference. You also have a thread asking for critique. That thread would have been more useful if you said what modifiers you were using on your speedlights, where they were placed, what power settings, etc, etc. Why you did it that way, etc, etc. Then we all could have learned something from it. But you didn't. also, let me quote you: This forum is not about feedback, it is to answer questions about lights & lighting and threads like "new one light setup" and "Show us your setup!" by that statement alone the forum IS ABOUT feedback. OPs post would have been appropriate for "new one light setup", won't see much critique there but you will see questions like that's trick, how did you do that, etc. Many people ask questions about what equipment to use to get an effect, post a photo and ask why didn't this work the way I intended, etc, etc. And these questions are answered by people with knowledge on the subject. Answering questions and giving feedback are two different things. Oct 08, 2008 at 08:12 PM

james foote Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #15 · so how was my lighting wow ha ha ha well let me just say i am not going to play on words, i asked how was my lighting,the forum does say Lighting and Studio techniques, not what lights do you have or should i use. I thought it was good, i now know it was not and i now have a good idea on how to improve on what i did, i did have an idea at the time but it is much better to here is from people on the know, and it takes Balls to put up a shot and ask people to tell you were you went wrong and how to improve it. i have talked to some great people from here on the phone as well as mail and i have decided that i will keep posting unless the powers that be tell me not too, i, as well as many people who view this forum, learn from what the great lighting people have to tell us and for that i, and other are very grateful , so instead of bitch about if it should be posted here or not why dont we all just get on and enjoy taking photos and helping each other get better at our hobby our job and out passion i would also like to say that the photo you can see made me £500 and yes i am make a living at this, now that makes me a better sales and marketing man than it does a photographer and if any one asked me about this what ever forum i was in i would answer it and give my Tel number to help if that was needed, i would not say go to the PRO forum. i wish you all well and i thank the people who have offered me the advice that i so much need i am going to Egypt for two weeks now so will come back then god bless you all and have fun james p.s i have just had some one edit the photo and send it to me with a good web site to get more help, now that is what this is all about, thank mate it helped Oct 08, 2008 at 09:28 PM

shatterkiss Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #16 · so how was my lighting james foote wrote: well let me just say i am not going to play on words, i asked how was my lighting,the forum does say Lighting and Studio techniques, not what lights do you have or should i use. I thought it was good, i now know it was not and i now have a good idea on how to improve on what i did, i did have an idea at the time but it is much better to here is from people on the know, and it takes Balls to put up a shot and ask people to tell you were you went wrong and how to improve it. You'll notice that, above the individual forum name, it also says "Gear Talk". It's tricky, I'll admit it. I find the crit forums on FM to pander to the lowest common denominator and largely be lacking in constructive criticism, whereas the tech forums are actually pretty intelligent and valuable. But that's how the site's laid out and who are we to repurpose it for our own preferences? I agree with CD - I'd appreciate it if you took a little more effort if you're going to come to this particular forum looking for criticism, at least more than "here's a shot, what do you think?" Take the time to describe your setup and process, shoot a couple behind-the-scenes images so we can see how you were working, explain why you chose to work the way you did. Give something back to the community so that you're not the only one learning from your threads, but other folks can gain from them as well. I don't mind giving feedback or pointers, but it's nicer to think that they might be of value to more than one person. Oct 09, 2008 at 01:54 AM

Saint Sigma Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #17 · so how was my lighting tricky little board this is. hehe So let me just get this in a nut-shell so I don't mess up again: -It's ok to post pictures here so long as lighting set-up is described. -It's not ok to post here to ask if something is wrong with the lighting WITHOUT describing the set-up. all right got it then. thanks. Hope to have better discussions in the future. Oct 09, 2008 at 04:46 AM

james foote Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #18 · so how was my lighting second what saint sigma said Oct 09, 2008 at 07:29 AM

dmacmillan Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #19 · so how was my lighting shatterkiss wrote: I guarantee you'll end up with way more badly-lit photos by following rules than you will by learning to see critically and evaluate what you're doing before you click the shutter or post an image online. Yes, especially when "suggestions" (rules) which are presented as dogma are usually a lot of myopic BS. Doug Edited on Oct 09, 2008 at 07:47 PM · View previous versions Oct 09, 2008 at 02:09 PM

lordarka Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #20 · so how was my lighting Simon, C.D. Embrey: With respect, I think your interpretation of the purpose of any given forum is a little too rigid. I see no problem with someone asking for lighting crits in a lighting forum. Even if the forum's organizational structure pigeonholes this forum into a "gear talk" category, I hardly think it inappropriate to discuss how one might better use the equipment comprising the sub-forum title. And as Simon indicates, the critique forums are populated by a majority of inexperienced photographers who can offer little in the way of constructive critique. I've been to forums which rigidly restrict the kinds of work that may be posted in certain forums. At ConceptArt.org, for example, you can't post incomplete or beginner level work in the "It's finally finished!" forum, but comments directed to "finished" pieces on that board may be either critical or laudatory. While the forum mods over there strictly enforce the "fine art only" rule for that particular board, Fred doesn't seem so intent on creating that sort of regulatory structure here. That you (Simon) responded with detailed critique indicates to me that at least one of you is willing to apply the same kind of flexibility that seems inherent on these boards. Arka C. Oct 09, 2008 at 06:09 PM

Brent Ward Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #21 · so how was my lighting I find the calibur of professional experience with people in this forum is higher than the people forum. Oct 09, 2008 at 06:44 PM

dmacmillan Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #22 · so how was my lighting Brent Ward wrote: I find the calibur of professional experience with people in this forum is higher than the people forum. It's an illusion. Oct 09, 2008 at 07:48 PM

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