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Archive 2008 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS
  
 
Esquire08
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p.2 #1 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


He is talking about "sharpening" in Photoshop or other programs used after you take the pictures. Your 40D has lots of settings in-camera that will make the images look different.

Do you shoot in RAW or JPEG? If RAW, these settings are useless.

Also, the f/2.8 IS and 40D are known for focusing problems. My 40D had to be sent back to Canon because the auto-focus assembly was messed up.

Sep 11, 2008 at 07:16 PM
John Ferguson
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p.2 #2 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


Use AI Servo, do not use AI Focus. AI Focus waits until your subject is completely out of the depth of field before switching to AI Servo and trying to refocus. Use the center focus point only for your situation, when using AI Servo with all focus points selected, the outer focus points can lock in on the subject with the most contrast which will probably be the white portion of the waves. Turn off IS, it does not help when your shutter speed is 1/1000 or faster and will constantly be moving the lens elements against the direction you are moving your lens which can lead to soft images.

You didn't waste your money on IS, but it does more harm than good when shooting at high shutter speeds IMHO.

Sep 11, 2008 at 07:47 PM
Seth Tower
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p.2 #3 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


eddy.fioretti wrote:
Seth Tower wrote:
IS will NOT ruin your shots at such a high shutter; where did you hear that? I use IS on my lens all the time, from 1/2 of a second to 1/8000, and I've NEVER had it "ruin" a shot. And I'm talking about tens of thousands of images.
You are right that it will have no effect on camera shake at those shutter speeds, however the steady image in the viewfinder makes it much easier to compose and shoot.


it will not sort any effect even if mounted over a tripod? tha manuals (and almost everybody) says that IS should be turned off while shooting with a tripod... your thought please ?


Wait a minute, I didn't mention anything about using a tripod. I would assume that if you're shooting action (like the shots posted in this thread), you're probably NOT using a tripod; monopod? Yes. Tripod? Doubtful. The older IS lenses (28-135 IS, etc) will not work on a tripod. Most of the newer lenses have a sensor that automatically turns off IS if it detects a tripod, including the 70-200 IS. Saying that, I'm not sure why you'd use IS on a tripod, much shoot action with a tripod!

Sep 11, 2008 at 08:50 PM
msalvetti
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p.2 #4 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


eddy,

I think you're on the right track. At this point, you might just need to keep practicing. I don't know if you've cropped the first photos you posted, but even if you haven't, the skiier is pretty small compared to the overall scene. So I can imagine that it is difficult to keep the center point on the subject, and therefore easy to grab focus on the ocean behind.

I still think the center point only is the way to go. If you were to use all the points, I don't think they are close enough together and you might still lose lock on your subject.

Mark

Sep 11, 2008 at 09:35 PM
Pete Klinger
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p.2 #5 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


msalvetti wrote:
eddy,

I think you're on the right track. At this point, you might just need to keep practicing. I don't know if you've cropped the first photos you posted, but even if you haven't, the skiier is pretty small compared to the overall scene. So I can imagine that it is difficult to keep the center point on the subject, and therefore easy to grab focus on the ocean behind.

I still think the center point only is the way to go. If you were to use all the points, I don't think they are close enough together and you might still lose lock on your subject.

Mark


Shooting with all points can "confuse" the camera, it also takes longer to acquire a focus. The IS can take some time to settle, which means I shoot on a monopod with IS off, AIServo and sometimes use only the center bottom focus point. Sometimes only the center point, and if I'm leading a car, going left to right for example, the lower right point, to get the camera focusing ahead of a 180mph car!

I never calculated the shutter lag or focus lag when panning with something moving that fast. Just something I try when the nose of the car is going to be leading, where the lower focus point can read it.

Try the lower center focus point and see if that helps. A white board against the deep blue sea, works fine, and the subject is still centered. This will also bring the focus a little ahead of the subject, if you are having a problem with back focusing.

If you are panning, you can get some sharp images at 400 or 500th, and gain depth of field. Faster shutter speed, you start to give up DoF. Most I go with the 40D is iso 200, but I've seen people do fine at higher numbers.

Point is, every item you change to make one factor improve, will degrade something else. You don't need to shoot at 1000th to stop action, unless you want every water droplet frozen. Sometimes motion blur makes the image more alive.

TV - ISO 200, 500th, the aperture will be around f/8 depending on the brightness of the subject. Take it from there and fine tune for your desired results.

Oh yes, I throw away at least 1/3rd of my action photos because the first one in a burst, the camera is still focusing, the second it's usually on, the third is hit or miss, the 4th is in focus again? I often start shooting and let the subject move into the shot I want, then when I'm editing, I toss the first or first and second shots, which are not filling the frame enough.


Edited on Sep 12, 2008 at 06:48 AM


Sep 12, 2008 at 06:42 AM
eddy.fioretti
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p.2 #6 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


Esquire08 wrote:
He is talking about "sharpening" in Photoshop or other programs used after you take the pictures. Your 40D has lots of settings in-camera that will make the images look different.

Do you shoot in RAW or JPEG? If RAW, these settings are useless.

Also, the f/2.8 IS and 40D are known for focusing problems. My 40D had to be sent back to Canon because the auto-focus assembly was messed up.


RAW, with as low PP as I can (no time, and no experience with photoshop - I'm trying now to learn through 123di but I really have another work that absorb 12 hours a day so my remaining day time is for other)

didn't know about the combo focusing problems... hope I don't need to send mine back - you mean that 40D can degrade his performance after the 70-200 f2.8 usage, or that you needed a particular setup to let them function properly together ?


Sep 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM
eddy.fioretti
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p.2 #7 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


John Ferguson wrote:
Use AI Servo, do not use AI Focus. AI Focus waits until your subject is completely out of the depth of field before switching to AI Servo and trying to refocus. Use the center focus point only for your situation, when using AI Servo with all focus points selected, the outer focus points can lock in on the subject with the most contrast which will probably be the white portion of the waves. Turn off IS, it does not help when your shutter speed is 1/1000 or faster and will constantly be moving the lens elements against the direction you are moving your lens which can lead to soft images.

You didn't waste your money on IS, but it does more harm than good when shooting at high shutter speeds IMHO.


1) john, together with Trojanhorse comment 2 rows above - if I use the central point and the subject goes out to outer points, the camera "understands" that the core subject is moving and consequently moves the focus ? it seems a "too intelligent approach" but could be nice !

2) ok for IS off - I understood

3) what is IMHO meaning ?

Sep 12, 2008 at 11:27 AM
eddy.fioretti
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p.2 #8 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


Pete Klinger wrote:
msalvetti wrote:
eddy,

I think you're on the right track. At this point, you might just need to keep practicing. I don't know if you've cropped the first photos you posted, but even if you haven't, the skiier is pretty small compared to the overall scene. So I can imagine that it is difficult to keep the center point on the subject, and therefore easy to grab focus on the ocean behind.

I still think the center point only is the way to go. If you were to use all the points, I don't think they are close enough together and you might still lose lock on your subject.

Mark


Shooting with all points can "confuse" the camera, it also takes longer to acquire a focus. The IS can take some time to settle, which means I shoot on a monopod with IS off, AIServo and sometimes use only the center bottom focus point. Sometimes only the center point, and if I'm leading a car, going left to right for example, the lower right point, to get the camera focusing ahead of a 180mph car!

I never calculated the shutter lag or focus lag when panning with something moving that fast. Just something I try when the nose of the car is going to be leading, where the lower focus point can read it.

Try the lower center focus point and see if that helps. A white board against the deep blue sea, works fine, and the subject is still centered. This will also bring the focus a little ahead of the subject, if you are having a problem with back focusing.

If you are panning, you can get some sharp images at 400 or 500th, and gain depth of field. Faster shutter speed, you start to give up DoF. Most I go with the 40D is iso 200, but I've seen people do fine at higher numbers.

Point is, every item you change to make one factor improve, will degrade something else. You don't need to shoot at 1000th to stop action, unless you want every water droplet frozen. Sometimes motion blur makes the image more alive.

TV - ISO 200, 500th, the aperture will be around f/8 depending on the brightness of the subject. Take it from there and fine tune for your desired results.

Oh yes, I throw away at least 1/3rd of my action photos because the first one in a burst, the camera is still focusing, the second it's usually on, the third is hit or miss, the 4th is in focus again? I often start shooting and let the subject move into the shot I want, then when I'm editing, I toss the first or first and second shots, which are not filling the frame enough.


uff - a lot of stuff thanks !!!!

some comments to your questions
- no crop, if the kiter is small, that's due to the fact that he is too far from me (no money to buy a longer zoom anyway)
- all made with center point only, AI one shot, 200 ISO usually, Av f4 to increase shutter speed and lower DoF (depth of field, correct?) - never thought that all focusing points active are useful for this kind of shooting: too many white waves and other high contrast object that disturbs the core
- I've tried some time th lower or right/left focus point... doesn't work fine for me... the kiter moves usually in a determined direction before the trick, but the trick is up (he jumps out the water) and for this I prefer the central point, with eventually a crop in PP (if he was near enough)

"TV - ISO 200, 500th, the aperture will be around f/8 depending on the brightness of the subject. Take it from there and fine tune for your desired results." - good thought I would try next time... I have to oblige myself to think in terms of Tv and not Av sometimes (not used to)

thanks guys very helpful


Sep 12, 2008 at 11:54 AM
 



jvarszegi
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p.2 #9 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


eddy.fioretti wrote:
maverick666 wrote:
f4 ?. You won't get anything...try f8.


mmhhh ... could be, but I like pictures with very low depth, ans someone has very good overall aspect (on my opinion)



This image is copyrighted by the owner






This image is copyrighted by the owner






This image is copyrighted by the owner







Yeah, but those are all completely misfocused except for the first, where only the board is really in focus. You have to get the shot first.

Edited on Sep 12, 2008 at 01:00 PM


Sep 12, 2008 at 12:53 PM
eddy.fioretti
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p.2 #10 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


mmhhhh
#1 at f/4 the kiter was super near so it was not possible to do better (without focusing him instead of the board - that's true)
#2 I think is more a moving blur than a focusing problem, but you are right
#3 yes, but the overall aspect is good for me

anyway you are right - focusing is a nightmare in those shooting conditions

Sep 12, 2008 at 01:07 PM
jvarszegi
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p.2 #11 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


eddy.fioretti wrote:
mmhhhh
#1 at f/4 the kiter was super near so it was not possible to do better (without focusing him instead of the board - that's true)
#2 I think is more a moving blur than a focusing problem, but you are right
#3 yes, but the overall aspect is good for me

anyway you are right - focusing is a nightmare in those shooting conditions


The good news is that these are pleasing despite a bit of missed focus. I would give up the idea of shooting at f/4 for a while and see if you can adapt to it. At least you will get a lot more keepers, with wider DOF and AI focus.

Sep 12, 2008 at 01:23 PM
astrolucida
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p.2 #12 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


Seth Tower wrote:
IS will NOT ruin your shots at such a high shutter; where did you hear that? I use IS on my lens all the time, from 1/2 of a second to 1/8000, and I've NEVER had it "ruin" a shot.


It does - if the subject is moving and you pan in mode 1. Or, if you don't give it enough time to settle.


Sep 12, 2008 at 06:12 PM
tanglefoot47
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p.2 #13 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


Hey Eddy any family live in Washington State? I use to work with Geno Fioretti for many years. I know he still has family in Italy and has been back a few times that I know of

Mike

Sep 21, 2008 at 12:30 AM
EA6B
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p.2 #14 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


FWIW, older generation IS had to be turned off with tripod use. Not so with current generation IS as found on the 70-200 2.8L IS.

E

Sep 21, 2008 at 02:55 AM
eddy.fioretti
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p.2 #15 · focusing troubles with 40D + 70-200 f2.8 IS


tanglefoot47 wrote:
Hey Eddy any family live in Washington State? I use to work with Geno Fioretti for many years. I know he still has family in Italy and has been back a few times that I know of

Mike


no relations with his family Mike


Sep 21, 2008 at 04:54 PM
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