Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

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zogster
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p.1 #1 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

This is from my third senior photo session. I tried to take the constructive criticism from my last post ("second senior photo shoot") and put it to use. Don't be shy, tell me what you think as I really do want to get better at this and my bruises have healed ;-)

Aug 29, 2008 at 10:50 PM

Steady Hand
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p.1 #2 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

Hi,

You would like some constructive criticism.

My comments below are not a criticism of you, your model, or your talent or skill. They are offered in a friendly tone of voice with the sole intent to help you if I can with another set of eyes and POV.

Pretty models often make it difficult for people to look at a photo objectively.

The first thing that occurred to me while viewing the image was: "A happy pretty blonde with blue eyes and a nice smile."

So for first impressions, I am sure the image will please many or most.

Looking at it as a photo of a person what I noticed is this:

1. The facial structure seems "flattened."

2. Her nose seems to be pushed back into the face by this "flattening" effect.

3. The bridge of the nose appears to be lower than the surrounding areas below the eyes.

My Simple Suggestion: modify your use of reflected light or fill light to allow the nose to project (to the viewer) in order to create a more three dimensional effect of the facial features.

I hope these comments help you.

Aug 29, 2008 at 11:03 PM

zogster
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p.1 #3 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

Steady Hand wrote:

My Simple Suggestion: modify your use of reflected light or fill light to allow the nose to project (to the viewer) in order to create a more three dimensional effect of the facial features.

I hope these comments help you.

Steady Hand,

Thanks for the input. I'm not 100% sure what you mean. Is this something that could be done PP or is it too late? If there is a fix, are you willing to try it and repost so I can see what you mean? Thanks again.

I'm guessing you mean something more like this, which I'm sure suffers from other problems :

Thanks again.

John

Edited by zogster on Aug 29, 2008 at 06:26 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 29, 2008 at 11:26 PM

Aug 29, 2008 at 11:08 PM

nylad
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p.1 #4 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

I think what Steady Hand is saying is that the lights should be repositioned to show some shadow (definition) around the nose. That way the nose sticks out, right now there is really nothing on either side of the nostrils that makes them stick out. There is a little shadow under the left eye which helps, if there wasn't that then the whole face would look very flat. Moving your light source a little to the left or right would create the definition Steady Hand is talking about.

Aug 29, 2008 at 11:15 PM

JonStafford
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p.1 #5 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

zogster wrote:
Is this something that could be done PP or is it too late?

John

Only if PP stands for Pre- Processing

Aug 29, 2008 at 11:20 PM

weeums
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p.1 #6 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

zogster... er John.

could you post a few more for a bit of variety? it's hard to really give you great feedback based on 1 photo.

my first thought is .. I'd really rather see more of her so she's not clipped on the crop ie. at the top of the head... OR ... crop in alot tighter so it's clearly planned.

more photos please.. she's easy on the eyes.. so none of us will have a hard time.

- travis

Aug 29, 2008 at 11:20 PM

zogster
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p.1 #7 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

nylad wrote:
I think what Steady Hand is saying is that the lights should be repositioned to show some shadow (definition) around the nose. That way the nose sticks out, right now there is really nothing on either side of the nostrils that makes them stick out. There is a little shadow under the left eye which helps, if there wasn't that then the whole face would look very flat. Moving your light source a little to the left or right would create the definition Steady Hand is talking about.

Got it, sorry, I was being dense, and I now see it. I think I can do a little work in photoshop to help a bit, but it really needed to be set up right at the time of the shoot.

John

Aug 29, 2008 at 11:31 PM

zogster
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p.1 #8 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

weeums wrote:
zogster... er John (snip)

more photos please.. she's easy on the eyes.. so none of us will have a hard time.

- travis

We did a couple of more "looks", but this should give you an idea. Fire away!

Edited on Aug 30, 2008 at 02:15 AM

Aug 30, 2008 at 12:06 AM

jfinite
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p.1 #9 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

I think the first one you posted is a really nice shot. Gorgeous bkg, the girl is nicely posed and in focus, only nit is that it looks like you have uplighting, or some reflected light is bouncing up onto her face. This is traditionally a no-no, as it's usually not very flattering, but I think it's ok here, just maybe watch it in the future.

The rest look like a competently lit and posed set, good job.

Aug 30, 2008 at 03:06 AM

paulhodson
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p.1 #10 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

zogster wrote:
Is this something that could be done PP or is it too late? If there is a fix, are you willing to try it and repost so I can see what you mean?

You can't fully fix it - but you could probably improve it a little

Aug 30, 2008 at 06:36 AM

weeums
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p.1 #11 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

wow John... er... zogster... you really came thru. Nice job adding photos - now next time number them and you'll have a perfect post.

if you don't count the first two individual images.. and you count the next 6 starting 1-6...

#1 and #3 are REAL Winner's.. way better than the first image posted...

#1 - love the non-smile look away fromt he camera... nicely composed and nearly properly framed... the clip on her left shoulder and arm doesn't really bother me in this image.

#3 - awesome use of the brick background... nice texture... and love the relaxed hands in back pockets pose - I love that you're kinda shooting down on her and .. and ... I love the tilt (some will disagree)... great use of the tilt.. and I think it fits here.

#4 - after a second look this is also outstanding... the tighter crop looks more intentional that you didn't get in the top of her head... and the look she has with you er.. the camera ... is great !

funny that the first image you shared with us is in my opinion not one of your strongest. I also love a post where the OP has some commentary on their thoughts.. is this their favorite? ....

good post.. hope the feedback you're getting helps... keep posting. you are no "schlub"

- travis

Aug 30, 2008 at 07:04 AM

neil snape
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p.1 #12 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

I agree with the second poster.
She's a proud girl, yet you're not showing it or letting her show what she wants too.
You need to be more aware of light and shadow, even as it can be very distracting with a belle in front of you.
As far as PP if you can the retouched photo by Paul is in the right direction. For me though it is rather saving, not enhancing.
The pictures with the black top , you need to loose all the bumps. Makeup with the eyeliner hard edged could be smoothed/ smoother but isn't your fault.
Avoid the image with the perspective looking down and at a rotated angle causing some very distracting lines in the brick wall.

Even though it's not always possible watch for the smaller eye, which in this case is her right eye which in classic portraiture it should be the near eye.

Overall very nice, very very attractive young lady. For your own book maybe try shooting her again. If you do you could talk with her about what she wants be in a set of more personalised photos.

Aug 30, 2008 at 07:26 AM

weeums
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p.1 #13 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

funny how #3 (tilt, brickwall, downward angle) can be found loved by some and then another not so fond of it.. I guess Lance Armstrong felt what that was like !

- travis

Aug 30, 2008 at 07:41 AM

zogster
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p.1 #14 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

neil snape wrote:

Even though it's not always possible watch for the smaller eye, which in this case is her right eye which in classic portraiture it should be the near eye.

I noticed the eye but wasn't sure what to do about it. Once she has selected her favorite photo, I figure I can fix it in photoshop. Thanks for the tip on keeping the smaller eye closer. I'll try to remember that. I don't do make-up and don't know anyone who does, so I kind of rely on the client to do their own. I'll try smoothing the eyeliner in photoshop as well.

Thanks again.

John

Aug 30, 2008 at 01:46 PM

zogster
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p.1 #15 · Third Senior Session - Go Ahead and Beat Me Up

paulhodson wrote:
zogster wrote:
Is this something that could be done PP or is it too late? If there is a fix, are you willing to try it and repost so I can see what you mean?

You can't fully fix it - but you could probably improve it a little

Paul, I like what you've done. Thanks for trying.

John

Aug 30, 2008 at 01:47 PM


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