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Archive 2008 · Dance Pose Copyright

  
 
DixPix
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p.2 #1 · Dance Pose Copyright


Copyrighting a pose as part of a choreographic work would be like copyrighting a note as part of a piece of music.

If that guy in Hawai'i could find another photograph of the same hula pose, he could copy that assuming he had that photographer's permission. If he took a photo of the pose, he'd be home free but only in terms of future copies of his own photo.

About Burger Bars:

Here in Austin, several years ago Fuddrucker's won a lawsuit against a restaurant called Pedunkle's because they said Pedunkle's copied their format. Pedunkle's had a quieter, more up-scale atmosphere but they did have a set-up where the customer dressed his own burgers. Pedunkle's was forced to close. Bummer!

Dick



Aug 21, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Matt Cope
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p.2 #2 · Dance Pose Copyright


As the original poster's avatar does not say which country they live (and work) in. It is impossible to advise them about the legal situation. All the above advice and comment is meaningless with that location information.

Edited on Aug 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM



Aug 21, 2008 at 11:25 AM
liamh
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p.2 #3 · Dance Pose Copyright


paulhodson wrote:
I can't believe you said that

Glad someone got it I did have a line that involved lawyer's dancing to their own tune...

Edited by liamh on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:25 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 21, 2008 at 01:25 PM



Aug 21, 2008 at 11:30 AM
forrest5000
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p.2 #4 · Dance Pose Copyright


liamh wrote:
Glad someone got it I did have a that involved lawyer's dancing to their own tune...

your talents you are wasted here!
I would go for the following based on my research in the field, although we were looking at patents.

Copyright it the right of copy and while it has been expanded to cover other forms of intellectual property (IP) I don't believe that a pose would be covered, a piece of choreographic work which is in essence a script, similar to a play or film script, could be.
Either way the only ones who will make money out of this argument the lawyers
John



Aug 21, 2008 at 12:18 PM
dmacmillan
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p.2 #5 · Dance Pose Copyright


While there's been a lot of discussion of the intricacies of copyright law, I can't find a post that asks an obvious question: What is the instructor after? It may be something as simple as a tag line giving her credit, hoping for some exposure.

How did she wind up at the shoot to begin with? That seems a little odd if it was just a photo for the parents that the dance instructor would be brought in. Who asked her to be there? Was she paid?

Does she allow parents to photograph their children at recitals? I think I'd be tempted to say to her: "Gee, I'd hate to see your business hurt if a rumor got out that you threaten to sue your student's parents if they take a photo of their child in one of your copyrighted poses!"

Doug



Aug 21, 2008 at 12:47 PM
kaydee
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p.2 #6 · Dance Pose Copyright


Thank you all for the fired up discussion. But it looks like the issue is vague and there is no firm answer as to whether the poses are ,or can be copyrighted by the teacher.

I talked to a few lawyer friends and they too were quite confused and unclear as to which way it would go !!!

Kay Dee



Aug 21, 2008 at 10:21 PM
transoptic1
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p.2 #7 · Dance Pose Copyright


A pose seems different than say to videograph a whole choreographed dance routine.


Aug 21, 2008 at 10:24 PM
kaydee
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p.2 #8 · Dance Pose Copyright


The teacher wants the parents and me to stop showing the poses to other people/prospective clients as she claims to be the copyright owner of the poses. In fact I know that she has not filed any copyright registrations with the proper authorities, but she is just been a little annoying.

She wants control of who sees the images.

I want to make sure that I am not treding into murky waters by telling her to take a hike. The parents are with me !!!

Kay Dee



Aug 21, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Ted.Sz
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p.2 #9 · Dance Pose Copyright


Too funny. I'd like to see the first Patent office in any country to grant a patent on the way someone may position their body as that what a pose is. Prior art anyone?


Aug 21, 2008 at 11:54 PM
Brooke Clyde
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p.2 #10 · Dance Pose Copyright


donrisi wrote:
I hate to say this, but choreography can indeed be copyrighted. A "dance pose" is one moment in a choreographed dance, and can, therefore, be copyrighted.


Choreography can, indeed, be copyrighted. But the above assertion is rather like claiming that, since this reply can be copyrighted, then I own the word "Choreography".

But you can use it ...



Aug 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM
RGS65
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p.2 #11 · Dance Pose Copyright


If the "pose" is from a larger choreographed dance routine I see no reason it could not be copyrighted, just like a single frame from a movie. It's part of a larger routine which could be registered.

A single pose seems less likely.



Aug 22, 2008 at 10:35 AM
RGS65
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p.2 #12 · Dance Pose Copyright


I think you are indeed treading on murky waters - I would be careful, just like you would want someone to be careful with your art. Be respectful of her art form as you want her to be of yours.

If she teaches this kid and created a choreographed routine and these single poses are from that routine she is well on her way to winning the argument IMO.

The parents are with you? Really? Have them sign an indemnity agreement that they will pay any judgment against you and then we will see.

kaydee wrote:
The teacher wants the parents and me to stop showing the poses to other people/prospective clients as she claims to be the copyright owner of the poses. In fact I know that she has not filed any copyright registrations with the proper authorities, but she is just been a little annoying.

She wants control of who sees the images.

I want to make sure that I am not treding into murky waters by telling her to take a hike. The parents are with me !!!

Kay Dee



Edited on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:39 AM



Aug 22, 2008 at 10:37 AM
mostlyprudent
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p.2 #13 · Dance Pose Copyright


kaydee wrote:
Thank you all for the fired up discussion. But it looks like the issue is vague and there is no firm answer as to whether the poses are ,or can be copyrighted by the teacher.

I talked to a few lawyer friends and they too were quite confused and unclear as to which way it would go !!!

Kay Dee


With all do respect to your lawyer friends, this would not be confusing or complicated to an IP attorney.



Aug 22, 2008 at 10:39 AM
RGS65
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p.2 #14 · Dance Pose Copyright


Exactly right. Unclear as to which way it would ultimately go only means, yes, you can be sued and you won't know how it shakes out until the lawyers on both sides get paid and somebody loses. You are taking a risk. Just be aware of that. (I'm a lawyer too.)


Aug 22, 2008 at 10:42 AM
RGS65
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p.2 #15 · Dance Pose Copyright


By the way, this has been a very interesting post. I find the level of disrespect for art other than photography astounding - and downright scary and ignorant.


Aug 22, 2008 at 10:43 AM
liamh
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p.2 #16 · Dance Pose Copyright


RGS65 wrote:
By the way, this has been a very interesting post. I find the level of disrespect for art other than photography astounding - and downright scary and ignorant.


Great attitude



Aug 22, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Bill Grae
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p.2 #17 · Dance Pose Copyright


Long post alert. CAUTION. First, however, a disclaimer:

Please note that none of the following is intended as legal advice, especially since I have no idea in what jurisdiction (or country, even) this interesting question arises, and I am only admitted in New York and New Jersey and several District Courts in the Second and Third (federal) Circuits. This post is especially NOT intended to establish any sort of attorney-client relationship, and is offered here, SOLELY, to foster on-going discussion on this topic.

Assuming we're talking about U.S. copyright law, however, here's my take on things:

Based on my research, the bottom line seems to be that the dance instructor in question could actually be correct about her right to claim to own the copyright t a particular dance pose, but probably is not. Answering this question, however, requires more information. For example, is there anything about the particular pose that makes it a unique expression of an idea, as opposed to a “standard pose”? Whereas a sequence of moves quite easily can be construed as an expression of an idea, rather than an idea in and of itself, a single static pose of an individual dancer (absent unique costume, setting, or musical accompaniment) hardly seems the sort of unique expression that courts will grant protection.

A “dance” or choreographed work, is potentially subject to copyright protection. E.g., Martha Graham Sch. & Dance Found., Inc. v. Martha Graham Ctr. of Contemporary Dance, Inc., 374 F. Supp. 2d 355 (S.D.N.Y. 2005). Similarly, based on federal court decisions dating back to at least 1884, “[p]hotographs may be protected under copyright law based on the expression of the artist's originality, such as his choice of composition, lighting, shading, camera angle, background, perspective, selection of film and camera, and the expression elicited from the subjects.” For what it’s worth, even legal works - such as contracts or software end-user agreements - can be subject to copyright, though legal opinions or judicial decisions are not. That’s why I can quote above, from the word “photographs” through “subject”, without worrying about U.S. District Court Judge Matthew W. Kennelly, of the Northern District of Illinois, suing me, for grabbing language from his opinion in Bryant v. Gordon, 483 F. Supp. 2d 605, 614-616 (N.D. Ill. 2007).

In Bryant, a photographer sued for damages after he sold photographs of military snipers in Ghillie suits to a producer of “military motivational materials.” The photographs were incorporated into posters, coffee mugs, and the like, with slogans. When the first purchaser went bankrupt, its assets were purchased by a second similar enterprise. When ths purchaser began to run low on inventory , he hired a new photographer to take new shots of individuals in a pose and attire similar to the snipers in the shots originally taken and sold by plaintiff. In the subsequent law suit, the photographer (the first one) contended that the new work infringed his copyright, in part, because the new photographs used the same poses.

The court’s ultimate decision involved a number of different issues beyond the fairly narrow issue of whether a “pose” is itself copyrightable. The easily-framed issue actually offers a really fascinating entry into a number of different doctrines of copyright law. The court noted:

In some cases, the contrived positioning of a subject has been protected, but in other cases, poses have not been considered to be copyrightable elements because they are inherent in the subject matter or are otherwise unorginal. See, e.g., Gentieu v. Tony Stone Images/Chicago, Inc., 255 F. Supp. 2d 838, 847 (N.D. Ill. 2003) (finding that photographer could not establish infringement claim because the poses and images flowed necessarily from the subject matter of naked babies and therefore were not original).

Defendants rely on Gentieu to argue that the pose of the sniper team in the Bryant photo is not a
...Show more

Bryant v. Gordon, 483 F. Supp. 2d 605, 614-616 (N.D. Ill. 2007)

The Copyright Act expressly provides in pertinent part that: “n no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work." 17 U.S.C. §§ 102(b). Thus, a copyright protects only the expression of ideas, not the ideas themselves. See Wildlife Express Corp. v. Carol Wright Sales, Inc., 18 F.3d 502, 507 (7th Cir. 1994).

Given the rationale of promoting the arts that underlies copyright law, courts furthermore have the obligation and discretion to interpret copyright narrowly to avoid granting an effective monopoly over an idea where the idea in question can only be expressed in a limited number of ways.

I agree, by the way, that a practical response is often the optimum means of resolving this sort of potential dispute. "O.k., you say you have a copyright, you 'bout licensing me to shoot this pose, and I'll make sure to credit you when I post the shot on my web site?" I would be interest, as well, in whether or not the studen realized that her dancing and other activities during the course of instruction were subject to her instructor's copyright - after all, the dancer's performance is, absolutely, a "unique expression" protected by copyright.

Great question!


Edited on Aug 22, 2008 at 02:02 PM



Aug 22, 2008 at 02:00 PM
RGS65
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p.2 #18 · Dance Pose Copyright


Ok Liam, maybe a little strong - I agree - but I was kinda struck by the way people were so flippant about someone elses art work.

liamh wrote:
Great attitude




Aug 22, 2008 at 02:35 PM
tedbare
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p.2 #19 · Dance Pose Copyright


Was the choreographer suggesting that the poses were original works and that nobody could subsequently strike those poses without her consent?

BTW, my wife's a choreographer with copyrighted works that include elements (poses, leaps, etc.) that have been seen in the works of others. She said (tongue in cheek) that she now needs to know which poses (and other choreographical elements) might be copyrighted so she doesn't infringe on other choreographers' IP.

Gimme a break. I'd need to see an actual copyright on a pose to believe the that USPTO will grant one.



Aug 22, 2008 at 04:55 PM
papageno
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p.2 #20 · Dance Pose Copyright


The sad part of this is that it could be serious.......

Makes me think of all the mediocre pictures posted on the web that contain a large copyright notice.

Edited on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:10 PM



Aug 22, 2008 at 05:08 PM
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