Dance Pose Copyright

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kaydee
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p.1 #1 · Dance Pose Copyright

I photographed a child's dance poses in my studio while the teacher was coaching her. I do realize that I own the copyright to the photographs, but what I was surprised was that the dance teacher informed me that I cannot display these images without a written permission from her as she owns the copyright on the poses.

Is she just blowing hot air or can a teacher claim copyright on dance expressions/poses ?

Any help ?

Kay Dee

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:07 AM

SKYWESTR
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p.1 #2 · Dance Pose Copyright

I don't really understand how the poses could be so different than any other instructor's to warrant copyrighting them. Then again, if the instructor was posing the child and all you were doing was pressing the shutter....it would make a little sense, since the instructor is providing more creative essence to your photo. pretty hard to prove though.

carl

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:15 AM

rickmorealnd
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p.1 #3 · Dance Pose Copyright

I would ask her for verification of the copyright from the copyright office. It may be so that works of art are de facto copyrighted at the time of creation, it is meaningless without registration. Chances are she is as unknowledgeble about the law as most people and thinks that a pose is copyrightable as soon as she thinks it up. Choreography is copyrightable, but I doubt if a static postion is.
If she caught someone in her pose in public, could she sue?

Edited on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:32 AM

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:31 AM

badfish
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p.1 #4 · Dance Pose Copyright

You cannot copyright a pose.

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:32 AM

njjuliano
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p.1 #5 · Dance Pose Copyright

To add. Isnt there a photographer in Hawaii that did exactly this, copyright a pose? And even more, it was a popular pose of a dance.

quick google:
http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C259362623/E20071101192150/index.html

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:46 AM

GCasey
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p.1 #6 · Dance Pose Copyright

Googling on the question turned up this information:

"NEW DELHI: The United States has denied granting patents and trademarks for the ancient Indian practice of yoga, popular among western celebrities, a statement from the US embassy said Tuesday.

"Recent media reports alleging that such patents exist are inaccurate," the statement said.

The US government has conducted a search of all patents issued and no patent on yoga, "asans" or exercises have been identified, it said."

This has no connection to dance poses, though it is somewhat similar.

Rick's suggestion that you ask for written proof from the US Copyright Office is valid. If she claims to have a copyright, she needs to show it.

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:53 AM

donrisi
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p.1 #7 · Dance Pose Copyright

I hate to say this, but choreography can indeed be copyrighted. A "dance pose" is one moment in a choreographed dance, and can, therefore, be copyrighted.

I've worked with numerous dancers and dance companies over the last 40 years in numerous capacities, and I've seen it.

From page 3 of the document found on the US Copyright website (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf):

"Copyright protects “original works of authorship” that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device. Copyrightable works include the following categories:
1 literary works
2 musical works, including any accompanying words
3 dramatic works, including any accompanying music
4 pantomimes and choreographic works
5 pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
6 motion pictures and other audiovisual works
7 sound recordings
8 architectural works"

A "choreographic work" is a dance where a choreographer tells the dancer how to move, when to move and where to move. There may or may not be music or other accompanying sounds. A choreographer can simply instruct the dancer to make one move, and that is considered a "choreographic work" and that can be copyrighted.

In the case of the dance teacher telling the student how to pose, the teacher is acting as choreographer, and the student is acting as the dancer. The photographer is the audience.

Hate to say it, she may have a case.

BTW, this is the same law that protects photographs.

Sorry,

Don

Aug 21, 2008 at 05:15 AM

Daniel K
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p.1 #8 · Dance Pose Copyright

Good info, Thank you for sharing that.

Aug 21, 2008 at 05:50 AM

liamh
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p.1 #9 · Dance Pose Copyright

In a case like this I'd like to think the choreographer wouldn't have a leg to stand on - however she posed it - but I know a commercials director who lost a lot of money (over $1,000,000) trying win a similar copyright case here in the UK. Basically, it came down to who was the boss on the shoot. If you paid the instructor to do her job and told her what you were after, you are the boss and it's your copyright, but if not, then she's in a strong position.

Best option is, ask for written permission from all concerned.

Aug 21, 2008 at 09:03 AM

donrisi
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p.1 #10 · Dance Pose Copyright

liamh wrote:
In a case like this I'd like to think the choreographer wouldn't have a leg to stand on - however she posed it - but I know a commercials director who lost a lot of money (over $1,000,000) trying win a similar copyright case here in the UK. Basically, it came down to who was the boss on the shoot. If you paid the instructor to do her job and told her what you were after, you are the boss and it's your copyright, but if not, then she's in a strong position.

I'm not an IP attorney, but I believe in the US that's not the case. If it were, then the moment an "Art Director" walked into the studio, the photographer's right to claim the copyright on the photos being shot would go out the window. It's only in a specific instance, called "Work for Hire," where the creator of the work (photo, dance, architecture, whatever) gives up their right to claim copyright on the art work can someone else claim it.

In this case, the only thing on the positive side for the OP is the fact that while the teacher may be able to legally block the OP from displaying the photos, the OP can do the same to the teacher. Turnabout is fair play.

Don

Aug 21, 2008 at 11:37 AM

-rce-
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p.1 #11 · Dance Pose Copyright

and, if the photographer were to make a minor adjustment to the pose so that it would be 'more photogenic', would the photographer then become the choreographer?

Aug 21, 2008 at 12:03 PM

liamh
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p.1 #12 · Dance Pose Copyright

Complex isn't it

Aug 21, 2008 at 12:24 PM

DLNB
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p.1 #13 · Dance Pose Copyright

What a joke.

Aug 21, 2008 at 12:33 PM

mostlyprudent
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p.1 #14 · Dance Pose Copyright

A pose is NOT subject to copyright protection. A photograph of the pose would be, but the pose itself would only be an element of the "work" that is copyrighted. Who owns the copyright in the photo is a very different question from whether or not a pose is copyrightable. Similarly, choriography is NOT copyrightable itself. The "performance" of the choriography fixed on video or film can be copyrighted, but that does not provide any protection for the individual choriographic elements.

As for who owns this photo, it really should be quite simple. Did the instructor hire you to document her instruction technique? If not, you own the copyright in the photo. For the instructor to make a lcaim under U.S. copyright law, she would have to show that you were producing a "work made for hire". Not likely.

Edited by mostlyprudent on Aug 21, 2008 at 07:47 AM GMT

Edited on Aug 21, 2008 at 12:47 PM

Aug 21, 2008 at 12:44 PM

jerryrock
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p.1 #15 · Dance Pose Copyright

A pose is not choreography. Choreography involves movement that is recorded.

http://www.dancehere.com/copyrighting-choreography/

There are other issues involved here:

1. The OP is the studio owner, did she hire the dance instructor?
2. Was there a contract involved?

Aug 21, 2008 at 12:46 PM

tedbare
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p.1 #16 · Dance Pose Copyright

+1 for mostlyprudent. I can't imagine that a choreographer has the right to copyright a pose any more than a writer has the right to copyright a word.

Aug 21, 2008 at 02:09 PM

Ed Peters
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p.1 #17 · Dance Pose Copyright

I would go with the choreographer, directing the subject in movement (which would include being stationary), being the creator and therefor have the copyright. YMMV

Aug 21, 2008 at 02:30 PM

Numpty
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p.1 #18 · Dance Pose Copyright

It is like saying that because someone owns a burger bar they can sue you if you set one up on the grounds that you copied them.

Aug 21, 2008 at 02:35 PM

paulhodson
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p.1 #19 · Dance Pose Copyright

liamh wrote:
I'd like to think the choreographer wouldn't have a leg to stand on

I can't believe you said that

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:21 PM

Genes Home
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p.1 #20 · Dance Pose Copyright

Interesting discussion............but IF the pose (as a pose, not as a photograph) can be copyrighted......the dance instructor/coreographer will have to abide by the law and actually submit a copyright registration within 90 days of generation/use of the photograph. To prevail in court, however, he/she would also have to show that it was an original pose not otherwise in use by any other firm/activity prior to her registration of the pose (also see Jerryrock's comment above).....which will probably be impossible if the photographer has a good lawyer...

Since the teacher was working for the studio owner/photographer, and depending on the employment contract, a strong case could probably be made that the work generated by the teacher was "work for hire" and the studio owner owned all rights, especially if the student was paying the studio owner directly and not the teacher.

Bottom line, expensive for all, and most likely not worth the fight, as it would have to be settled in federal court.

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:32 PM

DixPix
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p.1 #21 · Dance Pose Copyright

Copyrighting a pose as part of a choreographic work would be like copyrighting a note as part of a piece of music.

If that guy in Hawai'i could find another photograph of the same hula pose, he could copy that assuming he had that photographer's permission. If he took a photo of the pose, he'd be home free but only in terms of future copies of his own photo.

About Burger Bars:

Here in Austin, several years ago Fuddrucker's won a lawsuit against a restaurant called Pedunkle's because they said Pedunkle's copied their format. Pedunkle's had a quieter, more up-scale atmosphere but they did have a set-up where the customer dressed his own burgers. Pedunkle's was forced to close. Bummer!

Dick

Aug 21, 2008 at 03:36 PM

Matt Cope
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p.1 #22 · Dance Pose Copyright

As the original poster's avatar does not say which country they live (and work) in. It is impossible to advise them about the legal situation. All the above advice and comment is meaningless with that location information.

Edited on Aug 21, 2008 at 04:26 PM

Aug 21, 2008 at 04:25 PM

liamh
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p.1 #23 · Dance Pose Copyright

paulhodson wrote:
liamh wrote:
I'd like to think the choreographer wouldn't have a leg to stand on

I can't believe you said that

Glad someone got it

I did have a line that involved lawyer's dancing to their own tune...

Edited by liamh on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:25 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:25 PM

Aug 21, 2008 at 04:30 PM

forrest5000
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p.1 #24 · Dance Pose Copyright

liamh wrote:
paulhodson wrote:
liamh wrote:
I'd like to think the choreographer wouldn't have a leg to stand on

I can't believe you said that

Glad someone got it

I did have a that involved lawyer's dancing to their own tune...
your talents you are wasted here!

I would go for the following based on my research in the field, although we were looking at patents.

Copyright it the right of copy and while it has been expanded to cover other forms of intellectual property (IP) I don't believe that a pose would be covered, a piece of choreographic work which is in essence a script, similar to a play or film script, could be.
Either way the only ones who will make money out of this argument the lawyers

John

Aug 21, 2008 at 05:18 PM

dmacmillan
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p.1 #25 · Dance Pose Copyright

While there's been a lot of discussion of the intricacies of copyright law, I can't find a post that asks an obvious question: What is the instructor after? It may be something as simple as a tag line giving her credit, hoping for some exposure.

How did she wind up at the shoot to begin with? That seems a little odd if it was just a photo for the parents that the dance instructor would be brought in. Who asked her to be there? Was she paid?

Does she allow parents to photograph their children at recitals? I think I'd be tempted to say to her: "Gee, I'd hate to see your business hurt if a rumor got out that you threaten to sue your student's parents if they take a photo of their child in one of your copyrighted poses!"

Doug

Aug 21, 2008 at 05:47 PM


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