50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

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Archive 2008 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

RikWriter
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p.6 #1 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

Not hardly. There have been accurate rumors about the 5D and the 40D in the past.

Aug 22, 2008 at 04:51 PM

brainiac
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p.6 #2 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

Juan55 wrote:
An APS-C sensor with 15 Mpx ... whats about noise, AA filter, resolution with the actual lenses ?? I would expect IQ problems...

The G9 has a far denser sensor than 15Mpx 1.6 crop. It seems to sell well. The challenge is making good enough lenses to make all the pixels count, but consumers don't seem to care about that, they just want megapixels so they can say mine's got more.

As regards noise, again, noise is primarily a factor of sensor SIZE, NOT DENSITY, so noise will be perfectly ok AS LONG AS YOU MEASURE IT BY LOOKING AT IMAGES instead of zooming to 100%. Most consumers are quite happy with the 800 iso performance of their IXUSes. In short, expect your high iso images to be far less noisy than a G9 at the same iso, and also expect PER IMAGE (not per pixel) noise performance to be as good, if not better, than any APS-C Canon so far. Cell density is NOT a deciding factor with noise. Sensor size, micro-lens efficiency, electronics efficiency and noise reduction are way more important.

In other words, there will not be any IQ problems except that 50D buyers will see a great benefit in sharpness if they decide to buy a super-duper new Canon prime or zoom, which Canon will obviously be very unhappy about.

Edited on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:38 PM

Aug 22, 2008 at 05:33 PM

brainiac
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p.6 #3 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

> I'd be amazed if they replaced the 40D after a mere 12 months and many won't like what that'll do to the value of their 40D

I know that quote is from way back, but I keep reading this sentiment and just don't understand it. The existing 40D's will go on working just as well as they do when a new camera comes out. There is no penalty for Canon in accelerating it's development as long as the new camera will sell well. In recent times the market has been growing well, so those who want camera development to cease with their existing model can safely be ignored.

Aug 22, 2008 at 05:38 PM

Kurt Paris
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p.6 #4 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

one thing that will definitely happen with shorter product cycles is that the prices of 'used' cameras will tend towards other electronics and depreciate faster. Which in my humble opinion makes sense - i still dont understand how people choose to buy 2nd hand bodies when saving tiny amounts :S

Aug 22, 2008 at 05:57 PM

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p.6 #5 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

brainiac wrote:
The G9 has a far denser sensor than 15Mpx 1.6 crop. It seems to sell well. The challenge is making good enough lenses to make all the pixels count, but consumers don't seem to care about that, they just want megapixels so they can say mine's got more.

As regards noise, again, noise is primarily a factor of sensor SIZE, NOT DENSITY, so noise will be perfectly ok AS LONG AS YOU MEASURE IT BY LOOKING AT IMAGES instead of zooming to 100%. Most consumers are quite happy with the 800 iso performance of their IXUSes. In short, expect your high iso images to be far less noisy than a G9 at the same iso, and also expect PER IMAGE (not per pixel) noise performance to be as good, if not better, than any APS-C Canon so far. Cell density is NOT a deciding factor with noise. Sensor size, micro-lens efficiency, electronics efficiency and noise reduction are way more important.

In other words, there will not be any IQ problems except that 50D buyers will see a great benefit in sharpness if they decide to buy a super-duper new Canon prime or zoom, which Canon will obviously be very unhappy about.

Most of us don't want ISO performance on par with a G9, we want it on par with or even better than the 5D but in an APS-C format. Your statement about image size is correct - an 8x10 is always an 8x10, and more smaller pixels should come out to a similar net result. However, 2 small blobs of noise combined together isn't better than 1 larger blob, and that's where my concern is. I have a bad feeling that ISO 6400+ on this new sensor is simply going to be a gimmick, and at 3200 not perform any better than my 20D.

Aug 22, 2008 at 06:22 PM

johnnydanger
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p.6 #6 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

Face detection... really? People seem to think it'd be easy in a DSLR, but am I the only one that realizes that the focus mechanism in a DSLR is completely different than in a point and shoot? I could see them doing face detection in Live VIew, but I don't see how focus points could see heads and faces... I don't think it's possible unless you had many many more focus points. Live View maybe though since the camera is seeing the complete image rather than little dots of it.

Aug 22, 2008 at 06:47 PM

brainiac
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p.6 #7 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

timbop wrote:
Most of us don't want ISO performance on par with a G9...

I didn't say the 50D noise performance PER IMAGE would be on a par with the G9. I said it would be far better. Sensor size rules when it comes to image noise.

>...we want it on par with or even better than the 5D but in an APS-C format.

Then get a 450D. The 450D has two and a half years more development behind it and already snaps at the heels of the 5D in image quality at high isos.

> Your statement about image size is correct - an 8x10 is always an 8x10, and more smaller pixels should come out to a similar net result.

Glad we agree.

> However, 2 small blobs of noise combined together isn't better than 1 larger blob, and that's where my concern is.

Well, assuming that you mean the two small blobs to take up the same area as the 1 big one, then PER IMAGE noise will be on a par, but detail will be significantly better in the two pixels, especially if you happen to set a lower iso for a change. Noise really does average out. Downrez hard and it's gone, almost. That's why pixel density is pretty much irrelevant to the noise issue.

> I have a bad feeling that ISO 6400+ on this new sensor is simply going to be a gimmick, and at 3200 not perform any better than my 20D.

If Canon has copied Nikon's plasticky chroma-noise-reduction feature in the Digic4 to enable higher isos, I think many Canon buyers will be duped too, so 6400 iso should get rave reviews. The loss of chroma detail is seldom mentioned by Nikon D3 reviewers. I only hope Canon makes sure we can turn plasticky chroma NR off. The 450D seems already to be better at iso 3200 than a 20D, and I expect the 50D will match the 450 at least, especially with the plasticman filter on.

Edited on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:22 PM

Aug 22, 2008 at 10:20 PM

abam
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p.6 #8 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

no substitute for human contact.

Aug 22, 2008 at 10:28 PM

JonStafford
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p.6 #9 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

RikWriter wrote:
EltonTeng wrote:
Ben Horne wrote:
You guys who are mocking this thread will be red faced shortly

Ben,

This would be the first time someone gets one right. Hardly the justification for the crowing.

Not hardly. There have been accurate rumors about the 5D and the 40D in the past.

If you throw a bunch of sh** at the wall, something's bound to stick

Edited on Aug 24, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Aug 24, 2008 at 11:06 PM

gazzajagman
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p.6 #10 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

crivera wrote:
Visualperceptions

I now is hard to belive but wait copule weeks and you will see that I'm correct.
I can't tell more because...
The 5D replacement (I don't now the name yet) will be anounce in September and will come out with even more MP (around 21).

Any other specs? FPS? Size? Price? Weather sealing? Will it look like a 5D or a 1DIII?

Aug 25, 2008 at 09:40 PM

Cicindela
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p.6 #11 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

EltonTeng wrote:
Ben Horne wrote:
You guys who are mocking this thread will be red faced shortly

Ben,

This would be the first time someone gets one right. Hardly the justification for the crowing.

Ben is quite right.
In addition there were correct rumors and web page leaks with the 5D and MKIIN. Both were mocked as BS. People even reposted the leaked images of the 5D, pointing to all the parts of the photos that "proved" they were fake. Of course there are a lot of false and made up rumors that come out from time to time, But instead of being open minded and trying to critically look at the source we get a lot of sarcastic reticule. ( not in the quotes above}

Edited on Aug 25, 2008 at 11:34 PM

Aug 25, 2008 at 11:29 PM

Hammerli
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p.6 #12 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

Mattbtn wrote:
So, a "good" friend called you today from the Canon dealer meeting, and he felt more compelled to talk to you about future P&S cameras instead of new SLRs?

Hmmm...
JDSA wrote:
Exactly! Is that rotten fish that I smell?

Better check that fridge, I think it is next to the egg in yours. Sometimes information is just that; I love all the pessimists here, after the fact they silently let all their accusations and wise cracks fall off into the page history.

Edited on Aug 28, 2008 at 12:52 AM

Aug 28, 2008 at 12:49 AM

EltonTeng
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p.6 #13 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

Hammerli wrote:
Mattbtn wrote:
So, a "good" friend called you today from the Canon dealer meeting, and he felt more compelled to talk to you about future P&S cameras instead of new SLRs?

Hmmm...
JDSA wrote:
Exactly! Is that rotten fish that I smell?

Better check that fridge, I think it is next to the egg in yours. Sometimes information is just that; I love all the pessimists here, after the fact they silently let all their accusations and wise cracks fall off into the page history.

Cicindela wrote:

Ben is quite right.
In addition there were correct rumors and web page leaks with the 5D and MKIIN. Both were mocked as BS. People even reposted the leaked images of the 5D, pointing to all the parts of the photos that "proved" they were fake. Of course there are a lot of false and made up rumors that come out from time to time, But instead of being open minded and trying to critically look at the source we get a lot of sarcastic reticule. ( not in the quotes above}

Right - so here comes the "how does my a$$ taste" posts. I will maintain that while you have it right, it's only one (or three or four) among the hundreds of similar rumors that have come up since the 5D/1d2N leaks. Crow all you want.

The fact is that information without a credible source with specific names and references is as good as any other rumor: useless. Your original post is exactly like all other like type rumors (... I have an insider source I can't name...)

You can of course have the last word. We all bow in shame.

Edited on Aug 28, 2008 at 01:09 AM

Aug 28, 2008 at 12:55 AM

Hammerli
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p.6 #14 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

EltonTeng wrote:
Right - so here comes the "how does my a$$ taste" posts. I will maintain that while you have it right, it's only one (or three or four) among the hundreds of similar rumors that have come up since the 5D/1d2N leaks. Crow all you want.

The fact is that information without a credible source with specific names and references is as good as any other rumor: useless. Your original post is exactly like all other like type rumors (... I have an insider source I can't name...)

You can of course have the last word. We all bow in shame.

So you would prefer only Canon corporate releases be the source of information on gear forums? The fact is at some point it is no longer rumors but fact, regardless of whether or not you like where the facts originated. What I posted was from a dealer, who was correct, and received his info from Canon, and thus what I posted were facts not rumors, again regardless of whether you find that "credible", those facts remain. In the future no need to read any of the informative threads I post as I'm sure they'll be just as irritating to you irrespective of their validity, that way you can qualify me as a rumorist and let others form their own opinions based on my history as opposed to the history of others as you have done.

Edited on Aug 28, 2008 at 01:22 AM

Aug 28, 2008 at 01:21 AM

EltonTeng
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p.6 #15 · 50D to come with 18-200 in kit.

Hammerli wrote:

So you would prefer only Canon corporate releases be the source of information on gear forums? The fact is at some point it is no longer rumors but fact, regardless of whether or not you like where the facts originated. What I posted was from a dealer, who was correct, and received his info from Canon, and thus what I posted were facts not rumors, again regardless of whether you find that "credible", those facts remain. In the future no need to read any of the informative threads I post as I'm sure they'll be just as irritating to you irrespective of their validity, that way you can qualify me as a rumorist and let others form their own opinions based on my history as opposed to the history of others as you have done.

On the contrary - I have vowed in another thread to run with every rumor started by anyone on this board based on your one correct rumor (which is now fact as you astitutely pointed out.)

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/680964

In fact, I will make it a point to PM you each time a rumor is posted to get your opinion and verification since you have a good source.

Edited on Aug 28, 2008 at 01:42 AM

Aug 28, 2008 at 01:36 AM


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