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Archive 2008 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube
  
 
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p.1 #1 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


Tired on the D300 with the Nikkor Macro 60mm on the Kenko Extension Tube. Manual focused. 1/125 and on f32. Shot at 3pm sun. No post-processing done.

Photos show random ants in the garden nibbling on my corn bits!
Photos didnt turn out sharp and clear. Any reason for that? Thank you.

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100% crop

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Edited on Aug 02, 2008 at 03:43 PM


Aug 02, 2008 at 03:42 PM
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p.1 #2 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


those are not bad at all for a first try.
What you could try, if you own a flash, is to use a wireless flash to get more light. This might remove any motion blur since you seem to shoot hand held. I would also use f16-f22 instead of f32 to increase IQ. Last point, focus accuracy is really very important. If not on a tripod, what I usually do is to try to find the in-focus point by moving very slowly along the viewing axis, and to press the shutter button when the picture is sharp (instead of correcting focus on the lens).

Guy

Aug 02, 2008 at 03:56 PM
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p.1 #3 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


f/32 and 1/125?

As Guy suggests, open up your aperture and increase your shutter speed. You're in diffraction territory at such a small aperture. And be very careful with your focus.

~Ted

Aug 02, 2008 at 04:17 PM
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p.1 #4 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


thanks guys. im still working on it. i think doing macro on moving moving objects are very challenging and yes im doing it handheld. i was on all fours and it hurt! do you have any good resources for macro photography?
thanks!

Aug 02, 2008 at 04:55 PM
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p.1 #5 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


I remember when I was shooting very fast moving ants in the woods (with film and AFD 60mm micro) for some biology projects when i was in university, i set the lens in MF mode, i wasn't really trying to focus them by turning the focus ring but instead move the camera (and arms)back and forth, fire when it's in focus (you can try to set the camera in focus piority).

A flash can help too.

Aug 02, 2008 at 05:07 PM
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p.1 #6 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


I agree with Ted. Using such a small aperture is probably one of the biggest factors that caused poor quality. I would try something around f/8 or f/11. Also, ants can move pretty fast so I would recommend faster speeds... also additional lighting can't hurt. I would invest in a tripod and a cable release... just to make your life easier .

Aug 02, 2008 at 05:18 PM
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p.1 #7 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


Kneepads from the flower shop would be a good investment if you plan on spending time on the ground hunting them. Seriously.

D50 and 105mm f2.8D non-VR macro, handheld, on my excursions last year with it



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The background here is the netting used for the butterfly house, hence the patterns



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Aug 02, 2008 at 05:22 PM
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p.1 #8 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


thank you guys.

but what would a tripod really help when the object is moving, or when one has to move the camera back and forth to focus? wouldnt the tripod be hindering it?

would you also think by having a 105mm instead of a 60mm be of any help?
i had thought the IQ was due to the lens, but the 60mm macro has been and was recommended. any clue? (apart from the aperature).

Aug 02, 2008 at 05:26 PM
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p.1 #9 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


in a tripod you need a Focusing Rail design for Macro photography

Aug 02, 2008 at 05:30 PM
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p.1 #10 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


More shots that i tried after taking your advice on a f11 and f8, shutter at 1/125.
your learned comments please.

ps: the shots are still not sharp at all.

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if I remove the 3 extension tubes (using 12+20+36 Xtubes)

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Aug 02, 2008 at 06:19 PM
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p.1 #11 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


Give yourself time to learn. Moving the camera in and out and judging focus at the same moment is not easy as it sounds. By the time you realize the photo is in focus, and tell your finger to press the shutter, you are out of the focus zone.

Aug 02, 2008 at 06:32 PM
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p.1 #12 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


You're using more extension with the three tubes than the focal length of the lens. Your maximum focus distance is probably only inches in front of the lens and minimum distance is likely INSIDE the lens. So, too much extension.

Now, with no extension your focus is still off. Are you sure you're not too close to the ants? DOF is still thin and I'm having a hard time figuring out where the focus is, but it appears to be a little more than half way between your lens and the background. Move back and forth and use your DOF preview button to see if that helps with your focus. And try using just 20mm of extension for starters.

~Ted

Aug 02, 2008 at 06:36 PM
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p.1 #13 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


I would say 1/125 is not fast enough. For macros 1/focal length rule is not enough...at least that doesn't work for me.

but what would a tripod really help when the object is moving
I think that depend on subject. I was shooting some very fast moving ants so a tripod wasn't any helpful (i did have a tripod with me). But in your case, a tripod with focus rail might work since you can point the camera to the corn since the ants seems ain't moving the corn around.

I 'd try to set the aperture around 16-22 as well. on one hand you want lower diffraction but on the other hand you need to consider DOF. You need to compromise between the two. I'm not sure whether micro lens are designed better to handle diffractions, but the 60mm can go down to f64 (at 1:1) and i don't think it's a pointless setting.

the ants are very tiny? why need a ext tube? the 60 focus real close at it's cloest setting and if you put a ext tube at on top of its cloest setting you lens can easily block the light. Also, flash can be very helpful, it can give faster shutter speed and with flash you can also cut ambient light using very small aperture or very fast shutter and that will give you a very different look.

Kneepads from the flower shop would be a good investment if you plan on spending time on the ground hunting them. Seriously.
+1



Aug 02, 2008 at 06:40 PM
 



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p.1 #14 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


Just to get a feel of how close i am...

normal 60mm macro with no extension tubes ...

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note that with no extension tubes, photos are clear, crisp and sharp. but the object is not very close. i want to get to very close to objects, especially like the ants above....

I took the fence post from the garden with the 60mm marco with no tubes...

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and with the extension tubes... a shot of the screw...

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Aug 02, 2008 at 06:41 PM
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p.1 #15 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


You need to bump that shutter speed WAY up and lower that aperture to f/11 or so. At f/32, you are diffraction limited in a big way. Get a tripod, a hand trigger and put the shutter speed at 1/500th or higher.

If you have a flash, that's always good. Put a diffuser on it so you don't get super harsh light.

Aug 02, 2008 at 07:27 PM
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p.1 #16 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


ytwong wrote:
I remember when I was shooting very fast moving ants in the woods (with film and AFD 60mm micro) for some biology projects when i was in university, i set the lens in MF mode, i wasn't really trying to focus them by turning the focus ring but instead move the camera (and arms)back and forth, fire when it's in focus (you can try to set the camera in focus piority).

A flash can help too.


This is the technique I am forced to use. My only macro lens is a 105 2.8 AIS. Optically, I'm totally satisfied. But I generally shoot insects at f/16 with a diffused SB-800 off camera and in my left hand which I hold over my subject. I then slowly move the camera until it appears in focus and snap. It is a clunky method, but occasionally gets decent results.

D300/105 2.8/48mm kenko tubes/SB-800



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Edited on Aug 02, 2008 at 08:36 PM


Aug 02, 2008 at 08:36 PM
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p.1 #17 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


f/11, 1/500 and a flash are these the key elements to macro?

im checking out for a dedicated macro flash. anyone has got any to recommend?

Aug 02, 2008 at 09:06 PM
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p.1 #18 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


you have a dust bunny on your sensor, look at the right side of your images @ F32, there's a black dot on each image...

Aug 02, 2008 at 09:14 PM
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p.1 #19 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


D300 wrote:
f/11, 1/500 and a flash are these the key elements to macro?

im checking out for a dedicated macro flash. anyone has got any to recommend?



Not exactly, but a decent starting point. DOF is extremely thin in macro shots. f/8 to f/11 will result in a very limited amount of the image in focus. That can be a good thing. It depends on what you want the observer to notice in the image. Optically, this is going to usually be the sweet area of most macro lenses. Shooting at f/22-32 will result in more of the frame in focus, but you're going to lose image quality to diffraction. A work around for this is focus stacking. I can't elaborate here because I know little about it. But multiple images are taken at an aperture that yields high image qual, but at different focus points. The images are then combined for amazing results. Check the Macro forum here. Faster shutter speed helps to prevent motion of camera/subject, the same as general photography. I tend to use the fastest shutter my camera body will sync. Using flash for control of lighing and shadows in the image. Flash will generally make details in images a little more crisp with some practice.

Aug 02, 2008 at 09:43 PM
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p.1 #20 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


One thing that works for me, when shooting handheld macro with a 105f/2.8, is to use continuous focus mode. (AF-C) I know it sounds strange, but try it. With your finger at half-press on the shutter (or holding down the AF-ON button) listen to focus motor constantly adjusting as you try to hold the camera still on a subject. Its especially effective with the "Lock-On" (menu a5 on a D200) set to OFF... the focus motor just purs while it keeps whatever your pointed at in focus. I've gotten many more in-focus (hand-held) macro shots like this.

Aug 03, 2008 at 02:24 AM
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p.1 #21 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


I'll jump in here with some general comments.

1. When chasing little buggers around a tripod doesn't really help much. It is, however, critical when doing static work. For what you are doing a monopod, one with 4-5 sections so that it is really short when compressed, may be a better deal. It will give you a lot more stability, while still letting you move the camera back and forth to control focus.

2. With a 60mm lens you probably don't want to use more than a single extension tube, no more than 15-24 mm. Your photo of the screw head looks like diffraction effects, with possibly some camera shake.

3. I will also second using no more than f/11, f/16 at the most, and the fastest shutter speed you can. A trick I use is taping the little Nikon remote release to my monopod so that I can release the shutter with it instead of handling the camera. I am not as steady as a lot of the younger folk on the forum, so anything I can do to lessen camera shake is worth it.

4. I have had great results with my SB800 flash and the provided diffuser, but I also have the R1C1 close up flash rig with it's two ring mounted baby flashes, and its just a ball of fun to work with -- pricey though. In any event you want the flash set for fill flash, not total illumination. This gives you less of a flash (shorter flash), and a faster recharge rate so you can keep shooting. With the 60mm lens (actually, anything less than about 150mm) you will definately want to use the flash off camera, with a sync cord (Nikon makes several) or a wireless release.

4.b. Look at the Sigma 140 ring flash. Totally compatible with the Nikon system and not a bad price. Also lets you fire either or both of the flash tubes in the ring so you can control lighting and shadows. Just be sure to purchase the correct size mounting ring (see the B&H website).

5. Focus stacking probably won't work for you, as it requires you have a motionless or nearly motionless object.

6. Manual focus vs auto focus is something you need to work out on your own. In bright daylight I will let my 70-200 VR with its 1.4 tele-extender run on autofocus, same for my Sigma 150, but only if I am working off my monopod or a tripod. In anything else I cut over to manual focus and use camera movement to do the final focusing. Everyone is a bit different on this, so play with it till you are happy.

7. My next-to-last suggesstion is probably the most important one. Get a little notepad and a pen to carry with you. Take LOTS of photos, varying one thing at a time. Stop between photo sets and write down your observations and how you took each set of photos. When you upload the photos onto your computer, open the notepad and cross out everything that didn't work well, then make a little "cheat sheet" of what did work in which situations and use that as your starting point the next day.

8. My last suggestion is two fold. Amazon.com for John Shaw's "Closeups in Nature" book. Its old, but its great, walking the basics into the advanced and explaining it all the way. And search out "Dalantech" and "his "No Cropping Zone" on the web. Its a really great series of "how to" do macro work.

By the way, welcome to the forum and to the micro world. Glad to have you here.

Aug 03, 2008 at 02:57 AM
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p.1 #22 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


thank you everyone for your learned opinions. i'll need to improve on my macro skills. many thanks to Genes Home for your informative comments. i'll try to get hold of the books and read up on Dalantech.

I'll try the various f and shutter speed numbers and do what i can to take the best shots. today is particularly cloudy and im staying indoors. i just missed a butterfly shot from my garden a moment ago. by the time i got my kit out, it had flown away.

thanks all, greatly appreciated and i'll work on it. thank you and God bless.

Aug 03, 2008 at 03:51 PM
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p.1 #23 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


According to the exif data the iso of your unsharp photos is 3200 and the sharp ones are 200.

I think it is a mixture of the high iso you were using plus the m/f issue. The in focus indicator isn't always right especially in low light i have found. I have put a flash light on subjects to focus the camera then turned it off when i make my exposure with my m/f lenses in low light.

Also try playing with some flash so you can get a better shutter speed at low iso as mentioned before. Macro is tuff I haven't got it down yet but these are some things I have ran into.

Aug 03, 2008 at 10:06 PM
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p.1 #24 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


has anyone compared the following in terms of IQ as a macro photography? i cant find any post on these 3 lenses being compared simultaneously:

60mm macro (f2.8)
105mm macro (f2.8)
70-180mm macro (this is a f4.5-5.6)

or if anyone has used all 3 and compared them, please post your comments.

Aug 05, 2008 at 08:53 AM
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p.1 #25 · Macro with 60mm + Extension Tube


i've never heard of any "bad" macro lens in terms of IQ. Even 3rd party lens are very good. Most of the dedicated macro lens have MTF > 4. You can make your choice by FL which give you good working distant and perspective.

Aug 05, 2008 at 10:54 AM




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