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Archive 2008 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

kennmon
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p.1 #1 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

lets say one had lenses of identical focal length and wide open aperture, what creates different bokeh characteristics?

of course this is excluding having a fancy gradient element like the minolta STF

Jul 05, 2008 at 08:23 PM

John Black
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p.1 #2 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

I'm not saying this guy has all the right answers, but he's willing to write way more on the topic than I am

http://bokehtests.com/Site/About_Bokeh.html

Jul 05, 2008 at 08:52 PM

jjlphoto
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p.1 #3 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

Here's another:
http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/bokeh.html

Oh yeah... what is the correct pronunciation? Rhymes with o-kay?

Edited on Jul 05, 2008 at 09:27 PM

Jul 05, 2008 at 09:21 PM

cogitech
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p.1 #4 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

kennmon wrote:
lets say one had lenses of identical focal length and wide open aperture, what creates different bokeh characteristics?

of course this is excluding having a fancy gradient element like the minolta STF

Well, the ratios of camera-to-subject distance and camera-to-background distance has the most dramatic effect on bokeh characteristics. But, if you rule those out, as well, by keeping them constant when comparing two lenses of the same focal length and aperture, then various optical aberrations and, often just as importantly, how those optical aberrations are (over) corrected, and how those aberrations (or lack thereof) change at different apertures; all this can also affect the qualities of the bokeh. Third, the number and shape of aperture blades certainly can affect the shape of the OOF highlights.

A good place to start reading about all this stuff: http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/bokeh.html

(A good place because it is based on physics, fact, and excellent research and it is very well written in my opinion.)

EDIT: Ah, looks like jjl beat me to it.

Edited on Jul 05, 2008 at 09:31 PM

Jul 05, 2008 at 09:28 PM

mh2000
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p.1 #5 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

a lot of lenses seem to give better bokeh when stopped down 1/2 stop... even if the lens opening is no longer perfectly round.

Jul 05, 2008 at 10:10 PM

cogitech
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p.1 #6 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

mh2000 wrote:
a lot of lenses seem to give better bokeh when stopped down 1/2 stop... even if the lens opening is no longer perfectly round.

I agree. Even better if it is perfectly round (or close enough).

Jul 05, 2008 at 11:49 PM

mh2000
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p.1 #7 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

what about those Zeiss "Ninja-star" lenses? thought they were better than the closer to round ones. Minox 8x11's also have a perfectly round aperture, but not the best bokeh either (even with their superb German optics).

Jul 06, 2008 at 02:59 AM

yugenm
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p.1 #8 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

jjlphoto wrote:
Here's another:
http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/bokeh.html

Oh yeah... what is the correct pronunciation? Rhymes with o-kay?

Boh (short) Keh. "Keh" is also short... it's like how you'd pronounce "Kuh," except the vowel is an 'e.' Every single character in Japanese is pronounced in this short, staccato fashion.

Jul 06, 2008 at 04:44 AM

StevenPA
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p.1 #9 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

jjlphoto wrote:
Oh yeah... what is the correct pronunciation? Rhymes with o-kay?

For better or worse, I pronounce it like this: /ˈboːkə/

Jul 06, 2008 at 04:54 AM

jjlphoto
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p.1 #10 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

Short "o" is like in hot? It's been a while since I was in school.

StevenPA, I still do recognize the "shwa e" [ə] believe it or not.

Edited on Jul 06, 2008 at 05:59 PM

Jul 06, 2008 at 05:58 PM

John Black
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p.1 #11 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

I pronounce it just like bouquet - as in a bouquet of flowers. If wine can have "bouquet", I figures that good enough for lenses. Stunning logic, no?

Jul 06, 2008 at 06:13 PM

yugenm
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p.1 #12 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

jjlphoto wrote:
Short "o" is like in hot? It's been a while since I was in school.

StevenPA, I still do recognize the "shwa e" [ə] believe it or not.

more like "oh." Except not drawn out.

Having Japanese immigrants for parents has its advantages

Jul 06, 2008 at 06:49 PM

cogitech
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p.1 #13 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

An easy way to make sure you say it close to correct (Japanese):

bo as in "boat"

ke as in ketchup.

The "h" is obviously silent and was added by westerners to give us a better chance at pronouncing it properly. In Romaji (Japanese written in Roman alphabet) it is spelled "boke".

Jul 06, 2008 at 08:07 PM

StevenPA
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p.1 #14 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

cogitech wrote:
correct (Japanese)

Not this again.

The word has Japanese origins. Great, wonderful. But that doesn't make the way it's pronounced in other languages inferior, which is what the label "correct" insinuates. I guess we had just better call it "outfocus" or something like that because even if we did master the Japanese language, we'd still probably have a foreign accent and thus say bokeh "incorrectly". Sorry for being pedantic.

Edited on Jul 07, 2008 at 02:40 AM

Jul 07, 2008 at 02:30 AM

Jman13
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p.1 #15 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

It's the correct way if it's a direct borrow of a word, rather than a word in our language that is from a foreign word.

Take:

Schadenfreude and hors d'ouvre.

Both are direct borrowing from the host language and incorporated into English. And both are properly pronounced the same way as they are in the native tongue.

Shah den froi de (like the ke in bokeh) and or durve (more or less). Not shayden frude and horse de oov ray.

Bokeh is another such word....it's a Japanese word that has made it into the lexicon of the photographic world because there isn't another word that exists in our native language to describe it.

Edited on Jul 07, 2008 at 02:44 AM

Jul 07, 2008 at 02:43 AM

Lotusm50
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p.1 #16 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

Exactemont!

Jman13 wrote:
It's the correct way if it's a direct borrow of a word, rather than a word in our language that is from a foreign word.

Take:

Schadenfreude and hors d'ouvre.

Both are direct borrowing from the host language and incorporated into English. And both are properly pronounced the same way as they are in the native tongue.

Shah den froi de (like the ke in bokeh) and or durve (more or less). Not shayden frude and horse de oov ray.

Bokeh is another such word....it's a Japanese word that has made it into the lexicon of the photographic world because there isn't another word that exists in our native language to describe it.

Jul 07, 2008 at 02:51 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #17 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

Exactement !!

Lotusm50 wrote:
Exactemont!

Jman13 wrote:
It's the correct way if it's a direct borrow of a word, rather than a word in our language that is from a foreign word.

Take:

Schadenfreude and hors d'ouvre.

Both are direct borrowing from the host language and incorporated into English. And both are properly pronounced the same way as they are in the native tongue.

Shah den froi de (like the ke in bokeh) and or durve (more or less). Not shayden frude and horse de oov ray.

Bokeh is another such word....it's a Japanese word that has made it into the lexicon of the photographic world because there isn't another word that exists in our native language to describe it.

Jul 07, 2008 at 02:56 AM

StevenPA
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p.1 #18 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

Jman13 wrote:
It's the correct way if it's a direct borrow of a word, rather than a word in our language that is from a foreign word.

How do yo pronounce "restaurant"? Unless you're a native speaker of French, your pronunciation is "incorrect".

Jul 07, 2008 at 03:03 AM

StevenPA
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p.1 #19 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

Jman13 wrote:
Shah den froi de (like the ke in bokeh) and or durve (more or less). Not shayden frude and horse de oov ray.

You're associating spelling with pronunciation, a dangerous thing to do. How should we pronounce "people" - pee -oh -plee?

Edited on Jul 07, 2008 at 03:15 AM

Jul 07, 2008 at 03:07 AM

Lotusm50
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p.1 #20 · Bokeh - What exactly makes it?

;-)

cogitech wrote:
Exactement !!

Edited on Jul 07, 2008 at 03:19 AM

Jul 07, 2008 at 03:16 AM

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