This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

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Archive 2008 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Jeff
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p.1 #1 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Just got home from a backpacking trip with the family, to find a large number of OOF images, usually at low-f/stop & high shutter speed, many of which have no apparent focal plane, exhibit ghosting, etc. Occurrences are practically random other than most are shot at f/2.8. About the only notable factor is that all shots were taken above 11,000' MSL, for whatever that is worth (IR light?).

I just don't get it. I know I'm focusing properly, etc., etc. Much of the time this camera works as one would expect, other times nowhere near adequately.

-Jeff

PS: No, returning this camera won't help. Until, that is, Canon owns up to it, and there is an actual fix.

2012 © Jeff

Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 11:32 PM

Jul 03, 2008 at 11:32 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Do you have the same problem at lower altitudes?

Jul 03, 2008 at 11:39 PM

PetKal
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p.1 #3 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Before we go anywhere with this, let us clarify one thing for the FM "pro" contingent first: What kinda tripod, MLU, remote release, live view ?

Edited by PetKal on Jul 03, 2008 at 06:41 PM GMT

Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 11:41 PM

Jul 03, 2008 at 11:39 PM

Gravitytoy
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p.1 #4 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Jeff - Don't you know how hard it is to hand-hold a shot at 60mm using only a shutter speed of 1/8000 s? This is especially true when you are shaking with anger at a pro camera that just won't focus!

All kidding aside, sorry to hear of your problems. Mine has been back to Canon 3x, and seems to be working okay, but I remember vividly how frustrating it is when no rhyme or reason exists for the OOF situation. In my case I had an art director over my shoulder reviewing the images and asking why a bunch were soft. Talk about embarrassing...

Hope it all works out.

-Rich

Jul 03, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Jeff
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p.1 #5 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Jim, the camera's never been below 5000', so I guess it depends on your perspective. At home (6000'), the results are better, but do see this occasionally.

PetKal,

.

Rich, I do know how hard it is. Seems to be harder, the faster the shutter speed!

Thanks.

~sigh~

Jul 03, 2008 at 11:43 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

AFAIK, the biggest changes in light as altitude increases are overall brightness and increased energy in the UV part of the spectrum. Of course, the sensor filter is supposed to take care of UV, n'est ce pas?

Jul 03, 2008 at 11:48 PM

brainiac
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p.1 #7 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

It really looks like either the sensor cleaning is running during the exposure, or the lens IS is freaking out during the exposure. More likely the sensor cleaning, as I'm not sure the IS is fast enough to create that much shake. The nature of the blur is odd: kind of sharp edged, like birefringence. A finite edge to blurring would be indicated by active sensor cleaning.

Bad luck Jeff. Very frustrating. I remember having endless problems with a Contax RTS3. I am sure it was the timing of the suction film plate. I am suspicious of anything designed to move the film/sensor, as at some point it will inevitably end up doing so during an exposure.

Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 11:54 PM

Jul 03, 2008 at 11:51 PM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #8 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

It seems like it is not an AF issue but more ghosting; brainiac is probably on the money! Canon should come up with a firmware right now with which this feature can be completely disabled and just be working if desired. Somehow that darn thing seems to have mind on its own....

. On the positive side, in my experience the dust removal system works like a charm

Jeff, personally if have seen this on a sinlge occasion on my camera and that when I used a high speed burst before the most recent firmware. Your image doesn't seem to be a part of a fast squence of action shots but to be more a single shot mode image, right? Just confirming here....

Edited on Jul 04, 2008 at 12:43 AM

Jul 04, 2008 at 12:42 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #9 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

jeff I hear a D700 calling your name.

Jul 04, 2008 at 12:50 AM

gfiksel
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p.1 #10 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

brainiac wrote:
It really looks like either the sensor cleaning is running during the exposure, or the lens IS is freaking out during the exposure. More likely the sensor cleaning, as I'm not sure the IS is fast enough to create that much shake. The nature of the blur is odd: kind of sharp edged, like birefringence. A finite edge to blurring would be indicated by active sensor cleaning.

Bad luck Jeff. Very frustrating. I remember having endless problems with a Contax RTS3. I am sure it was the timing of the suction film plate. I am suspicious of anything designed to move the film/sensor, as at some point it will inevitably end up doing so during an exposure.

But the sensor itself does not move, does it? It's the IR absorption glass, which is in front of the AA filter, which is in front of the sensor.

Could be that the vibration of IR filter causes the blur through a varying IR transmission? I don't know. It would explain all the "hot weather" effects. But why would it vibrate? It's supposed to be off!

Edited on Jul 04, 2008 at 01:46 AM

Jul 04, 2008 at 01:45 AM

MSC
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p.1 #11 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Jeff, that can't be a typical shot from your camera is it? If so, something is seriously wrong. I'm now getting lots of decent shots of all kinds from the Mk3...the same one with all the AF problems before...you remember, the glory days.

If you are getting that all the time, you have a big, fat, lemon...and I doubt you could manually focus that beast.

These are two of dozens of uber sharp Mk3 shots from yesterday...my keeper rate was fine, and it was hot, and I was sitting on Astro-turf, which was at least 10 degress hotter than the rest of the planet.

2012 © MSC

Edited on Jul 04, 2008 at 02:27 AM

Jul 04, 2008 at 02:25 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #12 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

brainiac wrote:
It really looks like either the sensor cleaning is running during the exposure, or the lens IS is freaking out during the exposure. More likely the sensor cleaning, as I'm not sure the IS is fast enough to create that much shake.....

Well, considering the lens used, it's not an IS issue. I have to agree though that I am more and more suspicious of the sensor cleaning function and wonder if it somehow can have a random, negative affect on image quality... or the way it's physically designed can allow some sort of vibration during capture.

While not directly related to Jeff's problem here, has anyone experienced a high pitched squeeking sound when their Mark III runs the sensor cleaning routine? One of my two cameras does it. And with that camera I can *sometimes* clearly hear that the routine is still running even if a button has been pressed on the camera that should turn it off. If I ever have the patience to do it, maybe I could try to make a capture while the routine is running...

Ron

Edited on Jul 04, 2008 at 03:27 AM

Jul 04, 2008 at 03:26 AM

simonella_viru
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p.1 #13 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

wow, Jeff. and this is with your second (replaced) 1d III, correct? have you modified your shooting style to adjust for the unpredictable AF?

good luck and i hope that canon works through this with you.

Jul 04, 2008 at 03:29 AM

Jeff
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p.1 #14 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

I agree (as we've all speculated before endlessly), it appears something is moving, it's just hard to tell what it is. Dust shaker? Focus changing during exposure? Lens mount? I don't care to speculate anymore on the potential causes, I just want it to work consistently.

All images were one-shot.

D-what?

Shane, it's not a typical shot, and I've got plenty of soccer shots focused similar to yours. But I've also got a few like this. The temperature can't have been above 65 degrees F, and if I had to guess at a confounding factor, it would have to be the angle of the light relative to the sensor. Also, if I had to guess, the images in question almost always appear to have an element of front-focusing to them, though it's often difficult to tell with nothing in focus.

No squeaking here.

And no, I haven't altered anything, this weekend's images were by far the worst since I've had from this (second, 558xxx) camera.
-------------------------------------------------------->
Anyway, here's a few more:

1) These two are focused separately, on the same point, using the same procedure (only the f/stop was different):

2012 © Jeff

Jul 04, 2008 at 05:03 AM

Jeff
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p.1 #15 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Jul 04, 2008 at 05:03 AM

deadeyedick
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p.1 #16 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

I understand your bewilderment Jeff. The camera is schitzophrenic to its last screw...sell the sucker, as I did, and don't look back until a mk 4 or 5 is announced. If you continue trying to solve the mk3 puzzle, it could leave you scarred for life.

Jul 04, 2008 at 05:58 AM

Alistair Watson
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p.1 #17 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

If your common factor is altitude then maybe there is still an issue with the sensor assembly thingy whatcha'ma call it?

I am not sure what I can say that will be of help given that you have been through last year, what alot of us went through since June.

Do you shoot at 1/8000s alot?

Jul 04, 2008 at 07:06 AM

Gary Petersen
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p.1 #18 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Do you get this with lenses other than the 24-70mm? I know the camera is capable but maybe the lens is on the fritz? If it's not the lens then send the puppy back. This is just a quick snapshot this afternoon in the 110F heat of the Arizona desert.

2012 © Gary Petersen

Jul 04, 2008 at 07:37 AM

brainiac
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p.1 #19 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

A few more ideas. See if you can get your 24-70 to do this on another camera. The subsequent cases of the blur suggest that the moving parts in the lens might not be lining up right when it is focussed or zoomed.

Another way that the filter could do this would be if it moved away from the sensor. The AA effect would then be amplified over a wider radius. Due to the nature of an AA filter, a very small movement could cause this. Try shaking the camera pointing upwards, take a picture, then shake it pointing downwards and take another. If the filter has any freedom to move forwards and backwards, gravity might show it.

Jul 04, 2008 at 07:58 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #20 · This frickin' 1D MkIII just ain't right!

Jeff,

1) Do you experience these issues also with longer lenses (beyond 70mm)?

2) Does MF give better results in these cases?

3) What AF point did you use: center or outer?

4) Do these issues become less when stopping to down to at least f/4?

I get similair results with my 1Ds3 (to a lesser extent). It may be the same thing, it may not: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/662996/0#5912728

Edited on Jul 04, 2008 at 10:41 AM

Jul 04, 2008 at 10:40 AM

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