BIF with 100-400L

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Archive 2008 · BIF with 100-400L

Edward Rotberg
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p.3 #1 · BIF with 100-400L

The pelican images the original posted posted were shot at 1/400, f/8.0 and ISO 100.

Always remember to lock focus and follow BEFORE you fire off a frame. Don't expect AI-Servo to lock into focus instantly when you press the shutter. You'll be disappointed more often than not.

Next, for the Pelican shots it would have been better to shoot at ISO 200 or 400 to get the shutter speed up. If you get it up to 1/800 or 1/1000, IS should not matter much. Also, if you are shooting at f/8.0 to get more DOF, that's one thing, but if you are using f/8.0 to improve the sharpness of the lens, it's a mixed blessing at best. IMHO, you are probably better off opening up the lens to at least f/6.3. Now at ISO 400 and f/6.3, you would have been able to shoot at about 1/2500th of a second. I promise you, at that shutter speed, you will have MUCH better results.

To PetKal who suggested using TV mode, this goes against what most birders use. Most of us use AV mode or Manual (I tend to use Manual). In AV mode, you will get the fastest shutter speed possible if you open up the lens to where you feel comfortable with its native sharpness and have sufficient DOF. You will also be able to control the DOF by controlling the aperture.

If your light is not changing, I STRONGLY suggest you shoot Manual mode. Here you will have full control over shutter speed and DOF via aperture. Chimping a few frames will get you quickly dialed in. Unless there are clouds moving over head, the light will remain constant (near sunrise and sunset you'll have to check every 15 minutes or so). If the light isn't changing, your exposure shouldn't either.

Hope this helps.

= Ed =

Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 10:09 PM

Jul 03, 2008 at 10:08 PM

Edward Rotberg
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p.3 #2 · BIF with 100-400L

I did a workshop with Jim down in Florida. Little old ladies aside, it was well worth the time and the money. There are places where Jim's hand-holding techniques for long lenses work great, epecially if you have a suitable place to set your camera/lens down while not actually using it. In other places (i.e. muddy grounds, wading in water, sandy beach) not so much. However, his workshops are much more than just about this one technique. I would not recommend dissing something that you have no direct experience with.

= Ed =

Colin Key wrote:
PetKal wrote:

Good luck with that. Jim Neiger went into a considerable detail describing his technique of "focus bumping". I tried to understand it but couldn't. That's probably because I am just an old photo hack. I also tried to learn from a seemingly related instruction by A.Morris on BIF prefocusing method and turning the focus search off and some such. Again, to no avail.

I suppose one just needs to do it a lot, then perhaps improvements would come naturally.

This was the guy who recently posted that in one of his "workshops" (allied, I believe, to Art Morris) he had taught a very slightly-built little old lady in her mid-seventies how to hand-hold a 1D series body + 500 f/4 lens. Apparently, after his instruction, she was able to do this for eight days in succession (the secret being that you only lift the camera and lens when you are about to take a photograph!!!). How much cash this old dear paid for this amazing advice was not revealed.

Phew!!

Colin

Jul 03, 2008 at 10:13 PM

troy12n
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p.3 #3 · BIF with 100-400L

Thanks for all the good suggestions

Jul 03, 2008 at 10:16 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #4 · BIF with 100-400L

I still miss the 400L for BIF, the AF speed is much better for tracking

I got a heck of a lot more shots like this than with my 100-400L, although for slowly flying birds the 100-400 is fine; it's when they are erratically moving it struggles.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Jul 04, 2008 at 12:05 AM

PetKal
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p.3 #5 · BIF with 100-400L

Edward Rotberg wrote:
To PetKal who suggested using TV mode, this goes against what most birders use. Most of us use AV mode or Manual (I tend to use Manual).
= Ed =

That may well be, Edward, I don't know what other folks use. I like the Tv mode for birds in flight only, especially so when tracking a brird against a typical sequence of changing background such as sky---->green foliage----->water

I have seldom had a ruined shot because the aperture dropped to f/2.8 or increased to f/16 in Tv mode.
I have had lottsa ruined shots because the shutter speed dropped to f/400 or some such low value in Av mode, which is really a double trouble....from the camera shake standpoint as well as stopping the bird movement and flap.

Jul 04, 2008 at 12:06 AM

Liquidstone
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p.3 #6 · BIF with 100-400L

PetKal wrote:
Edward Rotberg wrote:
To PetKal who suggested using TV mode, this goes against what most birders use. Most of us use AV mode or Manual (I tend to use Manual).
= Ed =

That may well be, Edward, I don't know what other folks use. I like the Tv mode for birds in flight only, especially so when tracking a brird against a typical sequence of changing background such as sky---->green foliage----->water

I have seldom had a ruined shot because the aperture dropped to f/2.8 or increased to f/16 in Tv mode.
I have had lottsa ruined shots because the shutter speed dropped to f/400 or some such low value in Av mode, which is really a double trouble....from the camera shake standpoint as well as stopping the bird movement and flap.

Go manual exposure at BIFs, Pete..... the exposure meter won't be fooled regardless of changing BG. It does take some practice to get used to it, but once mastered, I find it faster and easier than Av or Tv priority.

Here's a sample burst with a changing BG (IS off BTW

)

Romy

EDIT - here's my 11 year old son learning to shoot BIFs with a 1dm2 + 500 + 1.4x, manual exposure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYKIV5WJBYE

Edited on Jul 04, 2008 at 01:38 AM

Jul 04, 2008 at 01:34 AM

PetKal
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p.3 #7 · BIF with 100-400L

Romy, that was truly an enjoyable video. I think young man Pogito should be teaming up with Jim Neiger as a business partner.

I agree with you on the use of manual exposure for BIF photography in order to eliminate the effect of changing background.

Jul 04, 2008 at 02:12 AM

troy12n
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p.3 #8 · BIF with 100-400L

Edward Rotberg wrote:

EDIT - here's my 11 year old son learning to shoot BIFs with a 1dm2 + 500 + 1.4x, manual exposure:

what kind of tripod setup was that? specifically the head, thats pretty wild

Jul 04, 2008 at 06:49 AM

Liquidstone
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p.3 #9 · BIF with 100-400L

PetKal wrote:
Romy, that was truly an enjoyable video. I think young man Pogito should be teaming up with Jim Neiger as a business partner.

I agree with you on the use of manual exposure for BIF photography in order to eliminate the effect of changing background.

Thanks, Pete.

troy12n wrote:

what kind of tripod setup was that? specifically the head, thats pretty wild

The head is a Manfrotto 3421 (also known as 393) gimbal head, of which I use a couple. The tripod is a heavy Manfrotto 475B, stable enough to support the Sigmonster + TCs. Here's my user review of the 3421:

http://birdphotoph.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=review&action=display&thread=351

Jul 04, 2008 at 07:51 AM

matonanjin
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p.3 #10 · BIF with 100-400L

PetKal wrote:
matonanjin wrote:

There was a long thread here recently about "bumping the focus" which I need to find again.

Good luck with that. Jim Neiger went into a considerable detail describing his technique of "focus bumping". I tried to understand it but couldn't. That's probably because I am just an old photo hack. I also tried to learn from a seemingly related instruction by A.Morris on BIF prefocusing method and turning the focus search off and some such. Again, to no avail.

I suppose one just needs to do it a lot, then perhaps improvements would come naturally.

Well, that makes two of us old photo hacks that couldn't understand it. I wish someone would define exactly what "focus bumping" means.

I don't shoot BIF but I suspect the concept could help my photograping cutting horses.

Ron

Jul 04, 2008 at 12:55 PM

JimN
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p.3 #11 · BIF with 100-400L

Here is the url to the Bumping the focus for BIF thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/660014/0#5880919

The 100-400mm lens is an excellant lens for bird photography and for BIF. A sharp copy of this lens will perform as well as the 400mm with the added flexability of zoom and IS. I started shootig BIF with a 10D and this lens and I still own both. It's not the lens of choice for BIF, but it is the lens of choice for BIF in it's price range. The added reach of the 40D with the 1.6 crop combined with the 100-400mm zoom makes a great all around bird photography setup for the money.

Because this camera/lens aren't the fastest, skills like initial aquisition, pre-focus, and bumping the focus all become more critical. If you use the center AF point only, shoot in manual exposure mode, and practice alot, the BIF images will come.

Ed,

Thanks for the kind words. The camera stand (hood) handles mud and a little moisture quite well. Wading in water more than a couple of inches becomes a bit of a problem, but there are ways of dealing with that as well.

Jul 07, 2008 at 10:33 PM

JimN
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p.3 #12 · BIF with 100-400L

I suppose one just needs to do it a lot, then perhaps improvements would come naturally.

If you let me know what exacly you don't understand, I will try to help.

Artie's prefocusing method is for the same purpose as my bumping the focus #1 to pre-focus (see the bumping the focus for bif thread). He does the same thing using the manual focus ring. His method works great on a tripod, but is too clumsy when hand holding. Focus search off was an attempt to avoid focusing on the bg when shooting bif against a varied bg. It may help in some cases, but I use focus search on and bump focus for bif on varied bgs. See bumping focus for bif #3.

Jul 07, 2008 at 10:53 PM

mccaf
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p.3 #13 · BIF with 100-400L

Question, is it better to move the focus button off the shutter via Custom function _ XX? I did this recently and I seem to get a couple more in focus via al servo and one shot. I use the 100-400 also. Agree with above, but saving for a 400 2.8. 100-400 is sluggish in low light...

Aug 31, 2008 at 05:09 AM

jerrykur
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p.3 #14 · BIF with 100-400L

I noticed most of the BIF shots posted here the bird is going past. Does anyone have any advice for BIF shots where the bird is coming at you? This is where my 100-400 struggles.

jerry

Aug 31, 2008 at 01:37 PM

martines34
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p.3 #15 · BIF with 100-400L

When shooting BIF with the 100 - 400 mm you might want to try leaving the Stabilizer Mode on # 1. Another thing you are going to have to learn is playing around with which Focus Point to use 1.8 or 6.5.

It is a good lens and does take a while to learn how to use.

Aug 31, 2008 at 01:46 PM

danmitchell
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p.3 #16 · BIF with 100-400L

A few things.

Big lenses are, uh, big. And the 100-400 is, indeed, larger and heavier than smaller lenses.

Have you tried using a tripod? When I photograph birds in flight I frequently put the lens/camera on a tripod with the drag loose enough that I can still freely pivot/rotate the lens. This not only reduces the physical toll from holding the heavy gear but it also steadies the camera and, for me, makes panning with moving birds a smoother operation.

Also, don't expect 100% success rates with your shots of BIF. It isn't that easy. I might shoot 200 frames to get one that I think is quite good and a few others that are decent. I delete a lot of files at the end of the day.

AI-Servo can be a good option. It may also be worthwhile to try using only the center AF point. Unless the bird fills the frame the camera/lens can easily AF on something other than the bird when the whole subject field is in motion.

Pre-focusing can work well in some situations. I sometimes shoot Pacific coast seabirds from bluffs and rocky outcroppings, and the birds often follow very similar paths across these areas. If I prefocus and shoot in burst mode as they come by - and time my shots carefully - they frequently fly right through the pre focused distance.

Dan

This image is copyrighted by the owner

"Three Pelicans in Flight. Point Lobos State Reserve, California. August 25, 2008. Copyright G Dan Mitchell - all rights reserved."

(Photographed with Canon 5D and EF 100-400mm lens at 400mm. And, no, the birds were not photoshopped into this configuration - they actually were very cooperative about posing for me!)

troy12n wrote:
Just got my 100-400L on Friday and spent the weekend getting to get a feel for it. First impressions was how much bigger and heavier it is than my next largest lens 70-200/4L. Also the push-pull zoom is taking some getting used to. For the most part, I really like this lens, the only thing I dont seems to be the focusing speed. But from what I have read, it seems to be the M.O. for this lens. I shoot with a 40D usually in AI-Focus mode, but when trying to shoot BIF's, I switch over to AI-Servo. It seems here at times the lens really hunts, especially when a bird would fly over a light background like a cloud. Is this a limitation of the lens, or the camera body? It seems to get confused at times. Anyone have some advice on this? I was considering the EF 400/5.6 prime and this lens, and for its versatility I am glad I picked the 100-400. But after a few days of handholding this thing all day, I am SORE!!!! The end of today, I pulled out my 400D which is now my backup body, and put the 70-200/4 on it and it was like I was holding a P&S it was so light (relatively speaking) and nimble feeling.

Edited on Aug 31, 2008 at 05:53 PM

Aug 31, 2008 at 05:22 PM

PetKal
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p.3 #17 · BIF with 100-400L

jerrykur wrote:
I noticed most of the BIF shots posted here the bird is going past. Does anyone have any advice for BIF shots where the bird is coming at you? This is where my 100-400 struggles.

jerry

Jerry, that's where EOS cameras' AF systems struggle.

The sluggishness of the zoom probably just aggravates the situation.

Naturally, much depends on the bird size (frontal cross section really), colour/contrast and speed of approach.

Edited on Aug 31, 2008 at 06:21 PM

Aug 31, 2008 at 06:21 PM

danmitchell
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p.3 #18 · BIF with 100-400L

Mine were approaching my position obliquely - not really "going past" exactly, though they did go almost directly overhead. I think you can see this in the photo from the positions of the pelicans.

Edited by danmitchell on Aug 31, 2008 at 07:30 PM GMT

Edited on Sep 01, 2008 at 03:30 AM

Aug 31, 2008 at 07:40 PM

skid00skid00
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p.3 #19 · BIF with 100-400L

PetKal wrote:
Jerry, that's where EOS cameras' AF systems struggle.

It's a pet peeve of mine...saying that BIF's traveling perpendicular require fast AF. Here's a very fast flying Swallow, with a high slew rate (he's not flying across the scene, but at me.) 1Ds and 400 5.6 + 1.4x TC II. This is a 100% crop, BTW.

Edited on Sep 01, 2008 at 02:18 AM

Sep 01, 2008 at 02:17 AM

jerrykur
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p.3 #20 · BIF with 100-400L

PetKal wrote:
jerrykur wrote:
I noticed most of the BIF shots posted here the bird is going past. Does anyone have any advice for BIF shots where the bird is coming at you? This is where my 100-400 struggles.

jerry

Jerry, that's where EOS cameras' AF systems struggle.

Here is one with a big bird coming at 350 knots. For some reason I can't seem to get a clear picture of small bird coming at 30.

Edited on Sep 01, 2008 at 06:05 PM

Sep 01, 2008 at 06:03 PM

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