18s for us little people?

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Archive 2008 · 18s for us little people?

davidearls
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p.1 #1 · 18s for us little people?

Boy, you've got to love the discussions on this forum. The amount of information that passes through here very day is just amazing.

There's been a lot of talk lately about 28s, and there are champions of the Zuiko 28 f3.5 over the Distagon 28 f2.8 (I'm one). I'm curious about 18s, a focal length not often discussed.

I 'll confess to a pre-disposition here. I picked up a Distagon 18 f4 about a year ago for what is now a very good price, and I love using this lens. I love the contrast and the color, and what it does with skies takes my breath away.

So here's the question: what piece of kit are you the champion of at 18mm? Contenders would have to include the Oly 18, the Canon zooms (16-35 MkII is supposed to be pretty good). There's a Nikon 14-24 that gets raved about, but for a Canon body it requires an almost impossible-to-get adapter (hubsand is working on this). Anybody have an opinion on the Canon EF-S 10-22 at an 18-equivalent length? Is there something else out there?

June skies are coming, I'm happy to post some images from my Distagon when the sky here stops being white. I'd like the comparisons to occur at optimal aperture, rather than seeing everything at one aperture. I don't know about you, but I tend to ignore sub-optimal aperture in the field.

I'll start it out with a shot I got in SC earlier this year. Not as dramatic a sky as I would have hoped for, and not everything the lens is capable of - but it's a start.

2012 © davidearls

May 23, 2008 at 11:38 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · 18s for us little people?

The SMC Pentax 18mm f/3.5 is the best of the 18's (and 17's, 19's and 20's). BTW, I'm not so little.

May 23, 2008 at 11:44 PM

pdmphoto
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p.1 #3 · 18s for us little people?

For a fixed focal length 18mm lens for landscape the Zuiko 18/3.5 would be (and was) my first choice. It's small, light, sharp to the corners, with great color, and medium contrast. I carried mine around in my kit at all times and was hardly noticed when not used. The Zeiss 18mm is a little sharper in the center, but softer in the corners. It's also larger, heavier, will hit the mirror on many 5D's without a mirror mod, and can be tough to match with an adapter for optimal performance. I'm also not a fan of Zeiss' heavy shadow contrast.

I have the Nikon 12-24G lens, which does not *require* one of Mark's G adapter. The adapter does make aperture adjustments easier, but its implementation is hardly optimal. The Nikon 12-24G is a great lens optically, but the size and weight are definate cons. The biggest advantage of the Nikon 12-24G is the f/2.8 aperture across the range, and the great performance from wide open.

May 23, 2008 at 11:59 PM

pdmphoto
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p.1 #4 · 18s for us little people?

That's a very bold statement. I've never seen the lens used on a FF digital. Care to share a sample to back up your claim?

jcolwell wrote:
The SMC Pentax 18mm f/3.5 is the best of the 18's (and 17's, 19's and 20's). BTW, I'm not so little.

Edited on May 24, 2008 at 12:01 AM

May 24, 2008 at 12:00 AM

davidearls
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p.1 #5 · 18s for us little people?

pdmphoto wrote:
That's a very bold statement. I've never seen the lens used on a FF digital. Care to share a sample to back up your claim?

jcolwell wrote:
The SMC Pentax 18mm f/3.5 is the best of the 18's (and 17's, 19's and 20's). BTW, I'm not so little.

He's got me waiting for a sample, too

May 24, 2008 at 12:04 AM

hubsand
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p.1 #6 · 18s for us little people?

+1 on the SMC18mm: a rarely seen and barely tested creature . . .

May 24, 2008 at 12:19 AM

JimBuchanan
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p.1 #7 · 18s for us little people?

Edited by JimBuchanan on May 23, 2008 at 07:28 PM GMT

Edited on May 24, 2008 at 03:28 AM

May 24, 2008 at 01:09 AM

justruss
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p.1 #8 · 18s for us little people?

I think we all want to see SMC 18mm samples. That is indeed a big claim.

May 24, 2008 at 01:15 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #9 · 18s for us little people?

While we are asking for samples, I'd love to see definitive evidence of the Zuiko 18/3.5 corner performance. I've never seen a single image that confirms that. I've seen plenty of amazing stuff with the lens from the likes of Hrannar and Simon Kennedy, but never a corner crop.

My choice at this focal length is the Tamron SP 17/3.5, and I'll be happy to post as many corner crops as you can handle.

Edited on May 24, 2008 at 01:20 AM

May 24, 2008 at 01:19 AM

pdmphoto
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p.1 #10 · 18s for us little people?

I've posted my Zuiko 18/3.5 pics a few times. Others have as well. In fact, mine and some others were reposted just a few months ago. I thought I rememer you saying you saw a hair of CA in the extreme corner?

I still have a Tamrom 17/3.5, with the orignal Tamron Adaptal EOS mount. It's the third and best copy I've sampled. While it is a very good and usable super wide, it doesn't compare to a good Oly 18/3.5 - for color, contrast, or edge/corner sharpness. I saw one sample you posted at f11, and it wasn't too demanding as far as resolution or high contrast in the corners. That's what really sets a good and superb SWA apart, in my book. By the way - I just took pics of my Tamron 17/3.5 last night (along with some other alt lenses), they will be posted soon on the B&S forum. So I have every reason to talk that lens up right now

cogitech wrote:
While we are asking for samples, I'd love to see definitive evidence of the Zuiko 18/3.5 corner performance. I've never seen a single image that confirms that. I've seen plenty of amazing stuff with the lens from the likes of Hrannar and Simon Kennedy, but never a corner crop.

My choice at this focal length is the Tamron SP 17/3.5, and I'll be happy to post as many corner crops as you can handle.

May 24, 2008 at 01:31 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #11 · 18s for us little people?

Yes, I do remember that sample you posted, now. Although, I remember questioning whether it was an extreme corner crop or not.

Anyway, I find the Tamron 17/3.5 all that I need. For $150, how can you go wrong? Here's some more crops. Again, it isn't CZ21-like anywhere in the frame, but it is quite consistent and holds out fairly good into the corners and shows very little CA. Although, it does have some non-linear (wave-form) distortion, which is visible here (so it is CZ21-like, in a way):

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Top left:

Top right:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Bottom left:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Bottom right:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Bottom edge centre:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Centre:

A tiny bit of smudge in the very extreme corners, but crop it back to 18mm and it's gone.

Edited on May 24, 2008 at 01:59 AM

May 24, 2008 at 01:51 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #12 · 18s for us little people?

I also love what the Tamron BBAR coatings do to sky, and I certainly never need to ask for more contrast or colour from this lens:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Some crops of this one, as well:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

So, while it may not be as sexy as some other more exotic lenses, it is capable of massive prints with stunning detail and colour.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

(no filters used in any shots)

Edited on May 24, 2008 at 02:18 AM

May 24, 2008 at 02:05 AM

pascal03
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p.1 #13 · 18s for us little people?

I'll definitely second the Tamron 17mm f3.5 and for the $$$'s this lens is hard to beat.

I found mine brand new in the box and ended up getting the Contax 17-35mm f2.8 N at the same time. So the Tamron never saw much use. But I would definitely take it over the Olympus which seems to be way overpriced.

May 24, 2008 at 04:43 AM

pdmphoto
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p.1 #14 · 18s for us little people?

Overpriced is a relative term. The same could be said for the Contax 17-35mm. Photographers who want the best results are willing to pay to get them. The Tamron is good stopped down considerably, but the Zuiko is much better from wide open.

I'm hearing lots of speculation here, but has anyone else actually owned both at the same time? Like I said, I've owned three of the Tamron 17's (and tested two against the Zuiko) - so it's not a copy issue. In fact, I think my Tamron 17 is sharper than yours

, but the Tamron can't capture the same amount of detail at any aperture.

Here are my crops from the Zuiko 18/3.5 (which I no longer own, so there is no reason for me to talk it up)

Center:

and here is the extreme upper left corner. The UL in this crop is the very corner of the frame:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Edited on May 24, 2008 at 07:02 AM

May 24, 2008 at 05:32 AM

Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #15 · 18s for us little people?

Paul, you mention the Nikon 12–24 G, and you say that it is sharp wide open at ƒ2.8. Which lens are you referring to, exactly?

Googling, I got this hit, on DPReview:

Pre-PMA 2003, 15:00 TOKYO: Nikon has today confirmed the details of their first digital only lens, the Nikkor AF-S DX 12 - 24 mm F4.0

Are you referring to this lens, or the 14–24/2.8 that I have—which definitely is sharp wide open? Did I miss something?

I tested the 12–24/4 Nikkor against the Tokina 12–24 in DX-sensor-only days, and the latter blew it away, frankly. Probably a copy variation problem (poor Nikkor; great Tokina), but I was surprised at the difference. Cheers, KL

Edited on May 24, 2008 at 09:31 AM

May 24, 2008 at 09:30 AM

gogopix
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p.1 #16 · 18s for us little people?

cogitech wrote:
Yes, I do remember that sample you posted, now. Although, I remember questioning whether it was an extreme corner crop or not.

Anyway, I find the Tamron 17/3.5 all that I need. For $150, how can you go wrong? Here's some more crops. Again, it isn't CZ21-like anywhere in the frame, but it is quite consistent and holds out fairly good into the corners and shows very little CA. Although, it does have some non-linear (wave-form) distortion, which is visible here (so it is CZ21-like, in a way):

Top left:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

A tiny bit of smudge in the very extreme corners, but crop it back to 18mm and it's gone.

I am really mystified!

WHAT is thje upper left building. These morning eyes see a totally different perspective in that brown building. Was it falling down?

Maybe time for an eye checkup for me-looks like it is falling down!

Victor

May 24, 2008 at 02:49 PM

davidearls
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p.1 #17 · 18s for us little people?

gogopix wrote:
cogitech wrote:
Yes, I do remember that sample you posted, now. Although, I remember questioning whether it was an extreme corner crop or not.

Anyway, I find the Tamron 17/3.5 all that I need. For $150, how can you go wrong? Here's some more crops. Again, it isn't CZ21-like anywhere in the frame, but it is quite consistent and holds out fairly good into the corners and shows very little CA. Although, it does have some non-linear (wave-form) distortion, which is visible here (so it is CZ21-like, in a way):

Top left:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

A tiny bit of smudge in the very extreme corners, but crop it back to 18mm and it's gone.

I am really mystified!

Victor

Not to worry. Your eyes are fine.

No doubt the building is still standing. Even shooting portrait there's distortion as you move to the edge on an 18. Not typically used for architectural work for this reason.

The distortion is one of the reasons that 18s take such spectacular pictures of skies -

May 24, 2008 at 03:04 PM

cogitech
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p.1 #18 · 18s for us little people?

Typical waveform distortion. The only flaw of this lens, IMO. The CZ21 does this too, but people still find a use for the lens.

Can you see it in the landscape shots?

May 24, 2008 at 03:43 PM

Simon Kennedy
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p.1 #19 · 18s for us little people?

Personally I am not sure about that Tamron lens based on these examples. I don't normally get involved in testing and so on, but here is a few crops from a shot from my Zuiko 18mm. It looks to me like it is substantially sharper than the tamron, with much lower distortion. But then it costs much more so I suppose you would expect that. Perhaps I am missing something here...

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Top left (I know there is nothing in the extreme corner - sorry I am not a lens tester.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Bottom right

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Centre

These are completely unsharpened in any way, they look much crisper with a little USM. On the 5d at f11.

Another nice thing about this lens is the lowish contrast, meaning you can capture a little extra DR and put the contrast where you like.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

May 25, 2008 at 02:56 PM

biotar
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p.1 #20 · 18s for us little people?

Great picture! But i would really reccomend you to clean your sensor every now and then

!

I agree with you on the contrast (based on your pictures).

May 25, 2008 at 03:15 PM

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