Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Moderated by: guardian

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules
Nikon SLRs, primes, and zooms lenses reviews

FM Forums | Nikon-mount SLRs | Join Image Upload
1

end

jmcfadden
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #1 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

I keep saying it , scene contrast Demands choices and that can mean compramise

here is great Florida light

White Ibis

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Great light makes great photos easy , hard light makes great photos hard.

Of course these last one are in open shade , the best place for White Ibis imagery

Edited on May 05, 2008 at 03:57 AM

May 05, 2008 at 03:55 AM

snegron
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #2 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Very good images John, especially image # 1. The other images show very good backgrounds, but the feather details also seem to be a bit blown out. Maybe these White Ibris birds have a special defense mechanism that renders our sensors useless when we try to capture their plumage design!

I am now on a mission to capture the feather details of the White Ibris!

May 05, 2008 at 04:29 AM

jmcfadden
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #3 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

snegron wrote:
Very good images John, especially image # 1. The other images show very good backgrounds, but the feather details also seem to be a bit blown out. Maybe these White Ibris birds have a special defense mechanism that renders our sensors useless when we try to capture their plumage design!

I am now on a mission to capture the feather details of the White Ibris!

hehe , nah nothing is blown really just funky conversions for the web , but yes it takes good , diffused light , like a somewhat cloudy day , or early or late sidelight. Good luck and happy shooting

J

Edited on May 05, 2008 at 01:35 PM

May 05, 2008 at 01:35 PM

SoundHound
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.2 #4 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

First forget about critical exposure using (even set to spot) an in-camera meter. Look at your LCD and histogram. Shoot RAW (where you have about 1.5 stops of overexposure correction) and use the tools in ACR to correct. Then go into PS and select the bird separate from the background and then correct both for lighting/contrast. This is the cross you bear for shooting in high-contrast lighting.

May 05, 2008 at 05:23 PM

Artisador
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #5 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Yeah, good light, definitely good light helps... definitely...

Edited by Artisador on May 09, 2008 at 10:20 PM GMT

Edited on May 10, 2008 at 03:20 AM

May 05, 2008 at 06:25 PM

rhyder
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #6 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

In a tough lighting situation...why not bracket?

Why not shoot at 100 ISO?

jammy...Nikon Capture 4 will also read these shots (D200)

May 05, 2008 at 10:27 PM

Cal5050
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #7 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Simple shoot raw 1 stop under exposed you won't go wrong!

May 06, 2008 at 02:30 AM

snegron
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #8 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Ok, I know I should just let this subject rest in peace, but I found this image I shot with my D1X of a similar bird under similar lighting (lens was a Nikkor 28-105 AF-D, ISO 200, 1/320, f/6.3, RAW). I tweaked it a bit in PS, but no blown highlight problems with this one!

I wonder if my D1X simply handles highlights and contrast much better than my D200?

2008 © snegron

Edited on May 19, 2008 at 03:19 AM

May 19, 2008 at 03:15 AM

wjlapier
Online
Image Upload: On

p.2 #9 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Use your F100 and enjoy photography the way it was meant to be.

I hate digital for the reasons brought up with your problem. I use my D300 for sports and stuff like that, but use my F5 for serious pics with contrast issues! Film and Coolscan V rules! I bet even slides could render a better image than our DSLR's ( I own a D300 and shoot the hell out of it! ).

May 19, 2008 at 03:39 AM

Andre Labonte
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #10 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Wow, talk about making things complicated ... get yourself a copy of "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson.

For a shot like this, it is simple, you spot meter off something green with the same incident light as the white object and set your exposure for -2/3 stops. All should be good.

Also, on a D300 for harsh lighting like this, having the D-lighting in camera set to highest helps as well ... but nothing changes with how you expose.

Edited on May 19, 2008 at 03:55 AM

May 19, 2008 at 03:52 AM

cadman342001
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #11 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Can somebody explain to me the difference between setting exposure compensation to say -1.0 and simply upping the shutter speed ? (which is what I do if my shots look overexposed using the cameras light meter)

Is it the same thing ? I would argue that I'm getting a higher shutter speed whereas using EC you're not.

Andy

Ps - I have "Understanding exposure" by Bryan Petersen

May 20, 2008 at 06:12 AM

firewireguy
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #12 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

The Exposure Compensation Tool in NX often lets be get back almost 2 stops of highlights and does a far better job than just reducing the brightness using levels. Perhaps you should try that to get the highlights from the birds, then open it again with exposure for the background then merge and mask the two images in PS. This way you should avoid the noise issues you'd otherwise get by lightening the background. You can then use level and curves on the resulting image as a whole. Kind of a HDR only with the same file. I've done this before but instead of EC I changed the WB of the two images and it turned out pretty nice.

May 20, 2008 at 08:31 AM

louis fusco
Online
Image Upload: On

p.2 #13 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

spot meter and -1.3 ev should help. not shooting at midday would be easier.

May 20, 2008 at 10:39 AM

binary visions
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #14 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

snegron wrote:
Ok, I know I should just let this subject rest in peace, but I found this image I shot with my D1X of a similar bird under similar lighting (lens was a Nikkor 28-105 AF-D, ISO 200, 1/320, f/6.3, RAW). I tweaked it a bit in PS, but no blown highlight problems with this one!

I wouldn't really call a slate-blue/gray subject and a bright white subject as being a "similar bird" - at least, not for the purposes of blown highlights.

Honestly, shooting in the middle of a bright day at light colored subjects standing in the sun... results are just not going to be optimal and will, in any event, require special considerations for metering.

cadman342001 wrote:
Can somebody explain to me the difference between setting exposure compensation to say -1.0 and simply upping the shutter speed ? (which is what I do if my shots look overexposed using the cameras light meter)

Is it the same thing ? I would argue that I'm getting a higher shutter speed whereas using EC you're not.

It depends on the camera mode you're in. If you're in shutter priority mode, changing exposure compensation will result in a modification to your aperture (since shutter speed was manually set). The opposite is true of aperture priority mode. In manual mode, the only time exposure compensation will have an effect is if you have auto-ISO turned on.

Exposure compensation will absolutely modify your shutter speed - as long as you aren't telling the camera not to do so. So, the upshot is that there IS no difference between setting your EV to -1.0 or doubling your shutter speed (assuming all other settings remain constant). EV is used in auto or semi-auto modes, changing the shutter speed directly is used in manual mode.

Edited on May 20, 2008 at 01:38 PM

May 20, 2008 at 01:37 PM

44lefty
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #15 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

snegron wrote:
Jammy Straub wrote:
snegron wrote:
Same problem with this shot. Trees are well exposed, shadows and highlights look even, but the birds are blown out!

It's very simple you just have to expose for the white birds and let the rest of the scene fall where it will (generally it will be slightly underexposed).

The comments about spot metering the birds and then opening up a bit from there are right on. You can also check your histogram and blinking highlights warning on the screen.

That kind of shooting takes a lot of practice.

Thanks! I am not sure how many stops difference there is between the white birds and the background, but I wonder if the background would be several stops underexposed (almost black) in order to get a correct exposure of the birds? If so, then I would probably be dealing with severe noise issues in the underexposed areas.

I agree with the fact that this type of shooting takes lots of practice! I wonder how the guys at National Geographic do it? All their bird images are tack sharp, perfectly exposed, and not a sign of any blown highlights!

Your best solution is to spot meter the highlights, and learn to use the Zone System. As far as the exposure range between the highlights and the darkest shadows in which you want to record detail, it can be as much as 6 full stops.

The Gossen Luna-Pro meter can actually meter a brightness range of 1,000,000:1!!

The range of most color films was 4 or 5:1, and digital sensors seem to be very similar.

Larry

Edited on May 20, 2008 at 03:11 PM

May 20, 2008 at 03:10 PM

Rampai65
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #16 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

jmcfadden wrote:Personally I would spot meter the brightest part of the birds back and open up 2.3 stops but that's just me, then i would know I was setting the exposure of the BRIGHTEST part of the bird to be 2.3 stops OVER neutral gray

J

I do exactly that. I dont shoot Birds but mostly flowers and bugs. I select the Aperture for the DOF I need and adjust the Shutter Speed on Manual Mode until it shows about +2EV over exposure in the viewfinder balance 2.....1.....0....-1.....-2 thingy. Results are always consistent, no possibility of any error.

Some examples :

This image is copyrighted by the owner

The next one though not exactly white, was a lighter tone, so was over exposed from meter reading by about 1EV.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

May 20, 2008 at 04:17 PM

44lefty
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #17 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Rampai65 -

You are using a modification of the Zone System, in that you are adjusting your exposure to acount for the fact that light meters are cailibrated against an 18% grey card. In BW, the 18% is scaled at Zone 5 (of ten) and each step in the step wedge is one stop. In color photography, the grey card is Zone 3 i a five step wedge, with each step being 1/2 stop.

Larry

May 20, 2008 at 06:28 PM

davewolfs
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.2 #18 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Why don't you try using UniBAL if you are shooting RAW, that way your histogram will give you accurate results.

May 20, 2008 at 08:34 PM

cadman342001
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #19 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

binary visions wrote:

cadman342001 wrote:
Can somebody explain to me the difference between setting exposure compensation to say -1.0 and simply upping the shutter speed ? (which is what I do if my shots look overexposed using the cameras light meter)

Is it the same thing ? I would argue that I'm getting a higher shutter speed whereas using EC you're not.

It depends on the camera mode you're in. If you're in shutter priority mode, changing exposure compensation will result in a modification to your aperture (since shutter speed was manually set). The opposite is true of aperture priority mode. In manual mode, the only time exposure compensation will have an effect is if you have auto-ISO turned on.

Exposure compensation will absolutely modify your shutter speed - as long as you aren't telling the camera not to do so. So, the upshot is that there IS no difference between setting your EV to -1.0 or doubling your shutter speed (assuming all other settings remain constant). EV is used in auto or semi-auto modes, changing the shutter speed directly is used in manual mode.

Thanks. I only shoot Manual so that explains it !

Andy

Edited on May 21, 2008 at 12:13 AM

May 21, 2008 at 12:12 AM

Conner999
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #20 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

Another simple and expedient option is a $300 ambient light meter. Old school style before we all got spoiled by matrix metering and histograms. It will be the best $300 (say a Sekonic 358, etc) you'll spend on gear.

As long as the subject is in the same or very close light as you, simply take a quick reading, dial it in to the camera and bang - no more blown highlights or detail-less shadows. VERY useful in winter when there is a tendency to have bright detail-less snow, etc.

Same would apply to very contrasty scenes as we've seen above where white feather (or fur) detail gets blown out). If the subjects or you are in different light - you have a good base line for the ambient light at the time and just need to dial in some EV comp.

The other option, especially if you and subject are in different light (if your camera permits it) or if you daon't have/want an incident meter is a technique that I use quite a bit with my 1Ds2 when need be: taking multiple spot readings using FEL and having the camera average out the exposure for the scene.

I can take 5-6 spots in a couple of seconds (brightest area, darkest, + a couple of mid-tones if I have time), the camera does a running average calculation and I can shoot at any time. It's not as accurate as an incident reading, but its' VERY close - close enough you can tweak in CS if need be with minor exposure adjustments.

The shoot, look at histogram, rinse, repeat approach that is easy to fall back on to me as two flaws/annoyances: 1) it chews up time and when shooting critters, etc., that extra time (and movement/noise from the shutter) may not be in your favor and 2) the histogram is based on jpeg settings and will typically indicate burned highlights when in RAW there is more room to the right (and left, aka DR) to utilize.

Edited on May 21, 2008 at 02:08 PM

May 21, 2008 at 01:58 PM

Timm
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #21 · Blown Highlights w/D200/300mm

While I normally agree with everything JMcfadden says or writes, I shoot lots of white stuff--mostly snow and flowers--with my D200. I find that spot-metering off the brightest white I want to preserve and setting the camera to + 1.7 stops preserves texture in the desired areas. +2.3 still results in some over-exposure, but can usually be corrected in a RAW editor--if you like the extra work!

Here's an example, metered off the white petal +1.7:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

May 21, 2008 at 03:51 PM


FM Forums \| Nikon-mount SLRs \| Join Image Upload 1 2 end