HD: The Media is the Message

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coreypolis
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p.2 #1 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
coreypolis, Sounds great, but $24,000 for a camera and one 18-55mm lens? I'll be a lot more interested when the prices are more in dragonfly's $2,000 range. Maybe $2,000 and we can use our Nikon, Canon, other brand dslr lenses.
there will be a more consumer friendly version soon, but think of it this way, you can provide HD video and stills at the same time. 30fps at 12mp is unprecedented.

and there are already adapters for various lens mounts available.

Jan 24, 2008 at 05:23 PM

venkman
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p.2 #2 · HD: The Media is the Message

High Definition is basically any display that is capable of showing >720 lines of vertical resolution. This is what they mean when you hear a tv being described as 720p or 1080p, etc. The number is the vertical resolution. So, if you're running your computer monitor at 1024x768, its in HD. We've been working in HD for quite a while now actually. Its the ability to transfer that resolution to other mediums that has taken some time to develop (i.e. televisions). To display an HD signal, you need a display that can handle high pixel counts and a pathway to deliver that information, whether its a digital disk, or a direct digital connection.

CRT Monitors have been able to show high definition content for years, because they could accept the digital pathway from your computer that is needed to pass the information. With LCDs and Plasmas getting larger and larger, it became more feasible to translate our TV viewing to high definition. We just needed the pathway for the information, thus the advent of digital cable.

Us, as photographers are shooting digital photos well beyond HD quality. You would have to drop the resolution of your photograph below 720 on the vertical side to drop below the HD threshold. To put that into perspective, a 1 megapixel image is considered high definition. If you look at a 1 megapixel photo on a 1024x 768 digital display, it will look perfect. You wont be able to zoom in, but as is it will fill the display nicely at 100%. A handheld tablet computer could get by with files that in our eyes are "low res", but when displayed on the device will look great. That eliminates the issue of print piracy because, as we all know, a 1 MP file wont print very large at all. If it's still a hot button, a little hard drive encryption would eliminate the problem completely.

As for slideshows, the DVD medium was designed with standard definition television sets in mind. The resolution is 480 in the vertical plane. This was fine for older CRT televisions, but on the newer LCD and Plasma sets, the quality will look inadequate because the tv set has a better resolution than that of the DVD. Not the other way around. The solution is a digital disk with a higher resolution output to match today's TV's. These are Blu Ray and HD DVD. But as with all new tech, we have to wait for the players to come down in price as well as the burners. This happened when the DVD format was originally released, now you can get a DVD player for 30 bucks.

Sorry for the rambling post, but hopefully it clears some stuff up.

- Dan

Jan 24, 2008 at 05:48 PM

invalid2
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p.2 #3 · HD: The Media is the Message

venkman wrote:
You wont be able to zoom in, but as is it will fill the display nicely at 100%. A handheld tablet computer could get by with files that in our eyes are "low res", but when displayed on the device will look great. That eliminates the issue of print piracy because, as we all know, a 1 MP file wont print very large at all. If it's still a hot button, a little hard drive encryption would eliminate the problem completely.

How do you expect encrypting data on the hard drive to help? Whatever you do, it decryption happens before display (when you show pictures to people). If someone really wants to infringe your copyright, it is going to happen. This is similar to the css encryption for dvds.

Jan 24, 2008 at 07:26 PM

venkman
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p.2 #4 · HD: The Media is the Message

While, you can never completely stop piracy or infringement, you can at least make it more difficult for the average person. If you contain the delivery on the image to the display on a handheld device, encryption would at least stop most people from taking out the hard drive and reading it elsewhere. Although, i am not and don't claim to be an expert on hard drive encryption, so I could just be full of crap!

1MP files still aren't going to print very large, though, regardless of my pipe dream encryption ideas

Jan 24, 2008 at 07:38 PM

alkorn
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p.2 #5 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
My Hitachi plasma screen won't work with the DVI-HDMI from my computer. I call tech support and the Hitachi tech told me that my particular model won't accept a signal from a computer.

The Hitachi tech was correct and incorrect. While your model does not have
VGA or DVI input (there he is correct), if it does have HDMI input, all you need is proper cable "DVI to HDMI" and also very important to set your video card software properly and you'll be all set(here the tech was incorrect). You should have dual DVI video card or at least dual output with at least one DVI (but why would you want to run your main monitor in VGA?).

Here is the site I buy all my cables from:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=dvi+to+hdmi

good luck

Jan 25, 2008 at 05:02 AM

Brian Lingle
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p.2 #6 · HD: The Media is the Message

Thanks, Dan. That did clear up some things for me.

corypolis, I really meant it when I said, "That's great!" Very cool development. Can't wait till it's affordable to me - or can I? Sounds like very disruptive tech for photographers, as dragonfly said.

Jan 25, 2008 at 05:51 AM

Brian Lingle
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p.2 #7 · HD: The Media is the Message

alkorn, Wow! those are really low prices. And the quality is good? Thanks.

I called Hitachi again today and got a different story. They told me I'd have to adjust my video card, like you said, but then they told me not to do it and said that displaying images from my computer could damage the tv. I asked how and they only repeated the warning.

I plugged my girlfriend's Macbook into the tv with my DVI to HD cable this evening and it worked very well. The color balance was slightly off, a little too much yellow/brown tone, but not bad. Anyway, it sounds like I need to figure out how to adjust my video card.

venkman, I shot the smallest, lowest quality jpeg photos available on my D300 and displayed them with the camera's direct HD to HD on the tv this afternoon and they looked as good as the high res, large images. I just checked the camera though and they're still 3.1MP images, 1424 ppi on the short side. Anyway, I guess we can still use relatively low res images for the slide shows.

Jan 25, 2008 at 06:16 AM

invalid2
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p.2 #8 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
venkman, I shot the smallest, lowest quality jpeg photos available on my D300 and displayed them with the camera's direct HD to HD on the tv this afternoon and they looked as good as the high res, large images. I just checked the camera though and they're still 3.1MP images, 1424 ppi on the short side. Anyway, I guess we can still use relatively low res images for the slide shows.

I don't do HDTV - just SD, and one of the cute things I can do with the higher resolution images is to crop them to a high aspect ratio and then slide the whole thing across the screen (without upscalling it).

Jan 25, 2008 at 06:37 AM

Brian Lingle
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p.2 #9 · HD: The Media is the Message

Just displayed some photos on the TV by plugging a usb drive into it. Images looked ok but slow loading. Not as good as from the computer and no option for running a slide show. Do most HD tv's have usb ports?

Jan 25, 2008 at 06:48 AM

alkorn
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p.2 #10 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
alkorn, Wow! those are really low prices. And the quality is good? Thanks.

yes, you'll pay like 10 times more in regular store (BB or CC). They are the same cables, you just pay real price, not marked up.
You should not damage your TV, that statement was ridiculous.

Good luck

Jan 25, 2008 at 04:00 PM

Brian Lingle
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p.2 #11 · HD: The Media is the Message

invalid2, I don't know what you mean by "SD" in this context.

alkorn, The only thing I can think of is I heard that images can get burned into the screen on plasma screen if they're left on too long. I imagine that's why the tv shrinks the image to a small size and moves it around the screen when I leave it on Pause for awhile. It didn't do that with the screensaver image from my girlfriend's laptop. Not sure if I gave it enought time, though. So, maybe that screen function doesn't work with computer generated images on this tv. Guess I'll have to time it to find out.

Jan 25, 2008 at 06:52 PM

Craig Gillette
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p.2 #12 · HD: The Media is the Message

I have a Sony crt tv. It takes their memory sticks, limited to the old 128mb - which given even hd res, is a lot of images. For the life of me (actually just to the point I don't want to waste time with it) I can't get images to display consistently. The odd part is it seems random as older ones did, newer ones didn't, then some did on a second try. It's got dvi and vga inputs as well on the back of an almost 200 lb set "'tied down for earthquake resistance. Nope, I'm sticking to viewing on the computer and prints for now. And my mother will likely never move off the paper print.

But when resolution and viewing distances are right, they do look great!

My guess is the consumer ease of use/compatibility issues will fall off rapidly when broadcast goes all digital next year, the consumer products folks will look to sell inexpensive devices to interconnect phones, etc., to the tv's. More and more folks are using digital satelite and cable sources so sets are adding more input points and makingthem more conveient to reach, front and side panells as well as centtered on the rear. Once the consumer types - tvs and accessories - have cracked the compatibility hurdles, it should be easier. Right no there are still a lot of frustratng compatibility problems that the different makers/service providers can blame on the other parts of the chain.

And truly necessary or not, "full" 1080p will be a driving selling point, much as megapixel wars drive/drove digicams to and past 4-5 megs, for pretty much all tvs, not just the bigger ones

Edited on Jan 25, 2008 at 07:11 PM

Jan 25, 2008 at 07:09 PM

invalid2
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p.2 #13 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
invalid2, I don't know what you mean by "SD" in this context.

Sorry, I mean Standard Definition (not High Definition) TV.

Jan 26, 2008 at 04:04 AM

henryng
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p.2 #14 · HD: The Media is the Message

Cable(TV) or Video in HD usually cost more. However, I don't think for wedding or any type of photography service we can charge extra for HD or higher resolution images. Consumers always want everything cause they have an impression that it doesn't cause u any money to give them the full resolution JPG files.

I do agree HD TV is the way to display photos in a home, however I am pretty sure some softwares should be able to on the fly generate a slideshow with music and effect on a computer and feed to a HD TV in the near future. So, everyone can modify their albums to their own tastes. Therefore, photographers just need to provide them images as content along with their other media files like music and video.

Jan 26, 2008 at 05:13 AM

seanbolton
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p.2 #15 · HD: The Media is the Message

Currently I supply DVD slideshows in standard DVD format and I don't see many clients with HD players in their living room yet (Blu-Ray or HD). I think it is another year or so before HD players start to become the norm,

I find the DVD slideshow is extremely popular with clients. A 20-30 minute slideshow which is well editted and set to good music is very effective.

I don't see a decline in demand for printed albums yet, and the latest digital albums can look stunning with good layout design which appeals to clients.

What will be interesting to see is how the blurring of video and photography will occur in the coming years. SLRs will soon have video capture capabilities, and video cameras will acquire decent still capabilities.

Sean

Jan 26, 2008 at 06:44 PM

williamkazak
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p.2 #16 · HD: The Media is the Message

This is an interesting forum but I am also amused by it. The new tec is something that we/you/me are interested in and to different degrees of interest.
If you have online proofing and reordering of prints and your final product to the happy couple is a wedding album then you can still use film. Your wedding lens selection does not have to include a 70-200mm zoom either.
I have been to thousands of weddings and I know other photographers who have used the basic 35, 50, 85/105mm lens combinations over the years for thousands of weddings. I have even experimented with Macros as well as 20mm wides and 18mm zooms.
Are you going to make any more money from it? Are your customers going to pay for your idea of increased image quality? You can say to yourself that you need this or that new tec but your perceived increase in image quality cannot always be seen by the customer and they may not be willing to pay for it.
If you like new tec, good for you. An artist uses his/her tools to produce the results that they desire. It takes a lot of cash to see if that new lens/monitor/body will pay for itself and give you what you think you are paying for.
I am sure that many of us, myself included, have spent our money because somebody else hyped it up to us and once we owned it, we were disappointed or we felt that it was over hyped and did not fit our personal artistic style or did not make us any additional income.
Interesting thoughts to ponder. Early adapters are another forum.

Edited on Jan 26, 2008 at 08:26 PM

Jan 26, 2008 at 08:25 PM

marko1953
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p.2 #17 · HD: The Media is the Message

My daughter got married in Las Vegas this week! I am in Australia so I felt a bit ripped off but they wanted to do it before returning home from working in Europe. I watched the ceremony live on my computer from the Chapel's website. There was only them plus the celebrant plus a photographer who was annoying because he was oblivious to my video view and kept getting in the way but oh well the photos look pretty good actually.Looks like he was using a canon 70-200 f/4 lens (how close do they focus?) he was pretty close for such a long lens.There were photos up within an hour that you could order on-line as well as copies of the video. I am just amazed that such a thing is possible. I think people here in country Australia are a bit slow to take up the digital world. My dance orders from my website come in so slow after the dance festival. Some people here have no idea about the internet. I know we all have to adapt to the new world but it can take a toll on your wallet trying to get all the latest technology. It's no good lamenting about the past good old days when your film camera was "current" for 10 years. I agree with previous poster who said that we can end up thinking we need the latest equipment or we are no good. This is a reason why these forums are bad in a way. You can end up just reading and wishing you had the latets camera etc instead of getting out and taking photos with what you've got. I just bought a 40D and wonder maybe I should have got a 5D? See, I am a victim already!

Jan 26, 2008 at 11:57 PM

coreypolis
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p.2 #18 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
Just displayed some photos on the TV by plugging a usb drive into it. Images looked ok but slow loading. Not as good as from the computer and no option for running a slide show. Do most HD tv's have usb ports?
no, but thy do have HDMI, and there are DVI or VGA to HDMI adapters. Some also have memory card slots.

Jan 27, 2008 at 02:28 AM

invalid2
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p.2 #19 · HD: The Media is the Message

seanbolton wrote:
Currently I supply DVD slideshows in standard DVD format and I don't see many clients with HD players in their living room yet (Blu-Ray or HD). I think it is another year or so before HD players start to become the norm,

I find the DVD slideshow is extremely popular with clients. A 20-30 minute slideshow which is well editted and set to good music is very effective.

If you don't mind offering more detail, do you tend to have a standard type of slideshow and if so, what is it? Do you fit each picture to the screen size? Do you show multiple pictures simultaneously? Do you zoom/move the pictures? Do you use one translation or a different one for each new picture? Do you time to specific events in the music, or just the match the pace?

Jan 27, 2008 at 03:09 AM

seanbolton
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p.2 #20 · HD: The Media is the Message

Hello invalid2

I have the same approach to my slideshows and my basic rules are ;

1. resize and sharpen photos to 1200x800, a good general size for panning and zooming. ProShow resizes very nicely and keeps everything sharp for DVD.

2. No multiple photos, or general gimmicks, like funky fades.

3. Each photo is shown for about 6 seconds with a 1 second cross fade transistion. (some photos I extend the duration, key shots and big groups).

4. I use pan and zoom on ALL photos. This adds greatly to the overall effect. I used to do static slideshows, but now pan/zoom is a must. I zoom in more than I zoom out.

5. I try to keep the pace of the slideshow even, that means the zoom/pan speed is consistent throughout the slideshow so the overall show 'flows' nicely.

6. I try to sync the photo's to the music where I can, but generally it is just about choosing an appropriate backing track to each section of the wedding. Sometimes if it works I deliberately sync a transition to a moment in the music, but I don't make a big effort on this.

7. What I aiming for is a storybook feel with a good flow to the photographs with a consistent style to the fades, pans and zooms. This works the best. Avoid throwing in gimmicky effects. Too many of these and the whole slideshow starts to look inconsistent.

I want a classic, timeless feel, as far as that is possible. It is possible to go crazy with overlays, fancy transitions and fades, sound effects, etc but I find for me anyway, it is easy to go to far and end up with a gimmicky slideshow.

regards

Sean

Jan 27, 2008 at 03:53 PM

tommyleong
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p.2 #21 · HD: The Media is the Message

BarnDog wrote:

The other side of the coin of this is that the technology is at some point leveling the playing field in that the minimum requirement to enter this industry has gotten quite low. You do not need a medium format film system to be considered a "pro" photographer. If you think about the cost of starting a wedding photography business today vs. 15 years ago it is astounding how cheap it is to get going with a professional look. $800 camera, $1000 in lenses, $200 in web presence, $1000 in computer / software. So this encourages the market to be saturated, thereby driving prices down to compete while costs are increasing due to the changing technology. Hopefully, since this is a service based industry and is in the artistic realm, price will not be quantified by tangible product delivery but more by the intangible skill of the artist.

well , i do tend to agree with what you said, but then again, I was thinking " if I were a painter today, the barrier of entry is virtually non-existence.....how much does it cost for paints, brush and canvas.......but yet, these artist are selling Millions per piece....Have you been to an auction lately for chinese artist ? I mean its enough to get me painting again

Jan 27, 2008 at 04:49 PM

BarnDog
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p.2 #22 · HD: The Media is the Message

Thank goodness people still value the skill of the artist and are willing to pay for it.

Jan 27, 2008 at 06:00 PM

invalid2
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p.2 #23 · HD: The Media is the Message

seanbolton wrote:
Hello invalid2

I have the same approach to my slideshows and my basic rules are ;

1. resize and sharpen photos to 1200x800, a good general size for panning and zooming. ProShow resizes very nicely and keeps everything sharp for DVD.

2. No multiple photos, or general gimmicks, like funky fades.

3. Each photo is shown for about 6 seconds with a 1 second cross fade transistion. (some photos I extend the duration, key shots and big groups).

4. I use pan and zoom on ALL photos. This adds greatly to the overall effect. I used to do static slideshows, but now pan/zoom is a must. I zoom in more than I zoom out.

5. I try to keep the pace of the slideshow even, that means the zoom/pan speed is consistent throughout the slideshow so the overall show 'flows' nicely.

I want a classic, timeless feel, as far as that is possible. It is possible to go crazy with overlays, fancy transitions and fades, sound effects, etc but I find for me anyway, it is easy to go to far and end up with a gimmicky slideshow.

I have done a fair number that generally follow most of your description (minus the music and motion), I recently started doing a bit more - pan/zoom/cut in time with music, and sometimes using multiple pictures at once (or rapid succession). Trying to match up everything is certainly more time consuming and it is easy to go overboard, but I think the most common mistake involves trying to use every single transition offered, rather than a simple cut/dissolve/cross fade with one or two fancy transitions.

Jan 28, 2008 at 12:28 AM

seanbolton
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p.2 #24 · HD: The Media is the Message

invalid2 wrote:
[I think the most common mistake involves trying to use every single transition offered, rather than a simple cut/dissolve/cross fade with one or two fancy transitions.

I agree. Keep to a consistent approach with maybe the odd special effect when it adds something to the slideshow. Simple crossfade is the best IMHO.

regards

Sean

Jan 28, 2008 at 05:08 PM

Brian Lingle
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p.2 #25 · HD: The Media is the Message

Wow! Live webcasts. Of course! Thanks, Marco1953. Videographers should be offering that as an add-on, now.

Jan 28, 2008 at 06:57 PM


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