HD: The Media is the Message

Moderated by: Steve Tinetti, guardian

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules
Wedding Resource List

FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Image Upload

2 3 end

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #1 · HD: The Media is the Message

For those who aren't familiar with the term, "Disruptive technology", it basically means: Every time a significant new technology comes along it disrupts the old way of doing things. Businesses that embrace it innovatively often prosper and businesses that don't adapt often suffer.

Another reference to this, from around 1969, is in a book called, "The Media is the Message", by Marshall McCluhan (spelling?). He describes the way we start out with a new technology - using it to do things the way we did with the old one. Over time, what we do and how we do it is changed by the new technology. The first filmed movies looked like stage plays. The early dialogues in tv and film sounded like radio plays - you didn't have to watch to follow what's happening. Eventually movie and tv producers, writers and actors learned how to use the new media to its full potential.

LCD and plasma screen technology is improving and becoming more and more affordable and images look really good lit up on a wall sized screen. I have no doubt that more and more people are going to prefer to view their wedding photos on their 52" and larger HD screens. Much better than thumbing through a book and viewing photos in what is often less than perfect lighting conditions. Some will want the book, too. Some people love books and prints. Compare, though, how many households have invested in large screen tv's with how many have invested in wall portraits. It doesn't take a prophet to see the direction of things. It totally makes sense. I consider it a given.

And, the difference between amateur work and a collection of images that are lit, composed, captured and processed by a skillled professional really shows on a wall sized HD screen. Something for the photograper and the client to show off with pride.

Edited by Brian Lingle on Jan 23, 2008 at 02:03 PM GMT

Edited on Jan 23, 2008 at 08:03 PM

Jan 23, 2008 at 07:37 PM

coreypolis
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #2 · HD: The Media is the Message

that day is definitely here, but I haven't seen any less interest in a printed album. That said the request for the use of additional technology to go with the prints is through the roof. Ipod proofing, cell phone images, digital picture frames, facebook/myspace . . .

here's album page on a 42" 1080p plasma

Jan 23, 2008 at 07:44 PM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #3 · HD: The Media is the Message

Thanks, coreypolis. Excellent example. That design looks good in that format, too.

I raised this point in a small discussion group with an Art Leather rep 3 years ago and he countered by saying that screen resolution was not nearly as good as print res. (HD wasn't available at that time.) I believed then and I continue to believe that the day is rapidly approaching when the majority of clients will prefer to view their wedding collections on their wall sized tv's. That will become the standard and printed albums will be considered optional.

I don't think the photo viewing technology for tv screens is quite as handy as it will be. And, I don't expect the transition to happen overnight, though it may feel like that in the last stage.

Edited on Jan 23, 2008 at 08:05 PM

Jan 23, 2008 at 07:55 PM

BarnDog
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #4 · HD: The Media is the Message

I have been struggling with "Disruptive technology" in regard to one of the products we deliver with our packages.

We include a DVD montage of select pictures set to music. These are made as DVD movies. The DVD's look great on a tube TV but on a plasma or projection TV lose a bit.

I would like to cater to the Plasma, Hi-Def displays but have been unable to create a DVD movie with enough resolution to pull this off.

Do we need to start producing Blu-Ray or Hi-Def DVD's and offer those based on the display to be viewed upon?

It's like the high speed vs. dial-up dilemma w/ web sites. Do we go all flash and alienate the dial-up users, cater to both by doubling our web presence or try to compete with "older" technology so we capture a diminishing segment of the market?

It is definitely disruptive, it is definitely here and it is definitely a cost of doing business to succeed.

Jan 23, 2008 at 08:06 PM

oasis
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #5 · HD: The Media is the Message

Same issue as BarnDog. We've got a 52" 1080p in the studio and haven't been able to use it to its fullest potential.

Creating a 1080p (1920x1080) movie/slideshow that can play smoothly is difficult. I'm interested in this so we can convert our current slideshows that clients watch to play on the big screen in native resolution. I suppose it ought to work if you've got a powerful enough computer hooked up to the display...

As for client discs, yeah, being able to burn Blu-ray or HD-DVD (probably blu-ray) discs will become important based on whether your client has the hardware to play and view. Right now, that technology costs a premium and isn't very reliable, so I can't imagine jumping in yet. Even Blu-ray *players* are so unreliable right now. I just went through THREE versions of the same player, and each one had a different problem and didn't like different blu-ray discs. But yeah, as soon as the tech is reliable enough, we'll definitely be providing hi-def compatible products in our packages.
Within a year, things will change...

Edited on Jan 23, 2008 at 08:18 PM

Jan 23, 2008 at 08:17 PM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #6 · HD: The Media is the Message

BarnDog and oasis, Thanks for jumping in. That's one of the discussions we need to be having. That's exciting.

Jan 23, 2008 at 08:49 PM

DragonflyDM
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #7 · HD: The Media is the Message

All this new technology does is stress that we have to charge where our value lies--- in our skill to capture key moments with artistic craftsmanship. There will come a point where video cameras will be able to shoot at ISO 50,000, every one of the 30 frames per second will be a full frame 24 MP image, and everyone will be able to stop frame and make a beautiful print.

I remember when typesetters and paginators outnumbered journalists at the newspaper. I remember when we had film cutters at the TV stations. I remember when people couldn't do desktop publishing. I have a full time staff of five (and three part time freelancers) who do the majority of the work for three national 148 page monthly magazines. In 1988 that would have needed dozens of people to get this amount of work done. Because of the internet, cell phones, InDesign, etc., we are very efficient.

Today, a local established photographer no longer competes with other established photographers. Every person with a website levels the field a bit. Our websites are not local but global advertisements and storefronts. New photographers can build clientelle quickly through inexpensive digital campaigns and build up a client base someone twenty years ago would need years to develop.

Another change I notice are studios. My first studio was huge, because I needed the room for the lights, scrims, barn doors, heat dispersal, etc. Now, I can set up a studio in a closet with great improvements in softboxes, flashes, etc.

Jan 23, 2008 at 10:21 PM

venkman
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #8 · HD: The Media is the Message

The thing that intrigues me the most about a 'digital package' is the ability to control the process from start to finish and eliminate a lot of the outsourcing. Turn around times would go through the roof.

I'm currently researching/planning a digital album with the specific purpose of bringing the traditional album into the digital age. Think a 12" touchscreen slate PC with custom software to handle the slideshow/album speads/etc. Phase 2 would be to go beyond that and add video support so that the device will be all inclusive of the media that was gathered at the event. Slim. Portable. Dynamic.

The tech exists today. Just need to make it happen. Combine this with a photoframe from http://www.photovu.com and you got one kicking digital package. Heck, throw in some iPod touches for the parent albums!

Brian is right, this is the way the industry will be moving, and I'd prefer to be driving the bandwagon.

Edited on Jan 23, 2008 at 10:24 PM

Jan 23, 2008 at 10:22 PM

BarnDog
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #9 · HD: The Media is the Message

This topic has been gnawing at the back of my brain for some time since the proliferation of digital imaging and the "computerization" of images delivered to clients.

This is analogous to the music industry and has caused tremendous growing pains for record companies and the entire distribution chain not to mention the ease of piracy and licensing upheaval. It has also enabled new technologies to begin and grow such as the "legal" music download sites, artists offering content directly to the end user and phenomenon such as you-tube.

Setting aside digital content, whether it be music, images, video, etc. I want to specifically focus on digital camera bodies.

The digital camera has taken the life cycle of personal computers. A personal computer to be "current" must be replaced at least every 18 months. This is beginning to be the case with camera bodies as well. Even though Nikon and Canon seem to be trying to slow the process (this is a whole other topic) to better manage changing technologies, the newcomers and lower market share companies are fast rolling the changes to gain greater market share. This adds another layer of cost to the present day wedding photographer in the constant updating of hardware to keep current with the technology so that you do not lose market share to newcomers and other studios who offer latest new capabilities. Sure you could still be running your business with a 10D but for how long? The life cycle is considerably shorter than film days for camera bodies. At the same time, there have been tremendous advances in technology allowing us to be more flexible and have greater creative control than we could during film days. (when I say we I mean the mere mortal who only needs a PC, and photoshop vs. your own developing / enlarging equipment etc..)

The other side of the coin of this is that the technology is at some point leveling the playing field in that the minimum requirement to enter this industry has gotten quite low. You do not need a medium format film system to be considered a "pro" photographer. If you think about the cost of starting a wedding photography business today vs. 15 years ago it is astounding how cheap it is to get going with a professional look. $800 camera, $1000 in lenses, $200 in web presence, $1000 in computer / software. So this encourages the market to be saturated, thereby driving prices down to compete while costs are increasing due to the changing technology. Hopefully, since this is a service based industry and is in the artistic realm, price will not be quantified by tangible product delivery but more by the intangible skill of the artist.

Edited on Jan 23, 2008 at 10:34 PM

Jan 23, 2008 at 10:30 PM

butchM
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #10 · HD: The Media is the Message

Technology is always a concern. We need to be nimble enough to keep pace with consumer's needs and desires if we want to be successful in the future.

I recently had an experience in reverse. I was approached by a professor from the local state university to do be a guest instructor to do a seminar on wet dark room techniques, focusing on B&W printing.

My first question was, "Are you really still teaching that?" I explained to the professor that even though I thoroughly enjoyed working the dark room, was he really preparing his students for the market place?

He argued that traditional methods were more "artistic". I then asked him if he considered an oil panting more "artistic" than a water color painting? My thoughts are, the content is the most important part of the project, regardless of the medium in which it is presented. However, the course is required for all journalism students at the school. I went on to enlighten him, that I was a full-time PJ for 24 years and that I don't know of one major or medium market newspaper or magazine that still has a functioning dark room. Why was he wasting his student's time and effort (and tuition) on learning a technique that was not going to prepare them for a job in the current market?

I don't care if my mechanic can fix a transmission on a Model T, I just want to know if he can stop my ABS braking system from rattling at every stop light.

If we want to do business in the 21st Century, we have to evolve with the technology and put it to our best advantage.

PS - I did do the seminar on the condition that I would be allowed to explain that what I was teaching them would have little value on their resume and they would need to be very adept at more modern techniques to compete in the market place.

Jan 24, 2008 at 05:45 AM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #11 · HD: The Media is the Message

dragonfly, Are you the owner/publisher of the magazines or do they outsource the work to you? It's impressive, either way. RE: future videos, it will still come down to lighting, choosing location, angle, background, directing, and editing. I suppose, to compete, we might bring in MUA's and such. The difference between production quality in movies is apparent and that will show in the videos. Hopefully, we'll have extra high quality LED (or better) lighting with low battery consumption for production quality continuous lighting by then.

venkman, Wouldn't a laptop with the screen that rotates for use as a notepad do that? Or am I missing something, like dedicated purpose lowering cost?

BarnDog, So far, I've upgraded to a new Nikon model 4 times in 3-4 years. Every time, the advantages seemed worth the cost. I've been wanting them to come out with a lower noise, CMOS sensor since I first heard them. It will really matter in some wedding situations. So, there's upgrade #4. I still use a D70s as backup and for shooting less critical parts of the wedding, though, partly for the smaller file size and also because, in a lot of situations it doesn't make that much difference. I met a guy last year who grew up in a photography school, assisted with weddings from age 11, and charges $5,000 minimum per wedding, who was shooting a wedding with a Rebel, set at 4MP for resolution. (Said he doesn't like big 6MP files.) He said he can print 20x30 if the exposure is right. I checked out the photos from the wedding on his website and they were outstanding. He's a master of light.

Jan 24, 2008 at 05:59 AM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #12 · HD: The Media is the Message

I've been wondering: In order for an image to look good on a big screen in HD, does it have to be a high res image or will the low res images people put in slideshows on DVD's look good? I don't have the technology to test it - or do I?

I got a HD-HD connector and plugged my D300 into the plasma screen and the images were excellent. I guess I could shoot the smallest size, lowest res files it shoots at and see how those look.

BTW, my particular model of plasma tv won't accept the hd signal from my computer so I was thinking I could use my camera to play slideshows. Shot some pix and they played just fine. Downloaded images from my computer to the CF, put the CF in the camera and... the camera won't read images from my computer, either.

Jan 24, 2008 at 06:08 AM

DragonflyDM
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #13 · HD: The Media is the Message

Heck no, I am not the owner/publisher. That is the work of some VERY entrepreneurial spirits. I am the managing editor of G.I. Jobs magazine, and I am also the Assistant Editor for Military Spouse and Vetrepreneur magazines (mostly because the managing editors for those magazines are telecommuters). I am also the PR/and Media guy.

My point about the video camera isn't about video, but stills. There will be a point were we will see $2,000 cameras that will shoot 30 frames per second for the length of the memory card. They already have a video camera that can do it, but it is $14k right now. When that happens, you will see most of the wedding photographers go away.

The solution isn't in adding gimmick services like another assistant for make-up. The bride will have her own make-up person. The solution is to add value to the process. Only those photographers that can demonstrate the have the skill to be worth working that camera and control the light will get the work. 30 frames per second won't mean much if it is out of focus, poorly composed and uninspired.

Unfortunately, with changing tech comes changing expectations. There will be more weddings that will opt to "do i themselves" and accept "good enough." I know that has happened in most industries. Many employers would rather hire a mediocre employee that can get the work done cheap than a great employee that will strain the budget.

Brian Lingle wrote:
dragonfly, Are you the owner/publisher of the magazines or do they outsource the work to you? It's impressive, either way. RE: future videos, it will still come down to lighting, choosing location, angle, background, directing, and editing. I suppose, to compete, we might bring in MUA's and such. The difference between production quality in movies is apparent and that will show in the videos. Hopefully, we'll have extra high quality LED (or better) lighting with low battery consumption for production quality continuous lighting by then.

Jan 24, 2008 at 11:28 AM

venkman
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #14 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian,

You're right, that would certainly work, but the concept is to keep it clean so that is doesn't truly look like computer.

- Dan

Jan 24, 2008 at 03:04 PM

Mike Mahoney
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #15 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
I continue to believe that the day is rapidly approaching when the majority of clients will prefer to view their wedding collections on their wall sized tv's. That will become the standard and printed albums will be considered optional.

My thought on viewing wedding photos & albums is they have an emotional quality about them that does not translate well to screen viewing.

Like a Christmas card, or a handwritten letter from a distant family member, or reading a child's bedtime story there is something about actually holding the medium that transcends the mere visual information being presented.

Jan 24, 2008 at 03:44 PM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #16 · HD: The Media is the Message

Mike, What you're describing is what I meant when I said some people like books and prints. I think you described it much better and with a lot more insight regarding the emotional aspect. Maybe I'm wrong about print albums becoming a secondary, less and less ordered product.

No doubt, knock-your-socks-off, multimedia video/photo shows will more and more become a high quality product marketed to high end clients. Album designs are already an art form in themselves, making the better albums a work of art rather than just a lovely container for photos.

venkman, Are you referring to using low res files for HD slideshows? I'm thinking, if the fies have to be high res to show well, then supplemental sales of wall prints and such would decrease. People would ignore copyright and get their own prints. The files will already have been edited and touched up for a high end digital "album", so they could get decent prints from them. On the other hand, a consumer ordering a wall sized print should raise red flags enough for any lab to double-check regarding copyright issues.

dragonfly, I like what you said, "...those photographers that can demonstrate the have the skill to be worth working that camera and control the light will get the work. 30 frames per second won't mean much if it is out of focus, poorly composed and uninspired."

The people that create the lighting for movies and the better cinematographers are masters of their trade and the public responds to good work. There will always be a market for quality. And quality requires skill, training and work.

Edited by Brian Lingle on Jan 24, 2008 at 10:30 AM GMT

Edited by Brian Lingle on Jan 24, 2008 at 10:31 AM GMT

Edited on Jan 24, 2008 at 04:31 PM

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:25 PM

Kiron Kid
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #17 · HD: The Media is the Message

Well said, Mike M. I agree.

KK

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:27 PM

coreypolis
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #18 · HD: The Media is the Message

Brian Lingle wrote:
I've been wondering: In order for an image to look good on a big screen in HD, does it have to be a high res image or will the low res images people put in slideshows on DVD's look good? I don't have the technology to test it - or do I?

I got a HD-HD connector and plugged my D300 into the plasma screen and the images were excellent. I guess I could shoot the smallest size, lowest res files it shoots at and see how those look.

BTW, my particular model of plasma tv won't accept the hd signal from my computer so I was thinking I could use my camera to play slideshows. Shot some pix and they played just fine. Downloaded images from my computer to the CF, put the CF in the camera and... the camera won't read images from my computer, either.

We take full size images and resize them to the dimensions of the TV (1920 x 1080 IIRC) and connect it via HDMI to DVI cable to our macbookpro.

DVD's are the bottleneck, as most don't have HD DVD/BluRay yet and non HD won't look great.

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:31 PM

coreypolis
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #19 · HD: The Media is the Message

Josh, the future wit multipurpose cameras you described is already here, not to that extent, but if you haven't seen www.red.com its worth checking out.

Jim Jannard, founder of Oakley and former FMer with a passion for photography has started his own company and has amazing products that will change the future for sure.

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:33 PM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #20 · HD: The Media is the Message

Right now, my clients are a lot more interested in albums than slideshows. Albums as an art form are really having their day.

When HD photo media become more accessable, I think the ability so see images, high res in large format, with all the same design capabilities and more, will make HD photo "albums" much more desirable.

Most photraphers don't give their clients presentations with print proofs anymore. They use digital projectors and wall sized LCD's and plasma screens. The impact is much greater. For the same reason, clients will want to use the same media. In fact, when you use the media to wow the client on the product, you're also wowing the client on the media.

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:44 PM

alkorn
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #21 · HD: The Media is the Message

We are using 50" plasma for our presentations. Connected directly from PC through DVI -->HDMI 1920x1080. Couples are blown away with clarity and quality of images they see, I've had several e-mails stating that. One neat trick: I have "ATI remote wonder" wireless remote for PC, I give it to bride so she can view and advance to next image or go back as she pleases (before I was advancing my self on a second 24" LCD monitor). They do like having more control (turning pages in an album so to say).
Ohh, one more thing, I have PS3 hooked through HDMI too. PS3 (80G) has card readers and I tried viewing right out of the card images. From 5D images directly on screen looked just as much incredible, smooth and clear even with no PP.
It's another option, it's just PS3 game controllers are not that "easy" to use as regular remote, I think. PS3 has very nice slide show software built in too.

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:47 PM

butchM
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #22 · HD: The Media is the Message

Mike Mahoney wrote:

Like a Christmas card, or a handwritten letter from a distant family member, or reading a child's bedtime story there is something about actually holding the medium that transcends the mere visual information being presented.

I couldn't agree more. However, how many of those who will be walking down the aisle over the next decade, really take the time to send a hand written note or even greeting cards. The younger generation is all about texting, IM's, etc., etc.

While I hope that traditional albums and prints will remain in demand for quite some time, I think we may have to offer other products to stay competitive and meet customer expectations.

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:47 PM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #23 · HD: The Media is the Message

coreypolis, Sounds great, but $24,000 for a camera and one 18-55mm lens? I'll be a lot more interested when the prices are more in dragonfly's $2,000 range. Maybe $2,000 and we can use our Nikon, Canon, other brand dslr lenses.

Jan 24, 2008 at 04:58 PM

Brian Lingle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #24 · HD: The Media is the Message

My Hitachi plasma screen won't work with the DVI-HDMI from my computer. I call tech support and the Hitachi tech told me that my particular model won't accept a signal from a computer. If I plug my D300 in, HD-HD, the images are great, as long as I captured them in the camera. I'd like to be able to show clients the images after they've been edited on my computer, though. Any ideas on how I can transfer them to the tv in a form it will show well? I really don't want to buy another tv or a digital projector at this point.

Edited on Jan 24, 2008 at 05:09 PM

Jan 24, 2008 at 05:07 PM

Mike Mahoney
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #25 · HD: The Media is the Message

butchM wrote:
However, how many of those who will be walking down the aisle over the next decade, really take the time to send a hand written note or even greeting cards. The younger generation is all about texting, IM's, etc., etc.

For sure ... I've teenagers and know firsthand their adversion to picking up a pen or book, yet they happily spend hours texting friends. And judging by the number of Christmas cards my son voluntarily sends every year I'll not be buying any Hallmark shares.

But I just don't see extending this behavior to wedding albums .. a wedding book and it's content are just about perfect together for viewing and that may not a generational thing. We'll see.

Jan 24, 2008 at 05:20 PM


FM Forums \| Wedding Photographer \| Join Image Upload 1 2 3 end