Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

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hubsand
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p.1 #1 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Presumably this thread will be moved if a medium format digital thread is established, but in the meantime, I suspect that the people using 'alternative' lenses on Canon cameras are the same people who would be interested in taking the same MO up to the larger format now that prices are comparable (actually, a Mamiya 645 / ZD system works out a little cheaper than a 1Ds II / III with those 'alternative' lenses!)

Initial Mamiya ZD review now online: more detailed tests follow . . .

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 08, 2007 at 09:08 PM

hubsand
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p.1 #2 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

It's an AFD. I bought it used: can't quite believe that the shutter always makes a noise like that!

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 08, 2007 at 09:31 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #3 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Well, simply a great objective review thus far. Cannot wait to see some of your images from the various mamiya Glass. I'm also very interested in your statements regarding noise if the exposure is not nailed and needing to always expose to the right. As a rule, this is opposite to the way I normally work with my 5D as I always shoot to preserve that highlight detail and know I can go digging into the shadows a lot before noise becomes an issue. Seems your saying that the Mamiya will not easily blow the highlights but forget about recovering anything from those shadows.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 08, 2007 at 11:11 PM

RobertP
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p.1 #4 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

The best review of the ZD back in the world so far.

Keep it comin'.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 12:02 AM

hubsand
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p.1 #5 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Absolutely. First impressions (and I can feel Frank about to join in here) are that it's 'differently forgiving' from the 5D. The Canon chips are inherently better engineered to dampen noise.

With the 5D, up to ISO400, I'm used to pushing shadows and midtones as much as two stops in post production before noise becomes an issue. Try doing that with the ZD and you'll be looking at chroma noise so ghastly it would be ruinous at web-res. At ISO 50-100 I can push it maybe 1.5 stops before noise becomes troublesome enough to need blurring away by LR's noise reduction. You do not want to try the same trick with a ZD back at ISO 200. However, at ISO 100 the files look much more robust than the ZD body samples I've seen.

In general shooting, I'm planning on keeping +2/3 of a stop permanently dialled in by by default. Again, I don't know whether the Mark II has better metering, but my Mark I is prone to underexpose in all the situations you'd expect it to do so. The camera is so slow anyway – in light and speed terms – another second on the shutter hardly seems to matter!

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 12:13 AM

SLane
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p.1 #6 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Nice review, I got the ZD back last week, using it with an AFD, had been using the Kodak pro back. Tomorrow the RZ67 II D (with 50mm ULD & 140mm Macro) and adapter plate arrive. I also picked up an AF and sent it in for the free upgrade to AFD. Maybe we can get the MF sticky thread back if enough folks buy a ZD.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 06:02 AM

Conner999
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p.1 #7 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Nicely done. Looking fwd to more.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 10:56 AM

asabet
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p.1 #8 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Really enjoyed reading your first impressions!

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 01:14 PM

hubsand
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p.1 #9 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Here's a shot handheld (full frame and 100% actual pixels inset, unsharpened) with the Pentacon 6 Zeiss Jena Sonnar 180mm f2.8, wide open at f2.8 and ISO 80 at a distance of about 2m.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Even with +2/3 exposure compensation it still needed lifting almost another whole stop in LR. This is pretty much an out-of-the-box conversion apart from that: no highlight recovery was applied. I am right on the bottom of the learning curve for LR, and not enjoying it.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 01:35 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #10 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

What's going on with his right shoulder where the highlight transitions to dark? Looks like some Green Aberrations of some sort. How does this area look at 100%.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 02:14 PM

Dergiman
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p.1 #11 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

hubsand, this is some serious resolution!!!

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 02:16 PM

johnastovall
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p.1 #12 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

SLane wrote:
Nice review, I got the ZD back last week, using it with an AFD, had been using the Kodak pro back. Tomorrow the RZ67 II D (with 50mm ULD & 140mm Macro) and adapter plate arrive. I also picked up an AF and sent it in for the free upgrade to AFD. Maybe we can get the MF sticky thread back if enough folks buy a ZD.

What's this about a free upgrade for an AF to AFD? I have an AF.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 02:35 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #13 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Now that I'm looking at the image on my Studio Monitor, I'm also seeing some slight green Moire pattern in the 100% crop you posted Hubsand. Nothing serious, but its there along with some other strange artifacts such as white specks.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 03:27 PM

foto-z
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p.1 #14 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

There are definitely some weird red/green artefacts showing in the skin.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 04:10 PM

Lotusm50
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p.1 #15 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

And I thought that was just the typical English complexion. ;-)

foto-z wrote:
There are definitely some weird red/green artefacts showing in the skin.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 04:14 PM

hubsand
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p.1 #16 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Lotusm50 wrote:
And I thought that was just the typical English complexion. ;-)
foto-z wrote:
There are definitely some weird red/green artefacts showing in the skin.

How dare you, sir! You besmirch our good name and character; yea, I shall have satisfaction or be hung for a gosling's snitchet, in sooth.

This is an f2.8 MF lens shot wide open, but CA is very well controlled in the Sonnar 180 usually, manifesting as a little blue/yellow fringing in the corners of the frame. I can't pinpoint the green aberration, and LR can't correct it. Looks like a manual PS correction job.

Perhaps that's why Mamiya provides a optional low pass filter . . . .

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 04:38 PM

vyanush
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p.1 #17 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

hubsand wrote:
Perhaps that's why Mamiya provides a optional low pass filter . . . .

Actually, they don't PROVIDE but SELL it for $1000

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 04:55 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #18 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

I at first thought the Green Aberration was a lens issue and it might be but the Moire and white specks are a sensor or processing issue I would think. Its odd that there is an obvious green cast to the skin in some areas but then in others the skin looks more magenta. I wonder if the same issue would show up using the Mamiya lenses in the same situation.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 04:57 PM

hubsand
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p.1 #19 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

I've just been experimenting with the RAW file in LR and DxO . . . when the file is developed 'Zeroed', the fringe manifests as a subtle dark halo. However, the meter was tricked by the sunlight reflecting off the skin and underexposed by about a stop. Restoring this in post, and correspondingly upping the saturation, pushes the halo into a green fringe.

Given the same underexposed file, DxO also processes it with a green fringe. Manual PS correction does a better job.

Everything about this camera punishes you for the slightest underexposure.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 05:17 PM

Brent Ward
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p.1 #20 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

hubsand wrote:
I've just been experimenting with the RAW file in LR and DxO . . . when the file is developed 'Zeroed', the fringe manifests as a subtle dark halo. However, the meter was tricked by the sunlight reflecting off the skin and underexposed by about a stop. Restoring this in post, and correspondingly upping the saturation, pushes the halo into a green fringe.

Given the same underexposed file, DxO also processes it with a green fringe. Manual PS correction does a better job.

Everything about this camera punishes you for the slightest underexposure.

That's why it doesn't seem to be better then a 1ds II after everything is considered.

Image quality seems to be slightly better, but not worth all the other stuff you have to accept.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 07:18 PM

RobertP
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p.1 #21 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

hubsand, try SilkyPix with the ZD files, and if you're on a mac, try raw developer as well.

For me, Lightroom/ACR gives too much of the water color look, and so far, playing with SilkyPix, it does pretty much the same thing, which is why I stick with Capture One, but too bad C1 doesn't support the ZD files.

BTW, I took your crop sample into DPP (as a jpeg) and ran a Chrominance noise reduction twice, and it pretty much got rid of the green/red aberrations, along with the color noise in the background from your full-frame shot. Color noise is my arch enemy.

Regarding the Mamiya 645AF trade in deal - I believe, that basically, you can buy a really really cheap used Mamiya 645AF, and Mamiya will exchange it with a Mamiya 645AFD for free. NOT an AFD2, but an AFD.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 07:21 PM

Pham Minh Son
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p.1 #22 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

I also like using Raw Developer and Capture One for all my digital backs.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 08:59 PM

Quentin
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p.1 #23 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

I'd second Silkypix for the ZD. I've owned the camera for about a year now and Silky, suitably tweaked, does a great job. The manual macro lens is well worth trying.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 09, 2007 at 10:23 PM

J.A.F. Doorhof
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p.1 #24 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

Good to see more reviews.
On the shadow part I must disagree a LITTLE bit.
When shot on ISO50 you can recover quite some shadow detail.
More than with the Canon, although that is of course logical because the Canon is a bit more noisy on ISO50 and ISO100.
The ZD is really very clean.

Love to hear more opinions.

What I can echoe is the sheer sharpness and detail, even without sharpening the detail from the 120MM macro is jawdropping.

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 10, 2007 at 07:11 AM

Pham Minh Son
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p.1 #25 · Mamiya ZD: First Impressions

J.A.F. Doorhof wrote:
Good to see more reviews.
On the shadow part I must disagree a LITTLE bit.
When shot on ISO50 you can recover quite some shadow detail.
More than with the Canon, although that is of course logical because the Canon is a bit more noisy on ISO50 and ISO100.
The ZD is really very clean.

Love to hear more opinions.

What I can echoe is the sheer sharpness and detail, even without sharpening the detail from the 120MM macro is jawdropping.

I agree with your analysis here. Medium format back is simply a different beast and you cannot compare two sensor at the same ISO. Instead compare them at their optimal ISO. I also have the P20 and the best ISO is at 50. When shooting at ISO 50 it simply blow away the Leica M8 in terms of resolving details, color and noise. Folks will always speak highly of having higher ISO setting but never speak about the ability of the sensor that can do well at lower ISO. There is a great advantage of having ISO 50 when you do not carry on location a powerful flash. Download the images and see them in Photoshop since they are not resizing properly on the web here.

1. Leica M8 at F5.6

This image is copyrighted by the owner

2. Rollei at F5.6/P20

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Edited on Oct 23, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Aug 10, 2007 at 01:58 PM


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