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Archive 2007 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)

  
 
Mauro Aguirre
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p.1 #1 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


First of all, I would like to congratulate all members and Fred Miranda on this great Forum. Its been a great help for me in deciding which camera to buy as my first DSLR.

This is my first post. I would like to ask to anyone interested in helping for their imput in the lenses that I have in mind for my first DSLR.

I have decided to buy the Canon Rebel XTi (400D). I plan on buying the following lenses for a start.

Kit Lens +
50/1.4 USM

I have also thought about the following lens combination (stretching my budget)

Kit Lens
50mm/ 1.8II
85mm/ 1.8 USM

Both the 50/1.4 and 85/ 1.8 are highly rated in this forum.

My wife and I are about to have a baby and this is the main motive for buying my first DSLR. I want the best photos I can get of my pregnant wife and soon to be born son.

Any suggestions or comments are appreciated.



Jul 10, 2007 at 09:13 AM
alexandre
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p.1 #2 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


I think you have to have something useful for low light on the wide side.
I suggest you a 430 flash, a better "kit" lens (Tamron 17-50 was my choice), or both.
I have both 50's, start with the cheaper one.
Don't know if you NEED the 85 1.8 for this kind of use.



Jul 10, 2007 at 10:04 AM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #3 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


Kit lens, 50mm f/1.8, and 85mm f/1.8 is an excellent choice. You should buy a flash as well, but you need to make sure it has a bounce head. You can pick up a used 420EX pretty cheaply.


Jul 10, 2007 at 10:06 AM
24Peter
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p.1 #4 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


If you were doing "face" portraits, I'd say definitely go for the 85 1.8. It's my most used portrait lens. Since you're looking for body shots too (of the wife), the suggestion of a better kit lens (like the Tamron) is a good one. The 50 1.8 would also serve you well here.


Jul 10, 2007 at 10:15 AM
tmr_wa
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p.1 #5 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


I like your suggestions, and I don't think you can go wrong with either option. That said, I would go for the 85 over the 50. The 85/1.8 is a really nice lens and it's built better than the 50/1.4 with faster AF. I think my 85 is sharper at f/1.8 than my 50/1.4, but not by much. My 85/1.8 does exhibit more purple fringing than the 50/1.4, but for most portrait applications, this isn't problematic. The 85/1.8 doesn't focus particularly close, but even still, you'll be able to get some fine, tightly cropped images without flash.

If it's stretching the budget as you say (and kids aren't cheap!), I think even the kit lens + 85/1.8 would suffice. Then, you could pick up the 50/1.8 at a later date if you find the 85/1.8 too long.

--tom



Jul 10, 2007 at 10:30 AM
Mauro Aguirre
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p.1 #6 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


Again, congratulations to all for this forum. It's great to be able to participate in a forum where members create such a great atmosphere for those who need help.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will go with the kit+ 85/1.8 and later look at the tamaron zoom.

Regards,



Jul 10, 2007 at 11:03 AM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #7 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


Mauro Aguirre wrote:
Again, congratulations to all for this forum. It's great to be able to participate in a forum where members create such a great atmosphere for those who need help.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will go with the kit+ 85/1.8 and later look at the tamaron zoom.

Regards,


Great, but why not get the 50mm f/1.8 too? It's super-cheap. While the 85mm is useful for more than just tight face shots indoors, especially of a baby, the 50mm focal length on your camera will be better for shots of the newborn and mother together.

Also, you should buy either a flash or a tripod, or both. Why? Well, imagine you're using your 85mm f/1.8 to take a picture of your sleeping child, who's not moving. You find that you have to shoot at 1/160s to avoid shake, or even your "keepers" come out not perfectly sharp. Even shooting at f/1.8 (which means you will find it hard to get much of the baby's face in focus), you find yourself forced to take pictures at ISO 1600 due to the muted light in the hospital room.

Instead, you could have greater freedom to stop down a little (widening the DOF while still keeping a good background, and greatly improving the optical performance of the lens), and get MUCH better quality by using somewhat lower ISOs (800 is much better than 1600 on the XTi), if you used just a touch of flash or used a tripod to drop your shutter speed lower.



Jul 10, 2007 at 11:18 AM
Mauro Aguirre
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p.1 #8 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


jvarszegi wrote:
Great, but why not get the 50mm f/1.8 too? It's super-cheap. While the 85mm is useful for more than just tight face shots indoors, especially of a baby, the 50mm focal length on your camera will be better for shots of the newborn and mother together.

Also, you should buy either a flash or a tripod, or both. Why? Well, imagine you're using your 85mm f/1.8 to take a picture of your sleeping child, who's not moving. You find that you have to shoot at 1/160s to avoid shake, or even your "keepers" come out not perfectly sharp. Even shooting at
...Show more


Excellent. I just placed the order for the XTi with Kit Lens and 2GbX133 Lexar, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, Hood for 85/1.8 and polarizer for all lenses at BH Photo. I'll have to wait a couple of weeks for the flash.

I'm embarrassed to say that I've never been so exited about a purchase.

Thanks again,

Regards




Jul 10, 2007 at 11:47 AM
Alex Yang
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p.1 #9 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


i would prefer the 17-50 over the 85 f/1.8 I think you'll find on a 1.6 crop body that you'll more often have your 50 f/1.8 mounted in the house, and crop it later on. Using an 85 on an XTi/20d/30d is hard to use if you're in a small room, or want something more than just a person's face in the frame. Again, the 85 1.8 has many uses once you get more into photo, but at the moment it seems you will be happier with a wide angle zoom+50/1.8 based off what you plan to do.


Jul 10, 2007 at 12:29 PM
elader
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p.1 #10 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


the 85 is great for headshots but too much for indoors baby. Buy it later - get the tamron 17-50 as akit lens substitute and buy another lens when you know what you want. A flash that swivles (430EX) is also a GREAT next purchase.


Jul 10, 2007 at 12:58 PM
UCSB
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p.1 #11 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


Elader's recommendation is good ... Tamron 17-50 and 430EX flash. Start with that and get started. With babies you will have two years before you will need anything else.

Edited by UCSB on Jul 10, 2007 at 10:12 AM GMT



Jul 10, 2007 at 01:10 PM
Kenny Donahue
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p.1 #12 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


I agree with most of the others who say you want something wider for indoor full body shots.
I would skip the 85 1.8 and invest in a flash. You say you are new to DSLRs. Does that mean you are new to SLRs too? If so, 1.8 will frustrate you to no end. The depth of field will be very shallow and difficult to manage at first. With a good bounce flash, you can shoot indoors at f/8 and get the shots you want and play with the 50 at f/1.8 afterward and be more creative.

-Kenny




Jul 10, 2007 at 01:10 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #13 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


Kenny Donahue wrote:
I agree with most of the others who say you want something wider for indoor full body shots.
I would skip the 85 1.8 and invest in a flash. You say you are new to DSLRs. Does that mean you are new to SLRs too? If so, 1.8 will frustrate you to no end. The depth of field will be very shallow and difficult to manage at first. With a good bounce flash, you can shoot indoors at f/8 and get the shots you want and play with the 50 at f/1.8 afterward and be more creative.

-Kenny



I think that shooting indoors at f/8 is a recipe for ugly results. I politely disagree about shooting at wide apertures-- the AF system of the XTi can handle f/1.8 easily using the center focus point. The OP's only got one chance to shoot the birth.



Jul 10, 2007 at 02:03 PM
Kenny Donahue
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p.1 #14 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


jvarszegi wrote:
I think that shooting indoors at f/8 is a recipe for ugly results. I politely disagree about shooting at wide apertures-- the AF system of the XTi can handle f/1.8 easily using the center focus point. The OP's only got one chance to shoot the birth.


That is my point exactly. That's why I was saying go with the "f/8 and be there" way of thinking. I wasn't thinking about focus as much as depth of field. Shooting wide open is difficult. and the DOF is very narrow at 1.8 at that distance (1 to 2 inches). It would be a shame to get partial faces, one ear, a nose, etc...in focus and everyhting else a blur.

Just my thoughts anyway.
Best of luck,
-Kenny



Jul 10, 2007 at 02:39 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #15 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


Kenny Donahue wrote:
That is my point exactly. That's why I was saying go with the "f/8 and be there" way of thinking. I wasn't thinking about focus as much as depth of field. Shooting wide open is difficult. and the DOF is very narrow at 1.8 at that distance (1 to 2 inches). It would be a shame to get partial faces, one ear, a nose, etc...in focus and everyhting else a blur.

Just my thoughts anyway.
Best of luck,
-Kenny


I understand. I think the single best advice may be for the OP to practice like crazy to find out what works best for him.



Jul 10, 2007 at 03:23 PM
Mauro Aguirre
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p.1 #16 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


Beautiful responses to this thread. I've been lurking in this forum since registering in January. God knows that I've spent endless hours here, mostly looking at the People Photography part.

I'm planning to get more of equipment. Initially I really wanted the 30D but changed my mind after reading alot of the recomendations here and elsewhere in the forum, but mostly because of my budget.

I really want to take pictures in natural light, though I think that a flash will be a good investment.

My objective is facial expressions; my passion are eyes and trying to capture as much emotion as possible thru them. Thats why I bought the 85/1.8.

I like my 710IS but i've found it very inadequate for this, and I know that the 18 to 55 kit lens is very limited.

My next investment will be a better short zoom (the Tamaron is an excellent suggestion) and maybe a 70-200/4.0L (If money permits maybe a 2.8) when my son begins to walk.

Thanks again to all.






Jul 10, 2007 at 03:28 PM
mh2000
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p.1 #17 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


On my 20D, my most used lenses for portraits are a 35/2 and 50/1.8... followed by a 24-70L. I'd probably get the kit lens with those two primes and then decide if you want an 85.


Jul 10, 2007 at 03:52 PM
Kenny Donahue
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p.1 #18 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


jvarszegi wrote:
I understand. I think the single best advice may be for the OP to practice like crazy to find out what works best for him.


Yup. I agree
-Kenny (who should also practice more.....)



Jul 10, 2007 at 05:31 PM
alexandre
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p.1 #19 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


why not a medium f-stop and a bounced flash?


Jul 10, 2007 at 06:10 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #20 · Lenses for XTi (Portraits and People Photos)


alexandre wrote:
why not a medium f-stop and a bounced flash?


The f-stop is only part of the equation that determines how much light the flash will put out. In general, I've found this is an effective way to use a single shoe flash:

- choose the widest aperture possible whilst still getting the shot
- choose the highest ISO you can live with (usually in the 800-1600 range, after that the noise gets awful unless you have a fancy-shmancy 1DIII)
- choose the slowest shutter speed that will both freeze subject motion and counteract camera shake
- use manual mode
- bounce the flash on the ceiling, if possible-- and a fair distance away from the subject (this often means back over your shoulder)
- "gel" the flash to match the color of the ambient light

The first three measures are designed to reduce the amount of light the flash puts out. When you do this, the resulting exposure has much more ambient light than if, say, you shoot at f/11 ISO100 1/500s, in which case the flash would put out a nuclear blast of light, the picture would be very ugly with harsh shadows and a dark background, and the flash would eat up batteries quickly and take a long time to recycle between shots.

The resulting light can look very soft and natural:
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/101036795-L.jpg

The shot above is fairly stopped down for me, and what I would call borderline wasteful-- f/2.5, ISO 640. I could have shot at f/2.2, for instance, and had just slightly less DOF, which might have even improved the shot. Every third of a stop helps. Here's another, a little less harsh on the flash output even though at f/2.8:

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/95787206-L.jpg

Now, at the other end, we have shots like this, at ISO 100, f/16, 1/200s:
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/28806868-L.jpg

And the middle ground, at ISO 100, f/5.6, 1/200s:
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/38134252-L.jpg
Notice here the harsh shadow under the hand, the almost-blown ("hot") shirt, the dark background, etc. etc. etc. What could be done to improve this shot? Well, just going to ISO 200 would have halved the light put out by the flash, giving a huge benefit. But once you go to 200, why not 400? That would cut it to 1/4! This is the sort of learning and experimentation process that people usually go through when they're learning to shoot flash.

The difference is obvious. Once you start realizing you want to lessen the harshness of the flash, it becomes a tuning exercise-- how much softer can you make it? And your flash shots improve. The last shot is better than the one before it, but not as good as the first one I posted. (Or that's my strong opinion, anyway.)

All of this also explains why catchall advice, such as "always shoot at ISO 100 f/5.6" etc. is wrong. It's not necessarily wrong because the advice cannot work well on occasion-- it is wrong (IMHO) because it is wasteful for the situations where you could go with a wider aperture etc., and is doomed to failure when you need more DOF, which happens with groups fairly often.

To answer the question: if you need a middle aperture, so be it-- the shot demands it. But if you can reduce DOF and still get the necessary parts of the frame in focus, why not do it? The light will be less harsh on the subject, there will be more ambient / background light, and people used to seeing P & S pictures will swoon over your dreamy backgrounds.



Jul 10, 2007 at 07:03 PM
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