Build the perfect computer...

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Archive 2007 · Build the perfect computer...

M Burlingame
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p.1 #1 · Build the perfect computer...

Hello all,
I have a Dell system that has served me well, except the CD drives fail on a regular basis, but it's time to start thinking about a new machine. Before I order another system from Dell, I would love to hear what you feel are the most important compontents to have to enhance your workflow when processing large quantities of images. I'm wondering what size hard drive, how much memory, preference on graphic cards, etc... Also, do you feel it is better to build your own system or get one pre-made from Dell or Gateway, etc..
Any and all input would be greatly appreciated. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!!
Thank you!
Mary

Jun 22, 2007 at 04:50 PM

Jason Anderson
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p.1 #2 · Build the perfect computer...

Macintosh

Seriously, the cost is within $100 - $300 or so for comparable systems, and the platform is more friendly toward high end graphics. The trade-off is software conversion, but you can run XP via parallels or some other VMware and still use that.

To head this off at the pass - no mac versus PC wars please, I am a PC guy myself, but my next purchase will likely be a Mac for the reasons mentioned above.

If you want to stick with the PC route, that is a viable option if you are so inclined. To that end, any recommendations on vendors is subjective at best, but here's my take: As far as Dell versus HP versus Gateway, it depends on whether you want a desktop, laptop, or a desktop replacement (a laptop with desktop power). In order of preference, I'd say HP has the best deals lately, then Dell, and finally Gateway simply because of price points.

If you want to build your own, that's an option too but then it's you and Crucial, Intel, AMD, Maxtor, Western Digital, Creative Labs, etc dealing with any warranty issues, not just you and a vendor like Dell, Apple, HP, or whomever.

Having said the above, if you want to build your own, the three key components (in rank order) for photo editing are:

Processor: Dual Core is a requirement for future compatibility, recommend Core 2 Duo from Intel - stay away from 64 bit for the next couple years, it's not ready for prime time in terms of software availability yet

RAM: 2 Gigabyte is rapidly becoming the standard, take your pick on vendor. I personally like Kingston and Crucial

graphics card: You will be limited to certain vendors depending on your motherboard, but as long as you have a card with at least 256 MB of onboard RAM, you should be fine - high end graphics cards are really for gamers and over-clockers and the techno-nuts. Static images just don't need the same refresh rates that video does. The only hardware recommendation here is to get a card that has two plugs. If you have an older monitor, make sure one of them is VGA and the other is DVI. If you have a newer monitor, or plan on getting a second monitor soon, get a card with 2 DVI so you can go digital on both. Word of caution, on some Dell LCD's, plugging in via DVI prevents you from making contrast adjustments when profiling.

Anyway, there's hte highly subjective thoughts from one of the peanut gallery. As always, ymmv...best of luck in your purchase.

Jun 22, 2007 at 05:38 PM

Mark Zwiesler
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p.1 #3 · Build the perfect computer...

Jason;
Well put! Can't comment on the MAC part of it, but the PC advice was sound.

Mark

Jun 22, 2007 at 06:01 PM

wlescall
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p.1 #4 · Build the perfect computer...

I'm primarily a Mac guy, but I have built PC's and use them at work. The PC advice is spot on. If you are considering a Mac, I have several suggestions:

1. If you will be using Aperture, get a Mac Pro or the 24" iMac with upgraded video card. Aperture uses the processor on the video card for image processing.

2. If you can, find a store in your area that sells Macs & try one out. You have to feel comfortable with it. There is still a bit of a learning curve coming from PC's.

3. 2 GB of RAM is pretty much the standard. Don't buy the extra RAM from Apple. Use OWC or some other vendor. Apple charges a premium for additional RAM.

4. Check the Apple Store online for refurbs. Great deals can be found. For example: 20" iMac $1299, 24" iMac (not upgraded video card) $1699, 2.66 GHz Xeon Quad Mac Pro $2199, 3 GHz Quad Mac Pro $3299. The computers are advertised as the basic configurations; 'silent' upgrades occur frequently, YMMV. I got lucky with my 20" iMac - 500 GB HD (from 250) & 256 mb video card (from 128 MB) - Again YMMV.

Jun 24, 2007 at 02:40 AM

Jason Anderson
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p.1 #5 · Build the perfect computer...

Good to know about the refurbs - although I doubt I'll see many refurbs for the Mac Book Pro these days...*sigh*...so close I can taste it! My CFO (aka wife) is about a week of pestering away from letting me finance the thing!

Jun 24, 2007 at 03:52 AM

claudermilk
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p.1 #6 · Build the perfect computer...

As always the knee-jerk Mac comments.

It's a tool and is no better or worse than a PC, just different.

Definitely a dual-core processor, no less. 2GB RAM or more. As much fast drive space as you can stuff into the case--and it won't be enough. Now that I have dual monitors, I can say it makes a difference in efficiency dealing with many images; that extra desktop space goes fast and is vitally useful. Any decent dual-DVI video card will do, no need to spend a bunch on fancy SLI 3-D monsters for us.

My current system was bought as components all from Newegg and is more powerful and less expensive than an equivalent Dell would have been at the time. It's worth specing out a Dell, then seeing what an equivalent DIY from Newegg would cost. The BIOS and various interfaces are simple enough to work with these days it is pretty much a P-n-P deal now.

Jun 24, 2007 at 05:07 AM

Katie Hibner
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p.1 #7 · Build the perfect computer...

I built a computer a few months ago and have been running 64 bit XP with a minimum of problems (Adobes PDF printer doesn't work; that's about it).

I built the computer with photo editing and video encoding in mind. I went with Core 2 Duo E6600, 2 x2gb of ram, Abit IN 9 motherboard (high end quality, upgradeable to Core 2 Quad or extreme, capable of taking up to 32 GB of RAM), ATI x1650 graphics card, 1- 500GB HD, high efficiency power supply, and other essentials for just shy of $1500.

I really wanted a Mac pro but that was well beyond my budget; I had no interest in an iMac as I like the expandability of a tower, so my goal was maximum performance and ability to upgrade for my budget. The next addition to the tower for me will be a RAID 5 array of 500GB drives, or perhaps a NAS. The external eSATA ports on the motherboard are great for backing up to external HDs.

If you do build a computer and If you would like the excel sheet I created while pricing out various combinations of components, PM me. For instance, one of the combinations I priced out was a Dual Xeon Clovertown machine.

Jun 24, 2007 at 05:16 AM

wlescall
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p.1 #8 · Build the perfect computer...

Jason Anderson wrote:
Good to know about the refurbs - although I doubt I'll see many refurbs for the Mac Book Pro these days...*sigh*...so close I can taste it! My CFO (aka wife) is about a week of pestering away from letting me finance the thing!

There are 15" MacBook Pros at 2.16 GHz for $1599 & 2.33 GHz for $1999, and 17" ones for $2299. Pester away

Jun 24, 2007 at 08:29 AM

wlescall
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p.1 #9 · Build the perfect computer...

Read my second sentence.

is uncalled for. I tried to provide other options in addition to what Jason said.

claudermilk wrote:
As always the knee-jerk Mac comments.

Jun 24, 2007 at 08:33 AM

Jason Anderson
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p.1 #10 · Build the perfect computer...

Very interesting...so the question there is whether the changes are worth the extra $200 (I get an educational discount - about $200) on Mac products through my wife.)

I'll have to also remember to check on the NAPP page right before buying too...

Here's the differences between the refurbs and the new:

Low end
Proc: 2.13 vs 2.2
RAM: 1 GB vs 2 GB
DVD: 6x superdrive vs 8x superdrive
Video: ATI Radeon vs Nvidia GeForce 8600M

Mid grade
Proc: 2.33 vs 2.4
DVD: 6x vs 8x
Video: ATI vs Nvidia

Jun 24, 2007 at 03:15 PM

wlescall
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p.1 #11 · Build the perfect computer...

IIRC the NAPP discount is equal to the educational discount.

If you will be using Aperture, go for the newer MBP'S. Aperture will benefit from the better graphics card. And by all means max out your RAM at 4 GB, OSX loves RAM.

Jun 24, 2007 at 04:04 PM

Jason Anderson
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p.1 #12 · Build the perfect computer...

So the nvidia is better than the ATI's on Mac?

Jun 24, 2007 at 04:36 PM

wlescall
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p.1 #13 · Build the perfect computer...

That chipset is better than the previous ATI one.

Jun 24, 2007 at 06:32 PM

M Burlingame
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p.1 #14 · Build the perfect computer...

Thank you all for your help. Due to the amount of software I have I will have to stay with a PC but the MAC info is interesting also.

Knowing that I need to stay with a PC and I do NOT want to go to Vista so will be staying with XP, what size Processor would you recommed (given it's a duel core) and what is the difference between duel RAM vs. single

I'm going to keep my Samsung monitor so I assume that most graphic cards will be fine with it. Someone mentioned getting one with two plugs... Is that so you can run two monitors

Sorry to be asking such basic questions but I've never learned the inner workings of these machines so your help is greatly appreciated!! My interest and experience is with the camera, not the computer - Anymore though, you need to know them both!!
Thanks again.
Mary

Jun 25, 2007 at 04:38 AM

Tentacle
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p.1 #15 · Build the perfect computer...

Once we get down to basic PC hardware questions, this photography forum might not be the most efficient place to get your answers. But here goes...

First off, set yourself a budget. Then decide ready-made or home-build. Then find out what can be had for your inteded budget. If you're not experienced with selecting/choosing hardware and assembly, then I'd strongly suggest to shop at Dell, HP, IBM and the likes.

Specification-wise, you'll need more "horsepower" if you want to do a lot (or heavy) post processing. Right now the price-performance sweet spot sits at the Intel E6600 processor, or if you go AMD, it's around the Athlon X2 6000+.

Dual channel RAM means, in layman's terms, that there are two paths to the system memory, instead of a single path. It effectively doubles the throughput since there are two lanes instead of one. If you're working with memory intensive applications (and post processing definately is!) then dual channel is very useful. Don't confuse this with the amount of RAM, allthough you need at least 2 RAM modules to allow dual channel.

Dual output from the videocard is nice. You can hook up two screens and have the operating system extend the desktop. But for this to work best, you need two identical screens. Otherwise you'll have differences in color cast, contrast, color temperature, and so on. It's better (but also more expensive) to get a big widescreen TFT. (The Dell Ultrasharp 24" comes to mind.) A single big screen circumvents any issues with getting photos to look exactly identical on two physically separate screens.

Oh... and the remaining issue: Data integrity! Nowadays it's fairly common to have desktop systems that can mirror two hard disks. This is called RAID 1. RAID 1 reduces the chance of loosing data because, at the cost of using only half the available disk space (both disks contain the same data, it's stored twice), you can loose one of the two disks and still have all your data. It's not 100% fail-proof, because if a power spike or lightning fries both drives, you've still lost the content. But the chance of having both disks killed is a lot smaller.

Of course, DVD burners come pretty much as standard, so backing up to DVD will not be an issue.

Jun 25, 2007 at 08:47 AM

yellowducky
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p.1 #16 · Build the perfect computer...

I would recommend building your own ONLY if you plan on doing a high end machine. It is simply not possible to beat the price of a Dell or whoever on the low end or even medium end of things imho. As soon as you want 4 gigs of ram, for the installation upgrade from the base 512meg or 1 gig you get nailed for more than double or more the actual cost of each stick of ram - for simply plugging in a module!

As a basis for comparison for you, my last build was about 2000 usd in parts all in while getting it built at Dell (or Xi computer actually as Dell can't build as high an end pc as I use generally) was 4000 usd.

So you can save some decent money BUT you have to do the work - finding the right mobo, ram that is compatible with it, plugging stuff in, installing an OS etc etc etc. It is not for the not technically inclined.

If you are really interested in pursuing this avenue I highly recommend signing up at the boards at www.arstechnica.com as the people there are really nice, very helpful and extremely knowledgeable about 'rolling your own' as we call it.

Personally, I am due for an upgrade this year myself. My next build will probably be as follows:

Dual dual core opterons (as in 4 processors) - AMD is great bang for buck imho

4 gigs of ram (probably ecc as required by a board that supports dual opterons

36gig 15k rpm scsi hardrive for OS
36gig 15k rpm scsi hardrive for miscellaneous
78gig 10k rpm scsi for storage pending transfer to outboard 250gig external

600 watt power supply

video cards undecided at the moment (maybe 2, not sure)

The drives will come across from the current system so upgrade path not that expensive for me.

Regards.

Jun 25, 2007 at 10:03 AM

mdbassman
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p.1 #17 · Build the perfect computer...

Try these people for a top shelf job:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/

They only use the top line components and their pricing is competitive and their support is #1.

Dan

Jun 25, 2007 at 12:13 PM

M Burlingame
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p.1 #18 · Build the perfect computer...

A huge "Thank You" to all. You've given me a lot of great information as I was sure you would!! The FM community is fantastic!!!

Mary

Jun 25, 2007 at 05:50 PM

gbee
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p.1 #19 · Build the perfect computer...

Consider building your own for the fun, recreation and full customisability aspects, not costs, in fact you'll probably spend more building your own.

A 3.2GHz Core 2 Duo, 2 GB Ram and 2 x 500GB Sata Drives along with the graphics card depending on whether you want to play games

Jun 27, 2007 at 07:10 PM

nathanlake
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p.1 #20 · Build the perfect computer...

The earlier post from Jason Anderson hits the highlights, but I would take it one step further. If you can get used to the idea, then I strongly suggest you consider building yourself. The upside, that very few people mention, is an understanding of the technology that only comes from doing it yourself. And, it is not difficult at all. Unlike cameras, most computer manufacturers adhere to standard plugs, cables, etc. You can build one in less than a weekend.

In fact...here are the steps...

1. You need to buy the following

Case (at least room for 4 harddrives + CD/DVD drive) - ATX form factor. Most full size computer cases are ATX, but check the box. Also make sure you have USB plugs on the front of the case. Very useful.

ATX Powersupply (at least 700watts)

Motherboard/CPU/RAM - These three items, while usually purchased separately, must be compatible with each other. There are a number of different combinations and they don't all work together. I am partial to ASUS motherboards and AMD processors. I suggest using their newer AM2 slot processors. This means the motherboard must have the right plug for the AM2 typeprocessor. RAM in the new motherboards would be of the DDR2 variety. The CPU and RAM come in various speeds. The faster the better, but the faster ones are expensive. You need at least 2Gb or RAM, but I suggest you consider 6-8 Gb (See next item)

Operating System - When you build your own computer, you need to buy the OS. Most places that sell components also sell a version of the OS called "OEM". This means you must buy the parts in order to qualify for the OEM special pricing. I suggest using a 64-bit OS (such as WinXP64 or Vista. If you buy Vista you get the 64-bit version automatically in the Ultimate version. I am not sure about the other version. WinXP 64 will probably meet your needs. The 64 bit version allows the use of RAM in excess of 2Gb. I run PS CS2 on a WinXP64 machine with 8Gb of RAM....it flies.

Video Card - As has been said a million times...you don't need the biggest and baddest card for still images. If you want to play video games, plan on spending $400+ for the best. If not, then buy a good video card with at least 128Mb of memory and dual DVI/HDMI outputs. Should run you about $150.

Sound Card - Optional and may be include on the motherboard that you buy. Most ASUS motherboards have audio cards built in. Don't forget speakers if you want sound.

Harddrives - Suggest using all SATA drives. Suggest at lest 2 x 200GB drives. Install applications on one and use the other for data and as the scratch disk for PS.

Monitor - Suggest a monitor with either a DVI or HDMI input (must match your video card). This is a digital input and will give you better color and reliability. There are lots of cheap ones...don't buy cheap. I suggest LCD and I suggest you buy two if you have the room to use two monitors simultaneously.

DVD burner - Buy a good, fast one. If you are really wanting to go all the way, get HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Very expensive, but they store a lot. Some have built in card readers.

Card reader - Get one that installs into the case rather than plugs into a USB plug. Must nicer, but not portable.

Keyboard, mouse - Gotta have em. Consider going wireless.

2. Take all this stuff and sit down. Read the book that comes with the motherboard. It will tell you just about everything you need to know to build the thing. Most of the pieces are plug and play. If the cable fits in the socket, then you probably have the right cable and the right socket. After building a few, I can put one together from scratch in 2-3 hours. Loading all the software after it is build is the really painful part, but it is only time.

Jun 28, 2007 at 07:39 PM

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