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Archive 2007 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Tentacle
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p.5 #1 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

kisielk wrote:
I think that speculation is pretty baseless and doesn't make a lot of sense considering that Canon is continuing investing in producing EF-S lenses. More 1.6x crop bodies means more potential EF-S lens buyers. There's no way Canon would pass up the chance for that in the gap between their pro and low end body.

Remember that in the not too distant past people were predicting the demise of the EF mount (

), well, seeing as the new 16-35 was just released I think that's a far cry too.

Judging by the features of the MkIII and the reaction, it seems Canon is pretty well in tune with the needs of their customers. I have no doubt that they'll release a viable 30D replacement this year.

The 30D successor dropping EF-S compatibility isn't baseless. Canon still hasn't renounced its commitment to full frame, by words of Brian Worley, dSLR product manager for Canon Europe. Of course, it may very well take untill the 50D before EF-S is dropped, but so far it looks like Canon still intends to move to full frame except for entry level.

Feb 24, 2007 at 04:13 PM

Atlasman2
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p.5 #2 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Tentacle wrote:
Hey, this is just me in Wild Speculation Mode™, but what would happen if Canon takes the 1D Mk III sensor design, simplifies it to a 4-channel sensor (rather than an 8-sensor one), and drops one of the DIGIC III chips... And then think 40D.

Wouldn't that be nice? Canon, being as market savvy as it is, will likely tone it down some, just like the xxxD series is less featured than the xxD series. So maybe no live preview. Maybe no ISO50. Definately not 10 fps, but 5. Would make for a nice camera, right?

Again, this is my mind wandering around. Nothing solid to go on, just some "would be really nice" musing...

I think a single DIGIC III for Canon's top-of-the-line 1.6 format is a given. The question is what else will trickle down from the 1DM3? Live Preview (or does that require dual DIGIC III?) I think burst rate will remain at 5. Possibly we'll get the new sensor.

I've got a feeling that I'm going to be spending a whole lot of cash this year.

I think that

Feb 24, 2007 at 04:13 PM

Atlasman2
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p.5 #3 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Tentacle wrote:
kisielk wrote:
I think that speculation is pretty baseless and doesn't make a lot of sense considering that Canon is continuing investing in producing EF-S lenses. More 1.6x crop bodies means more potential EF-S lens buyers. There's no way Canon would pass up the chance for that in the gap between their pro and low end body.

Remember that in the not too distant past people were predicting the demise of the EF mount (

Feb 24, 2007 at 04:23 PM

ward1066
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p.5 #4 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Feb 24, 2007 at 04:38 PM

ward1066
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p.5 #5 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

yoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoy

Feb 24, 2007 at 04:38 PM

Tentacle
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p.5 #6 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Atlasman2 wrote:

[...]

I fail to see any logic in dropping the EF-S line. Smaller means greater portability, and as sensor technology improves, the 1.6 crop will become even more compelling. I just hope that Canon ups the build quality to "L" standards on the EF-S line.

EF-S will not be dropped. It will, eventually, be relegated to entry level. IF Canon sticks to its commitment to full frame. Since the introduction of EF-S, along with the 300D in august 2003, we've seen 6 EF-S lenses, 3 of them kit-lenses. Even the most expensive EF-S, the very nice 17-55/2.8IS, is cheaper than a 135L, so it's not that massive amounts of glass-investments will go down the drain.

And if you want to know why Canon thinks full frame is so much better, then google for Canon Full Frame White Paper and read it, while keeping in mind that it's part fact, and part PR.

Feb 24, 2007 at 04:42 PM

BabiesNBellies
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p.5 #7 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

J_ph wrote:
does the new WFT-E2 support any other cameras.... 5D?
any pricing or other specs?

I haven't had much luck on finding much info on this either but think it would be nice to have for the 5D

Anyone know more about this

Edited by BabiesNBellies on Feb 24, 2007 at 09:31 AM GMT

Feb 24, 2007 at 04:46 PM

Atlasman2
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p.5 #8 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Tentacle wrote:
Atlasman2 wrote:

[...]

I fail to see any logic in dropping the EF-S line. Smaller means greater portability, and as sensor technology improves, the 1.6 crop will become even more compelling. I just hope that Canon ups the build quality to "L" standards on the EF-S line.

EF-S will not be dropped. It will, eventually, be relegated to entry level. IF Canon sticks to its commitment to full frame. Since the introduction of EF-S, along with the 300D in august 2003, we've seen 6 EF-S lenses, 3 of them kit-lenses. Even the most expensive EF-S, the very nice 17-55/2.8IS, is cheaper than a 135L, so it's not that massive amounts of glass-investments will go down the drain.

And if you want to know why Canon thinks full frame is so much better, then google for Canon Full Frame White Paper and read it, while keeping in mind that it's part fact, and part PR.

In my neck of the woods, the 17-55 is $1400 and the 135L is $1100—that Canon has made available the 17-55 tells me that their plan is to bolster the line-up with high end type glass.

Regarding the FF, I own the 5D and have 1st hand experience with the merits of this format. As a professional photographer, I use, and continue to use both the 1.6 and FF formats—as the shooting conditions require.

Just as in my film days, I used MF and 35mm as required, today, digital enables FF (5D) has replaced my MF equipment (at least for the work I do).

I hope Canon continues development of the 'S" line with other high end glass.

Prior to having FF, I thought that 1.6 would eventually fade into history, I don't see this now.

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:08 PM

danmitchell
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p.5 #9 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

I fail to see any logic in dropping the EF-S line. Smaller means greater portability, and as sensor technology improves, the 1.6 crop will become even more compelling. I just hope that Canon ups the build quality to "L" standards on the EF-S line.

I doubt that the EF-S line is going to be dropped any time soon. However, I also doubt at least as much that Canon is going to produce EF-S lenses sporting the "L" designation or, for that matter, new high quality EF-S lenses.

Regarding the existence of the quite high quality (and quite high price) 17-55mm f/2.8 IS EF-S lens... it makes sense for Canon to produce a high quality EF-S lens in that range (and, arguably this also applies to the 10-22mm wide EF-S) since that is the range that is otherwise not well covered by existing EF lenses. Since there are people using the crop sensor bodies for serious photography, without these lenses there would not be high quality lenses for these photographers covering these important focal length and feature ranges.

However, it seems inconceivable that Canon would produce high quality EF-S lenses in ranges that are already quite well covered by longer L zooms and primes (and even excellent non-L primes). For example, given the choice between some imaginary really high quality EF-S 35mm prime and the existing EF 35mm primes, I would guess that so few would choose the EF-S version that it would be a loss for Canon.

Bottom line, I doubt we'll see much more in the way of excellent EF-S lenses beyond the 17-55 and the 10-22.

Dan

Edited by danmitchell on Feb 24, 2007 at 09:25 AM GMT

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:15 PM

mfurman
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p.5 #10 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

In my neck of the woods, the 17-55 is $1400 and the 135L is $1100

Even in Canada, you can get lower prices but

B&H: 17-55 $925
135 $899

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:15 PM

Koivulehto
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p.5 #11 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

BabiesNBellies wrote:
J_ph wrote:
does the new WFT-E2 support any other cameras.... 5D?
any pricing or other specs?

I haven't had much luck on finding much info on this either but think it would be nice to have for the 5D

Anyone know more about this

The new WFT-E2 connects to the 1D3 body with a special 15 pin round connector, which also feeds the battery power from 1D3. How could you connect the new WFT to any existing body which is missing that connector?

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:17 PM

Hrow
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p.5 #12 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Koivulehto wrote:
BabiesNBellies wrote:
J_ph wrote:
does the new WFT-E2 support any other cameras.... 5D?
any pricing or other specs?

I haven't had much luck on finding much info on this either but think it would be nice to have for the 5D

Anyone know more about this

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:25 PM

RJJR
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p.5 #13 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

I starting to wonder about the often mentioned Canon dropping the 1.3x sensor leaving only FF and 1.6x sensors remaining in thier DSLRs. If the release of the 1D3 is any kind of a sign wouldn't it be that 1.3x probably isn't going anywhere for a while?

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:25 PM

nads
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p.5 #14 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

RJJR wrote:
I starting to wonder about the often mentioned Canon dropping the 1.3x sensor leaving only FF and 1.6x sensors remaining in thier DSLRs. If the release of the 1D3 is any kind of a sign wouldn't it be that 1.3x probably isn't going anywhere for a while?
At least not until the 1DIIII is released

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:30 PM

Koivulehto
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p.5 #15 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

nads wrote:
RJJR wrote:
I starting to wonder about the often mentioned Canon dropping the 1.3x sensor leaving only FF and 1.6x sensors remaining in thier DSLRs. If the release of the 1D3 is any kind of a sign wouldn't it be that 1.3x probably isn't going anywhere for a while?

At least not until the 1DIIII is released

If the successor of 1DIIII has full digital video capability, then Canon's naming policy finally makes sense: 1DV

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:52 PM

Atlasman2
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p.5 #16 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

danmitchell wrote:
I fail to see any logic in dropping the EF-S line. Smaller means greater portability, and as sensor technology improves, the 1.6 crop will become even more compelling. I just hope that Canon ups the build quality to "L" standards on the EF-S line.

I doubt that the EF-S line is going to be dropped any time soon. However, I also doubt at least as much that Canon is going to produce EF-S lenses sporting the "L" designation or, for that matter, new high quality EF-S lenses.

Regarding the existence of the quite high quality (and quite high price) 17-55mm f/2.8 IS EF-S lens... it makes sense for Canon to produce a high quality EF-S lens in that range (and, arguably this also applies to the 10-22mm wide EF-S) since that is the range that is otherwise not well covered by existing EF lenses. Since there are people using the crop sensor bodies for serious photography, without these lenses there would not be high quality lenses for these photographers covering these important focal length and feature ranges.

However, it seems inconceivable that Canon would produce high quality EF-S lenses in ranges that are already quite well covered by longer L zooms and primes (and even excellent non-L primes). For example, given the choice between some imaginary really high quality EF-S 35mm prime and the existing EF 35mm primes, I would guess that so few would choose the EF-S version that it would be a loss for Canon.

Bottom line, I doubt we'll see much more in the way of excellent EF-S lenses beyond the 17-55 and the 10-22.

Dan

Edited by danmitchell on Feb 24, 2007 at 09:25 AM GMT
You may be right Dan, in the short term, but I still believe, over time, portability and compactness will bring high end 'S' line lenses.

Feb 24, 2007 at 07:20 PM

Tentacle
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p.5 #17 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

The "S" in EF-S stands for Short Backfocus. The primary reason of being is the fact that EF-S allows a deeper penetration of the rear element into the camera. That's only useful for short focal lengths, hence the total lack of EF-S telezooms.

If I look at the EF-S line-up, it's not that the portability and compactness leap out. If the designation itself is anything to go by, then Canon isn't in it primarily for these purposes, but to enable certain focal lengths on crop, just like Dan mentioned.

Oh well ... The EF-S argument against a non-APS-C sensor for the 40D has been coined before. If I look at the existing EF-S line-up, I can only say that I'm not convinced that the mere existence of EF-S is somehow a guarantee that the xxD range will remain APS-C. There is too much to be gained in image quality by going to a bigger sensor area to let it be railroaded by EF-S.

But that's just my idea/estimation/instinct/guess.

Feb 24, 2007 at 07:55 PM

RJJR
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p.5 #18 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Tentacle wrote:

There is too much to be gained in image quality by going to a bigger sensor area to let it be railroaded by EF-S.

Especially in the corners and edges.

I'd crop to the sweet spot in FF anyway just like I always do with 35mm film so I wouldn't mind an APS-C xxD with some of the 1D3 features.

Feb 24, 2007 at 09:39 PM

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p.5 #19 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Atlasman wrote:

danmitchell wrote:
I fail to see any logic in dropping the EF-S line. Smaller means greater portability, and as sensor technology improves, the 1.6 crop will become even more compelling. I just hope that Canon ups the build quality to "L" standards on the EF-S line.

I did not write that. Need to be careful with the quotes, no?

Dan

Feb 24, 2007 at 11:07 PM

Philippe Arnez
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p.5 #20 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

nads wrote:
At least not until the 1DIIII is released

Please, I'm not fond of Canon's naming system either, but that would definitely not be called 1D Mark IIII but rather 1D Mark IV

Feb 24, 2007 at 11:39 PM

Greg Pavlov
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p.5 #21 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Tentacle wrote:
...........
Oh well ... The EF-S argument against a non-APS-C sensor for the 40D has been coined before. If I look at the existing EF-S line-up, I can only say that I'm not convinced that the mere existence of EF-S is somehow a guarantee that the xxD range will remain APS-C. There is too much to be gained in image quality by going to a bigger sensor area to let it be railroaded by EF-S.
But that's just my idea/estimation/instinct/guess.

You may be right. But then there is the argument that given that cameras such as
the XTi provide a useful low end (more in terms of cost than IQ) for various reasons, there may well be much to be financially gained by Canon in offering an "upper end"
to the APS-C range in the same way that there are differentiations within marques in
other industries. While the 30D may not be the most popular DSLR in the Canon
lineup, does anyone think that Canon is losing money on it ?

Feb 24, 2007 at 11:41 PM

Paul Schmidt
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p.5 #22 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

nads wrote:
RJJR wrote:
I starting to wonder about the often mentioned Canon dropping the 1.3x sensor leaving only FF and 1.6x sensors remaining in thier DSLRs. If the release of the 1D3 is any kind of a sign wouldn't it be that 1.3x probably isn't going anywhere for a while?
At least not until the 1DIIII is released

Uh, that really should be the 1DiV, as 4 in roman numerals is IV.... Although I expect that Canon will move to another naming scheme, with the next set of cameras, the 1D space is getting too crowded, and the designations getting to complex.

Feb 25, 2007 at 01:54 AM

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p.5 #23 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Janez Nori wrote:
So what do you think about 7-8th March announcements? I'm pretty sure 1Ds mkIII is not going to be announced as well as 6D, because it would hurt the 1Ds mkII sales if Canon intorduced it before mkIII (but I still hope for 5D mkII, with same sensor, but antidust, weather sealing, DIGIC III and some minor improvements). 40D perhaps...

I expect Canon will announce the new 1Ds as soon as they can determine a release date. If anyone was likely to delay purchasing a 1DsMk11 before, they certainly will now, if they can. The new features of the 1D Mk III bode a significant suite of upgrades for the 1Ds Mk III as well...and perhaps even a price not much higher than the current street price of the 1Ds Mk II.

I seriously doubt the 1Ds Mk II is even still in production and Canon Inc probably moved every one out of its shipping channels long ago, so Canon Inc can't make a dime more on it.

Feb 25, 2007 at 02:21 AM

Rich Swanner
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p.5 #24 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

About the 30D. It is like a mini 5D, it has picture-style and the bigger back screen,faster dials and access to faster shooting. it has spot meter and alot of little improvements to the 20D . This was a camera that was hearld when introduced(20D) and it shoots(30D) really fast and feels like a camera should. I always feel that. I would like the 5D, but it does sacrifice alot of zoom and with me shooting nature and sports it is a great deal as well as useful camera for my needs. It is a 1/2 of the price of the 5D and is not FF, that is about it. What I don't see is the photographers that are crying over the 8 vs 10 mgs and the sensor cleaner are not mentioning that the XTI is a toy. The feel and overall usefullness of the 30D never comes up as a benefit as if it is no good. The 40D would be great . but the improvements will be like better shocks on a car. They will not magically make a person a better photographer getting this or that improvement, as they find that maybe what was lacking as they say is not in their stars , but in themselves...Rich

Feb 25, 2007 at 03:33 AM

D. von Briesen
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p.5 #25 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

I don't know about you guys, but I'm profoundly disappointed in Canon's latest announcement of new products pre-PMA.

Let me explain:

I'm pleased as punch for all the sports and wildlife shooters, photojournalists worldwide who must be lining up for the extraordinary new 1D M III! The list of really significant upgrades is impressive: 14 bit processing (12K more tonal gradations!!); a 50% decrease in shadow noise; 10 fps; two Digic 3 processors; expanded ISO; increased DR; the list goes on.

Oh, & I almost forgot: dust control, jeez, finally dust control; i've just about had it with the cloning and healing brushes!! Changing many lenses in the dusty field means despite all efforts to regularly remove the dreaded bunnies, they always return. How great will it be to slay that irritating and time-consuming dragon!?

As well, finally the release of a hopefully seriously upgraded wide angle zoom to address the long-acknowledged problem of edge and corner softness, especially for FF bodies.

What all this portends for the 1Ds MIII when it finally does come out is just incredible!! All the 1D upgrades plus even more & the new 16-35 is pointing to some serious improvement in IQ.. As a fine arts landscape photographer I constantly compete with medium and large format film shooters and I've been anxiously awaiting Canon's 1Ds upgrade.

And that's the problem and thus the disapointment: HOW MUCH LONGER DO I HAVE TO WAIT!!!

?? Nothing at Photokina, 2006; nothing now for PMA; and no real major shows for the rest of the year, at least none that Canon has any history of making major product announcements. Two major shows, rumors galore, daily monitoring of Keith's Northlight website, huge hopes built up only to be dashed!!

One can only hope that for all the important Canon anniversaries this year it just has to mean they'll be announcing this long-awaited and overdue upgrade sometime this year.

But still, it means that with product lag after the eventual announcement and the inevitable rush to upgrade that should come from shooters eager to upgrade their now three year old 1Ds: man, it could be well into 2008 before I can get my hands on a new one.

Anyone else out there feeling the pain??

Edited by D. von Briesen on Feb 25, 2007 at 12:20 PM GMT

Feb 25, 2007 at 06:42 AM


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