•Hands-On• Leica M8

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Archive 2006 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

woodyspedden
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p.6 #1 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

t_streng wrote:
carstenw wrote:
Well, I had to send my M8+50Lux ASPH back for focusing adjustments. Although the second copy of the lens was better than the first, it could still not focus on infinity, so there is likely some adjustment needed in the camera. It will take 2-3 weeks, I was told. Hopefully it will take less, and hopefully Leica will take the opportunity to do something about the magenta images.

kind of frustrating, isnt it.
I had ordered a 24asph whoch arrived last week. The tolerances between sunshade and lens were so bad (the shade would go on and off the lens very hard) that we sent the lens back to Leica. I now wait for another 24mm-lens.
Also a 35/1.4asph which I had bought used last year and a 28/2.0asph which I bought last year (mint with gurantee) had to be sent in when I got them for calibrating the focus.
not that great QA.
Well, once the stuff works its really a joy to use.

Anyone but me having problems with the hotshoe on the M8. It takes superhuman force to mount my SF24D because the shoe is so tight! Hard to believe that Leica couldn't get a shoe that fits. We have only had hotshoes now for about 50 years. Other than that, the image files look really good. No magenta stuff yet.

woody

So much about quality control.

Nov 08, 2006 at 02:21 PM

t_streng
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p.6 #2 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Woody, can you comment of the Nikon/d2x vs Canon/1dsII (you also own a 5d?) ?

I am wondering if I should get rid of one system - Nikon or Canon;
I have much more lenses for Nikon, but the 5d+24-105 size and flexibility fits my needs a little better than the d2x.

Any comments?

Nov 08, 2006 at 02:48 PM

Marco
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p.6 #3 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Mine has just arrived at my dealer... black... gonna drive 40 miles now... drooling

...
Hope it won't show so much nasty magenta strikes, but even if it's the case I'm confident Leica will solve the issue.

Cheers

Nov 08, 2006 at 04:27 PM

Andi Dietrich
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p.6 #4 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Tom
Keep the 5D and 24-105. 5D low noise and IS lens gives you the best alternative to the M.

Nov 08, 2006 at 05:08 PM

jaapv
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p.6 #5 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Changed my avatar to fireworks to celebrate the arrival of M8 # 1100...

Nov 08, 2006 at 06:48 PM

carstenw
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p.6 #6 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Yay! Impressions, pictures, of and by?

Nov 08, 2006 at 07:54 PM

giulioz
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p.6 #7 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Marco I sent you a PM.

Thanks, Giulio

Nov 08, 2006 at 09:49 PM

Marco
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p.6 #8 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

First impressions after two hours:

- While it is very well built, the camera feels slightly more "cheap" than M7 or MP.
- Viewfinder is amazing, much better than that of the R-D1.
- Focussing is fast and very precise, much more than the R-D1's, I could 'almost' nail the focus at the first try with the 135 Apo near subject w/out magnifier. It only very slightly backfocusses and so far it seems rather easy to compensate.
- Contrary to many other users I really like the shutter button, with a distinct step for exposure locking.
- Shutter noise is of a lower pitch than that of the R-D1 but overall it's not a very silent camera...

I can't still comment on image quality, giving I only shot some night scenes on the way at home, so no low ISOs high-res images.

But I I could replicate the streaks with night shots, sometimes even with a vertical line which seems to "divide" the framing 60/40%...

This is an example:

1250 ISO - Elmarit 24 asph (not coded)

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Quite bad indeed...

Also the white balance is definitely off, I need to use tungsten to have a good balance to start with for interiors in available light.
I use DNG anyway, ok, but there's definitely a color profile issue in CaptureOne.
I prefer to use the Leica R9 profile and add saturation, but clearly they need to work on a better M8 profile as it's rather difficult to nail the correct colors.

P.S. Framing the 135 Apo is not very difficult even without an external viewfinder.
I use as a reference the area included between the right and upper framelines for 90mm and the bottom and left sides of the rangefinder.

P.P.S. The camera's LCD shows a much more noisy image than it is in reality. At first, judging only from LCD I thought "damn... this camera at 640 ISO is more noisy than my cheap 400D at 1600 ISO..."
When viewed on monitor though noise is quite fine up to 1250 ISO (effective 1600 ISO as per Sean's review).

Nov 08, 2006 at 10:24 PM

woodyspedden
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p.6 #9 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

t_streng wrote:
Woody, can you comment of the Nikon/d2x vs Canon/1dsII (you also own a 5d?) ?

I am wondering if I should get rid of one system - Nikon or Canon;
I have much more lenses for Nikon, but the 5d+24-105 size and flexibility fits my needs a little better than the d2x.

Any comments?

tom

I am keeping the 1DsMkII because with adapters it handles all my Zeiss Glass, Nikon Glass, Leica glass and of course Canon although except for the 24-105 walkaround autofocus lens which is my only Canon product ( and probably the last except someday perhaps a 400 or 500mm long lens.) So on major shoots this is my full backup body although of course I am limited to stop down metering etc.

I love the D2X and some of the Nikon glass but right now it occupies a place primarily in my closet. I just don't pull it out anymore except for action and kids shots where autofocus is really needed. Sad but true. Lots of money tied up in that system and I will probably sell all of it soon. If I were able to sell the system at 1/2 price I could free up some needed cash and still have enough to perhaps get one more autofocus canon zoom,e.g. 20-200 2.8.

Woody

Nov 08, 2006 at 10:38 PM

gogopix
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p.6 #10 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

where is this streak?

Can't see it.

Nov 08, 2006 at 11:23 PM

DaveEP
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p.6 #11 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

gogopix wrote:
where is this streak?

Can't see it.

There is a HORIZONTAL streak going to the right from the top (left side) light.

There is a VERTICAL streak about 60% of the way across the shot....

For any one who can't see these (even with the arrows), maybe your monitor needs re-calibrating

Edited by DaveEP on Nov 09, 2006 at 12:23 AM GMT

Nov 08, 2006 at 11:46 PM

zaknat
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p.6 #12 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Marco,
Don't know which version of Capture One you are using but I just downloaded the latest which has improved color profiles for the M8.

David

Nov 09, 2006 at 12:21 AM

zaknat
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p.6 #13 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Curious whether M8 shooters are shooting RAW only or RAW plus jpeg. If the latter, what's the advantage

David

Nov 09, 2006 at 12:22 AM

johnastovall
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p.6 #14 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

gogopix wrote:
where is this streak?

Can't see it.

Save it to the desktop and then zoom it up. the center band is very notable but I don't think it would show up in a print at all.

Nov 09, 2006 at 12:28 AM

braindeadmac
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p.6 #15 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

johnastovall wrote:
gogopix wrote:
where is this streak?

Can't see it.

Save it to the desktop and then zoom it up. the center band is very notable but I don't think it would show up in a print at all.

I'm pretty sure it would show up on my printers (Epson 4800 and 7800). Having been on the bleeding edge for a couple of years, I'm going to sit out the M8 for a few months and let the dust settle and wait for a few firmware upgrades. I'll probably regret it because I'm sure Leica will raise the price every six months.

Nov 09, 2006 at 12:58 AM

t_streng
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p.6 #16 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Woody,
tis about the same I feel:
Using the d2x is a joy, the fast AF, the fast shutter , the ergonomics. Images are good but not better than the 5d.
I like the d2x overall better than the 5d but the 5d-size and weight advantage and the flexibility of the 24-105 make me use the 5 d more than the d2x.
The Canon 24-105 (which I use as a 28-105 because of vignetting at 24mm) is more flexible than the Nikon 17-55 because its a little longer reach, which I sometimes can use.
Thats hard. I sol a 1d+ mayn Canon lenses some years ago when I jumped on Nikon (like the d2h/x size better than the 1d and the user interface).
Now I have many Nikon lenses sitting here and should sell again? on the other side for the money I could add 2 or 3 nice lenses for the 5d. (maybe a 24 or 35prime, a 85 prime, the 135/2.0 beloved lens, and a 300 or 400mm lens)
Also as you said I can use some of my Leica lenses on the 5d (however I dont do this much because if I shoot Leica lenses and MF I usually take the R9+DMR.)
sorry everybody for the non-M8-related post

Nov 09, 2006 at 07:36 AM

Marco
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p.6 #17 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

zaknat wrote:
Marco,
Don't know which version of Capture One you are using but I just downloaded the latest which has improved color profiles for the M8.

David, I'm using the latest 3.7.6, C1 Pro.

Nov 09, 2006 at 08:51 AM

Marco
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p.6 #18 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

I converted the image in B&W with some curves adjustments to better represent the actual look of the scene.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

The streaks are "almost" gone.
You can still see them, but maybe they don't show up in print (didn't try though).
Other similar images but without many street lights didn't show any horizontal or vertical streaks, although shot at even longer shutter speed, so I assume it is not banding but a kind of sensor blooming with strange reading response, if that makes any sense..

Maybe it could be adressed via firmware, at least I hope...

Nov 09, 2006 at 10:52 AM

petermcwerner
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p.6 #19 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

These shutters were not black!

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M8, Cooke Kinetal 50mm/1.8/T2.0 @ 2.0 - RAW + C1

This image is copyrighted by the owner

100% crop

Edited by petermcwerner on Nov 09, 2006 at 04:50 PM GMT

Nov 09, 2006 at 03:42 PM

carstenw
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p.6 #20 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

This sweater is normally very black:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Nov 09, 2006 at 03:46 PM

Andi Dietrich
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p.6 #21 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

carstenw wrote:
This sweater is normally very black:
g

Carsten, you are kidding!?

Nov 09, 2006 at 04:19 PM

AGeoJO
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p.6 #22 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

carstenw wrote:
This sweater is normally very black:

I can handle the noise, I can tolerate some banding at high ISO settings but this is too much. Filter? Why would I have to worry about that after spending almost $4,800 for a camera.... Mine is going back

with the notion that I will get another one

after and only after they have fixed these issues. In the meantime, I will use my R-D1 to get my RF fixes

Nov 09, 2006 at 04:35 PM

carstenw
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p.6 #23 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Andi, that is no joke :( The chair is also black, and has a lesser magenta-cast. I went down to the store and we did a test on their demo camera too. Set white balance manually, shoot my sweater next to the window. Same strong magenta. Apparently this is not uncommon for digital cameras (D2H, and some other Nikons also had it, as well as some other cameras which I forget; there was even a thread on photo.net about the R-D1 having the same problem in some lighting situations), although the M8 has it stronger. I have ordered an IR filter to fix it. I don't normally use filters, but here I will, until Leica finds a solution. They are apparently working on something. Their newsletter will make a statement, I have heard.

Nov 09, 2006 at 04:42 PM

Andi Dietrich
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p.6 #24 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

So what happens if you put on a purple sweater? ;-)

If this happend with other CCD cameras this might be a quality problem with Kodak sensors? Or rather assembly and QC?

Nov 09, 2006 at 05:06 PM

rgallie
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p.6 #25 · •Hands-On• Leica M8

Since this problem has occurred with some other cameras and manufacturers, I wonder why Leica could not avoid it.

Ideally you would want to allow all visible light and block all infrared light. But filters that I have seen do not have a very sharp cutoff - if you want to eliminate all infrared light you have to filter part of the visible light as well. I imagine this affects the quality of the image, particularly the reds.

Does anyone know the design choices and tradeoffs? That may help explain why this particular choice was made.

It does seem that Leica is having to solve problems that have been previously solved by other manufacturers. Almost everything in photography is a tradeoff.

Rodney

Nov 09, 2006 at 06:34 PM


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