•Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

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Archive 2006 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

tkjaer
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p.65 #1 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

Hi Gary,

ghuff wrote:
I don't know how long Canon can continue to test and / or ignore the issue with it seeming to be so widespread. Hopefully they will announce a direction soon.

Hopefully. I wrote the dealer and asked them if they had heard anything from Canon. If not, the lens is going back their way.

Just curious, what is your date code and first 3 digits of your serial #?

Here's the date and serial; UV0101 741

Feb 21, 2007 at 02:39 PM

CMOS
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p.65 #2 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

Canon is really getting themselves into a public relations nightmare.
In recent memory, the 70-300 had a droopy barrel in portrait mode, the 24-105 had flare problems and now the 50 has major backfocusing.

All three of these issues are probably not manufacturing defects. Rather these are design problems.

This is a lot to screw up! I think that Canon could lose customers to Nikon over this. I don't see people selling their Canon kits because of this, but when buying new, you might think twice about Canon.

.

Feb 21, 2007 at 03:08 PM

cactusclay
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p.65 #3 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

CMOS wrote:
Canon is really getting themselves into a public relations nightmare.
In recent memory, the 70-300 had a droopy barrel in portrait mode, the 24-105 had flare problems and now the 50 has major backfocusing.

All three of these issues are probably not manufacturing defects. Rather these are design problems.

This is a lot to screw up! I think that Canon could lose customers to Nikon over this. I don't see people selling their Canon kits because of this, but when buying new, you might think twice about Canon.

.

It really makes you wonder why they just keep shipping out the new 50L, with all the documented problems. Sounds to me like poor business practice in the realm of public relations. If I was the CEO of Canon, I would have been all over this this thing, from the start. Maybe we should have a mass exodus to Nikon or Leica or something and let Canon play with their own lenses, till the lights go out.

Feb 21, 2007 at 04:46 PM

CMOS
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p.65 #4 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

cactusclay wrote:
It really makes you wonder why they just keep shipping out the new 50L, with all the documented problems. Sounds to me like poor business practice in the realm of public relations.

Exactly. A few weeks ago, the 50L was out of stock at all the major retailers. At that point, I was calling it that Canon was holding off on new shipments while they sorted out this mess. Nope. Back in stock everywhere now.

This type of crummy behavior by Canon could impact initial sales rates going forward. Canon is probably going to introduce some new lenses at PMA 2007 and people are going to hold off for a while to see if it works.

Edited by CMOS on Feb 21, 2007 at 12:47 PM GMT

Feb 21, 2007 at 04:59 PM

ward1066
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p.65 #5 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

I think since they are distributing lenses it is more of a firmware issue. If it was a design problem they would stop. It wouldn't make any sense to keep producing lenses if you knew you would have to recall them. It also wouldn't make sense to have a recall right before PMA, maybe they are only releasing a slow trickle of lenses and waiting until later this summer to say anything? All I know is I love my 50 and even if there is a minor niggle with the lens, Canon will make it right.

Feb 21, 2007 at 05:21 PM

CMOS
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p.65 #6 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

ward1066 wrote:
I think since they are distributing lenses it is more of a firmware issue. If it was a design problem they would stop.

I missed part of the technical discussion in the thread above, but I don't see how this could be a firmware issue. The lens is focused properly at f/1.2. Stopping down with aperture blades causes it to backfocus. What can be changed in firmware?

Either way, all these lenses would have to be sent back to Canon for the firmware/mechanical update.

Remember the surprise delay in availability of the lens? My guess is that there was some other problem with the lens that cropped up shortly before shipping. So they delayed shipping to fix that problem by making some other change in the design. But they didn't have time to test out that fix. Unfortunately, that late fix caused this problem we are seeing now.
Oops.

Feb 21, 2007 at 06:35 PM

Koivulehto
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p.65 #7 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

As described in this thread, the backfocus only happens when autofocusing, and at least in the 1DII cameras, it does it very consistently vs. aperture setting. This sounds like something which a firmware change can fix, e.g. by adding a look-up table for each aperture in the firmware, and making the focusing algorithm to correct the original focus calculations by a value fetched from a look-up table.

Feb 21, 2007 at 07:50 PM

CMOS
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p.65 #8 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

Koivulehto wrote:
As described in this thread, the backfocus only happens when autofocusing, and at least in the 1DII cameras, it does it very consistently vs. aperture setting. This sounds like something which a firmware change can fix, e.g. by adding a look-up table for each aperture in the firmware, and making the focusing algorithm to correct the original focus calculations by a value fetched from a look-up table.

If the firmware fix works by adjusting a lookup table so that your selected aperture will be in focus properly, what happens when you look through the viewfinder at f/1.2 (the way it usually works unless DOF is depressed)? Your subject would be out of focus!

A firmware fix would render the lens nearly impossible to use. You would see the (for example) right eye out of focus in the viewfinder at f/1.2 but you would have to know that the right eye will be in focus in the photo when the lens stops down to f/4 to actually take the photo. You'd have to chimp every shot!

Am I missing something here about how the firmware fix would work?

Feb 21, 2007 at 08:12 PM

Koivulehto
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p.65 #9 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

CMOS: I don't know how precisely you are able to see through the viewfinder, but I know I don't even try to look that precisely when I am using AF. I point the AF spot where I want to and expect the AF to do its job. The MF is another business, since there I am in full control.

I would expect the firmware fix to compensate the backfocus using the aperture specific table and measured distance seen by the selected AF spot. If the lens is not able to give accurate enough distance info to the camera body, then this principle won't work. By all means, there might be other flaws as well in this principle.

Feb 21, 2007 at 08:37 PM

Roy Pertchik
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p.65 #10 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

Yes, I think your missing the point. The firmware would have the lens focus properly at 1.2 and then focus properly at 1.4, 1.8, 2.0, 2.8, 4.0, etc. and every where in between. After all, that's what it does on every lens... there is always a look up table to which the camera refers to calculate how far to spin the focus motor to achieve focus from wherever it's starting. Or, maybe I'm missing your point...?

Feb 22, 2007 at 12:52 AM

ward1066
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p.65 #11 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

I think a lot of people have noticed very slight backfocusing at 1.2 though. At least mine doesn't seem spot on.

Feb 22, 2007 at 01:17 AM

hahr
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p.65 #12 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

all three of mine backfocused at f/1.2, leading to backfocus at any aperture thereafter. manual focus at any distance and any aperture was dead-on.

the 50L is mechanically perfect. it's the firmware that needs help.

-erik

Feb 22, 2007 at 01:24 AM

Roy Pertchik
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p.65 #13 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

Hmmmm, there are aperture positions, and lens positions, with overtravel available in the lens movement on both ends... a look-up table pairs up the correct lens positions and aperture positions. Seems it should work, to me.

Feb 22, 2007 at 01:25 AM

ghuff
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p.65 #14 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

flatdraft wrote:
the 50L is mechanically perfect. it's the firmware that needs help.

Yep... agreed...but I think Canon's people need help in admitting they have an issue. I still stand by Canon on this, but enough is enough. PMA or no PMA.... the darn lens has issues, and has been on the market for almost 3 months in this condition. What does it take

to get someone to stand up, be a good corporate citizen and admit....we have a problem

?

Even if they don't have an answer yet...they need to acknowledge the issue....

OK...I'm cranky tonight.

But this is part of the same discussion I was having in early December with Canon service after seeing multiple copies that were doing the same thing....

Feb 22, 2007 at 01:50 AM

ward1066
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p.65 #15 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

My cat is getting really tired of my testing also

He wants answers also!

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Edited by ward1066 on Feb 21, 2007 at 08:09 PM GMT

Feb 22, 2007 at 02:07 AM

fotografur
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p.65 #16 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

CMOS wrote:
cactusclay wrote:
It really makes you wonder why they just keep shipping out the new 50L, with all the documented problems. Sounds to me like poor business practice in the realm of public relations.

Exactly. A few weeks ago, the 50L was out of stock at all the major retailers. At that point, I was calling it that Canon was holding off on new shipments while they sorted out this mess. Nope. Back in stock everywhere now.

This type of crummy behavior by Canon could impact initial sales rates going forward. Canon is probably going to introduce some new lenses at PMA 2007 and people are going to hold off for a while to see if it works.

Edited by CMOS on Feb 21, 2007 at 12:47 PM GMT

Yep. In stock everywhere..From $1399 and falling fast

From day one of the release I was never a believer of this lens. And that sucks 'cause I wanted one bad :0(

d~

Feb 22, 2007 at 02:07 AM

ghuff
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p.65 #17 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

ward1066 wrote: My cat is getting really tired of my testing also He wants answers also!

OMG....the thread has finally sunk again to the depths of CAT PHOTOS!!!

I preferred Sam's cowdog....but the inquisitive looking B&W cat...ain't half bad...

Feb 22, 2007 at 02:12 AM

lord_malone
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p.65 #18 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

Shiver me timbers!

I got my 50L back from Mike today. Thanks for letting us share our experiment with you all.

Feb 22, 2007 at 03:19 AM

IPSedo
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p.65 #19 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_EOS-1D_Mark_III_White_Paper.pdf

DavidP wrote:
Hot dang! The white paper clarifies what this "AF micro-adjustment" is about.

It's a way the PHOTOGRAPHER can adjust the AF to correct for front and back focusing. No more trips to Canon for this. You can even do this for up to 20 individual lenses!

Nirvana!

I must be dreaming!

So maybe the new 50L's fix is a 1D Mark III? Haha.

-Ron

Feb 22, 2007 at 05:04 AM

ghuff
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p.65 #20 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AF micro adjustment

They musta got a clue!

Yeah!!!!

I'm not sure if it will fix the new 50L....but it'll dang sure go a long way with other lenses in the future...

I'm impressed.

Feb 22, 2007 at 05:16 AM

lord_malone
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p.65 #21 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

My thoughts exactly.

Feb 22, 2007 at 05:17 AM

lord_malone
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p.65 #22 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

My thoughts exactly.

Feb 22, 2007 at 05:17 AM

Roy Pertchik
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p.65 #23 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

Won't fix the 50L... it's an adjustment per lens, across the board, not just in a particular distance range.

So, that's a whit paper for a 1D Mark III... It has an automatic dust repelling and cleaning sensor... It has a live view available for tethered shooters... I just came across that in browsing a minute or two... and this AF micro adjustment...what else? I didn't even realize there was a mark III. Seems this is chock full of news.

Feb 22, 2007 at 11:21 AM

hahr
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p.65 #24 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

RoyPertchi wrote:
Won't fix the 50L... it's an adjustment per lens, across the board, not just in a particular distance range.

it might fix the 50L. the adjustment needed is so slight that i doubt it would affect focusing accuracy at 5' and beyond due to DOF distances. infinity focus happens at 10' so it's not like this lens has a ton of range.

even with this feature, i wouldn't find 50mm to be useful with the new 1.28x 1DIII. that makes it a 64mm and a really weird focal length for me. all i can hope is that this feature finds its way into the upcoming 1DsIII. but, if i pony up the cash for a 1DsIII then i probably won't be getting another 50L for quite a while, making it a non-issue for me.

-erik

Feb 22, 2007 at 04:24 PM

rscheffler
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p.65 #25 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

I don't believe the Mark III micro focus adjustment feature will address the focus shift problem, the one of the gradually increasing shift of an autofocused point as the aperture value is increased (stopped down). That, as some have already mentioned, would need to be addressed with some sort of a firmware update, either for individual camera models or the lens's actual firmware. It likely wouldn't resolve the issue when using MF and not shooting wide open (and not double checking the plane of focus using the DOF preview).

What's there to say the 50 1.2 AF issues can't be fixed in future camera firmware versions? Sure, it may mean releasing firmware for many cameras, or just those that Canon feel would address the majority of users, but it would save the time, expense & hassle of having every lens sent back for an update. I would be happy with such a solution... any solution that doesn't waste more of my time either shipping the lens or delivering it in person for an update.

I'm still very happy with the results so far. The lens has certain quirks and you need to learn these, but once you know what to expect, the results are very pleasing. I trust it much more than my 50 1.4.

Feb 22, 2007 at 11:29 PM


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