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Archive 2006 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L
  
 
mbailey
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p.64 #1 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


More Conclusions... and Questions
1. The 50L is optically a superior lens. I believe that it has a software issue in focusing. The issue seems to be worse when the precision focus points are used. If the lens is manually focused it is on par with the 85L and other L primes and is superior to the 50 f/1.4.
2. The problem seems worse on higher end bodies like 5Ds and 1 - series. This may be due to more precision focus points or different interactions with the software in these bodies. Has anyone tried the lens on a 20D or 30D?
3. I suspect that Castleman's results showing the 50 f/1.4 to be superior to the 50L above ~f 2.4 or so have been affected by the focusing issue. I will let Mr. Castleman be the final judge of whether Iam right on that one.
4. The problem seems to get worse with increasing numerical aperatures. Maybe someone who knows more about optics than me can explain this.
5. In my test the problem was mild at ~0.5m but got much worse at 1.5m. It was some better but not entirely resolved at ~2m. This would seem to spoil many real world shots. I would like to know if the problem ever completely disappears with increasing distance to target. I need a new test with bigger targets to test this theory.
6. In real world shooting I get a surprising number of keepers given the obvious systematic problem with the lens. Are there so many variables in a real world shooting that we can't control that this focusing problem gets lost part of the time?

Edited by mbailey on Feb 19, 2007 at 08:03 AM GMT

Feb 19, 2007 at 03:16 AM
ward1066
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p.64 #2 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


I got tired of worrying about the hit and miss AF at near distances and bought a EC-S focus screen I think it works really well in low light and off center compositions.I guess this will hold me over until Canon figures out what to do, if they do.

my faithful practice subject


This image is copyrighted by the owner




Feb 19, 2007 at 03:27 AM
Roy Pertchik
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p.64 #3 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


mbailey wrote:
.... If the lens is manually focused it is on par with the 85L and other L primes and is superior to the 50 f/1.4.


Has anyone demonstrated this yet? A manually focussed shot at 2.8 and 4.0, from a few feet, and sharper than an identical set up with the 50f1.4? I haven't seen that result yet. A lot of testing has demonstrated back focus in this range, yes, but I haven't seen a super shot done manually in the range in question, to once and for all show that the optics in this range can deliver if AF is taken out of the equation.

..
I suspect that Castleman's results showing the 50 f/1.4 to be superior to the 50L above ~f 2.4 or so have been affected by the focusing issue. I will let Mr. Castleman be the final judge of whether I am right on that one.


Yes, I am waiting with curiosity for his reevaluation of this.

Feb 19, 2007 at 04:02 AM
mbailey
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p.64 #4 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


RoyPertchi wrote:
mbailey wrote:
.... If the lens is manually focused it is on par with the 85L and other L primes and is superior to the 50 f/1.4.


Has anyone demonstrated this yet? A manually focussed shot at 2.8 and 4.0, from a few feet, and sharper than an identical set up with the 50f1.4? I haven't seen that result yet. A lot of testing has demonstrated back focus in this range, yes, but I haven't seen a super shot done manually in the range in question, to once and for all show that the optics in this range can deliver if AF is taken out of the equation.

..
I suspect that Castleman's results showing the 50 f/1.4 to be superior to the 50L above ~f 2.4 or so have been affected by the focusing issue. I will let Mr. Castleman be the final judge of whether I am right on that one.


Yes, I am waiting with curiosity for his reevaluation of this.


Here is a manually focus shot from 50L at f/2.8. This was not posted earlier


Feb 19, 2007 at 04:34 AM
lord_malone
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p.64 #5 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


ward1066 wrote:
I got tired of worrying about the hit and miss AF at near distances and bought a EC-S focus screen I think it works really well in low light and off center compositions.I guess this will hold me over until Canon figures out what to do, if they do.

my faithful practice subject


FWIW, I use an EC-S in my 1D2N, which may account for the lack of missed targets during my own assessments, giving me the false impression that my lens was fine.

Mike, a most excellent write up. And I was more than happy to send my $1600 lens half way across the country for the greater good.

Having seen two copies compared side-by-side, we have found that the missed focusing problem is consistent with earlier reports. At least we now know that the 50Ls are built to the same specs! I think we should collectively, as a community, make our voices heard to Canon. I know a lot of us are past our return period and are stuck with what we have. So it's either Canon addresses the issue and fixes it, or we're stuck with a lens that doesn't perform optimally at every level.

To add, I do believe that a firmware fix is in order to address the focusing issue. We've already proven that the lens is great optically. Being that the lens performed flawlessy on the XT and subpar on the 5D and 1D series tells me that it's all in the software.


Feb 19, 2007 at 04:34 AM
mbailey
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p.64 #6 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Here is a shot from the 50 f/1.4 at f2.8 The 50L seems a hair sharper,imo.

Edited by mbailey on Feb 18, 2007 at 11:40 PM GMT

Feb 19, 2007 at 04:36 AM
Roy Pertchik
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p.64 #7 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


mbailey wrote:
Here is a manually focus shot from 50L at f/2.8. This was not posted earlier


That looks great! Is it a 100% crop?

Edit: Saw your next post, now. Yes, I agree, the shot from the 50L is a little sharper. I think this is conclusive... when they get the focus problem fixed, the 50L will be a superior lens all around. I'm sure they will fix this.

Edited by RoyPertchi on Feb 18, 2007 at 11:43 PM GMT

Feb 19, 2007 at 04:38 AM
mbailey
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p.64 #8 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


RoyPertchi wrote:
mbailey wrote:
Here is a manually focus shot from 50L at f/2.8. This was not posted earlier


That looks great! Is it a 100% crop?


Its a crop. Iam not sure if its a 50%, 66%, or 100%. I can post the original if you would like to see it.


Feb 19, 2007 at 04:42 AM
lord_malone
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p.64 #9 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Well well welll... Now we see that the 50L is sharper at 2.8! And probably up through the rest of the f/stops as well. Good job, Mike. Looks pin sharp to me.

But now it is a common belief that the 50 1.4 and 1.8 is sharper at the f/stops where the 50L suffers from backfocusing. We need to relook at everything.

Feb 19, 2007 at 04:43 AM
ghuff
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p.64 #10 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


lord_malone wrote:
Well well welll... Now we see that the 50L is sharper at 2.8! And probably up through the rest of the f/stops as well.


That's what my initial testing showed in early December, and why I have been waiting around for Canon to fix the lens.

I guess everyone has to see it for themselves...


Feb 19, 2007 at 04:49 AM
lord_malone
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p.64 #11 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


ghuff wrote:
lord_malone wrote:
Well well welll... Now we see that the 50L is sharper at 2.8! And probably up through the rest of the f/stops as well.


That's what my initial testing showed in early December, and why I have been waiting around for Canon to fix the lens.

I guess everyone has to see it for themselves...



You did? Man, that had to be like 150 pages back or something. Most of us probably forgot you posted that.

And most of us do have to see for ourselves. I was convinced that I had a good copy and you guys were just paranoid. Well, add me to list of paranoids.

Feb 19, 2007 at 04:55 AM
Roy Pertchik
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p.64 #12 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


I want them to fix it, and I want one!

Feb 19, 2007 at 04:59 AM
ghuff
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p.64 #13 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


lord_malone,
I think you were right to test for yourself. What I meant was everyone had to see that the lens was sharp when focused manually. And yes it was probably on about page 40 something...

It was sharp enough that I sent my first one back 3 times to Canon trying to get them to fix it where it would AF as well as it would manually focus...

I was impressed and really wanted it to work right.

One of these shots was with the old 50L f/1.0...so don't confuse it....it is clearly labeled....I included it in the series for comparison.

But this sequence was essentially manually focused...and shows that the lens was fairly sharp through all apertures....I focused once and left AF off for all consecutive shots..

This was my first lens....distance from the wall was 10 feet.

http://www.pbase.com/ghuff/new_50l_f12

Edited by ghuff on Feb 18, 2007 at 11:26 PM GMT

Edited by ghuff on Feb 18, 2007 at 11:26 PM GMT

Feb 19, 2007 at 05:00 AM
 



lord_malone
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p.64 #14 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


ghuff wrote:
lord_malone,
I think you were right to test for yourself. What I meant was everyone had to see that the lens was sharp when focused manually. And yes it was probably on about page 40 something...

It was sharp enough that I sent my first one back 3 times to Canon trying to get them to fix it where it would AF as well as it would manually focus...

I was impressed and really wanted it to work right.

One of these shots was with the old 50L...so don't confuse it....it is clearly labeled....

But this sequence was manually focused...and shows that the lens is sharp through all apertures....

This was my first lens....

http://www.pbase.com/ghuff/new_50l_f12


I'm just glad that Mike was able to confirm what I began to suspect to be true. After reading this thread starting from day one to now, I just had this nagging feeling that I couldn't shake and didn't have confidence in my own lens testing. When I get my lens back from Mike I'm going to be getting in touch with Canon. Spread the word!


Edited by lord_malone on Feb 19, 2007 at 09:06 AM GMT

Feb 19, 2007 at 05:25 AM
tmr4
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p.64 #15 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


I've been following this thread for some time now and have confirmed my lens (UU1100, ser# 694xxx) behaves as has been described by many here (on my XTi, someone ask about a 30D and the XTi has the same AF sensor). I too have found that the problem is often missed in real world shots. The backfocus of my lens isn't as dramatic as some I've seen posted and disappears pretty much with manual focus (focus at f/1.2 and then take a series in MF without changing the focus). Here is the f/2.8 shot in a manual focus series (taken at about 2 feet):

http://www.pbase.com/tmr4/image/74563700/large.jpg



Feb 19, 2007 at 08:23 AM
pcho
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p.64 #16 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Well mine was one of the UU1100 and I returned it. It displayed very irregular focusing issues. Sometimes it looks ok and sometime it back focus very badly. I returned to my dealer and he did their own test and confirmed my issues. I decided not to get a replacement.

Here is a sample. I focus on my son's left eye and see how sharp his right eye is. Would you believe it. I have confirmed the focus point as well so I did not make any mistake about which eye I focussed on. I was totally shocked when I saw this result. I really didn't want to return the lens as I keep convincing myself it was my focusing error until I did more test to display this inconsistancy

Perry

Taken at F3.2


This image is copyrighted by the owner






Feb 19, 2007 at 10:35 AM
lord_malone
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p.64 #17 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Well, I think we've all already have come to the conclusion that there is an issue and Canon needs to fix it. A can see a firmware update happening in the near future. However, there no denying that when this lens is on, optically it's a solid performer.

tmr4, the XTi, as well as the 30D, are both the most recent incarnations of their respective bodies and may have the same software anomally as the 5D and 1 series bodies. The more variables we throw into the mix, the less/more we seem to isolate the problem, or create more unanswered questions.

Edited by lord_malone on Feb 19, 2007 at 11:00 AM GMT

Feb 19, 2007 at 03:34 PM
Photon
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p.64 #18 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


lord_malone wrote:
...
tmr4, the XTi, as well as the 30D, are both the most recent incarnations of their respective bodies and may have the same software anomally as the 5D and 1 series bodies. The more variables we throw into the mix, the we seem to isolate the problem, or create more unanswered questions.

Hey, I just remembered that I still have my D60 sitting around unused!
Should I test the 50L on it?
Why not, all I need is time!

Feb 19, 2007 at 04:39 PM
lord_malone
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p.64 #19 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Give it a whirl and see what happens. I'd be curious to see how it behaves on an earlier body.

Feb 19, 2007 at 06:54 PM
eeprete
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p.64 #20 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Canon is certainly well aware by now. I'd almost suggest waiting for an official statement from Canon before you bang down their doors, but then again, the more emails they get the better it is for us. I wrote Chuck again on Thursday afternoon and he informed me testing is still going on at Canon Japan and had no official word.

Just for kicks and perhaps this is a novel idea, but has anyone tested this lens on a film camera? I might just pull out the old Rebel Xs today to try it. Worse comes to worse, I've wasted a roll of film.

Feb 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM
Photon
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p.64 #21 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


I did a few quick shots with the D60, but was only reminded:
1. ISO 1000 is the limit
2. ISO 800 is noisy, to the extent that resolution is reduced
3. AF in dim light can't compare to the 1D, unless the assist light is enabled

With the AF assist, it seemed accurate at 1.4, but that's not where we have problems anyway.

If I get a chance today, I'll try the chart and include a range of apertures.

Ed, good idea - maybe I'll run a roll of film through the EOS 3. Who knows when I'll get to scan it, though...

If Canon is running tests, I don't see how they could fail to identify the problem and quantify it better than any of us could. If a firmware fix is a possible solution, it ought to be on the way!

Feb 20, 2007 at 04:23 PM
rscheffler
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p.64 #22 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


mbailey wrote:
6. In real world shooting I get a surprising number of keepers given the obvious systematic problem with the lens. Are there so many variables in a real world shooting that we can't control that this focusing problem gets lost part of the time?


This is pretty much my assessment of the 50 1.2. I spent over an hour in the store testing it with one of my 1DIIN bodies and saw the same back focus problems discussed throughout this thread. At very close distances, less than one meter, working under very controlled parameters, AF results indicated back focusing. MF on one point and varying the f/stop from 1.2 to 5.6 showed a shift in the plane of focus progressively farther behind the initial point of MF. (BTW, the camera was tethered to a laptop and images were examined on the computer, not the camera's LCD). This was discouraging to see.

However, after analyzing numerous spontaneous images made around the store, including relatively tight head shots, I found AF was nearly always spot on. For this reason I decided to take the lens as is and try to learn its quirks.

I've had it now for almost a month and find AF results at 1.5-2m and farther are nearly always more accurate than my attempts to MF. At closer distances I haven't really noticed AF inaccuracy, but at those distances it's also a lot easier to accurately MF, which I tend to do out of habit carried over from the 85 1.2 (I find it's usually much faster & easier to MF off centre subjects than focus & recompose... I absolutely do not trust the off centre AF points with fast lenses). At the minimum focusing distance though, it is clearly evident in the viewfinder that AF back focuses - and also evident in final images. Here I'll use MF almost always.

My lens is UU1200 with ser# 714xxx.

BTW, I've been using the Ec-S screen now for a year and have found it extremely invaluable with the 85 1.2. It also seems to work well with the 50 1.2. I would highly recommend it for these fast lenses, though I will add that I personally don't find much difference in focusing acuity between it and the standard screen with 2.8 lenses and slower. As well, those unfamiliar with the "S" screen should be warned that it is somewhat darker than the standard screen, particularly with lenses slower than 2.8. Some may find it to be intolerably dark, though I still use it with f/4 lenses.

Feb 21, 2007 at 12:35 AM
lord_malone
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p.64 #23 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


I use the Ec-S on my 1D2N. That may account for why I seem to have more hits than misses, and the illusion that my lens didn't suffer from this problem. My 1D has the standard OEM screen, and I noticed more misfocusing when used on that body.

Feb 21, 2007 at 05:59 AM
tkjaer
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p.64 #24 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Just received my copy today (after about 2˝ months of wait). I too see AF problems with my lens.

When shooting at close to minimum focusing distance, AF seems spot-on at f1.2, but way off at f3.2.

Both shots with center focusing point, focused on the D in DNK. First shot is f1.2, second one is f3.2. I shot about 5 of both, with the same results.



This image is copyrighted by the owner






This image is copyrighted by the owner




Feb 21, 2007 at 12:57 PM
ghuff
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p.64 #25 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


tkjaer wrote: Just received my copy today (after about 2˝ months of wait). I too see AF problems with my lens.

Hi Thomas, Sorry your lens has issues also, and thanks for including some test shots so that we can compare and see the issue.

I don't know how long Canon will continue to test and / or ignore the issue with it seeming to be so widespread. Hopefully they will announce a direction soon.

Just curious, what is your date code and first 3 digits of your serial #?





Edited by ghuff on Feb 21, 2007 at 08:39 AM GMT

Feb 21, 2007 at 02:17 PM




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