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Archive 2006 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body

  
 
Jeff
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p.1 #1 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Please post your hands-on experiences with the recently-released Canon Eos 400D/XTi here. Now that the camera is shipping, I figure it's a good time to let the ~Master~ thread make it's way to the archives.

Please folks, try to keep this thread on topic and the idle 'chatter' to a minimum, so that the thread can hopefully become a valuable resource for those looking for real-world info on this new camera, provided by those that actually own it. Feel free to provide image examples, 100% crops, details about the camera's interface and usage, especially in relation to the camera it replaces (350D).

Thanks!

Jeff
FM.com Moderator



Sep 11, 2006 at 12:29 AM
EOS20
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p.1 #2 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


I had a play around with the 400D today, Not bad!!

The new combination screen is pritty good (Compared to my 300D anyway) and its so light weight. Would be nice as a walkabout P&S with a prime lens! I did notice that when you turn the camera off it stays on for a few seconds and does a sensor clean.

Only problem is its only available as a twin lens kit (Everywhere I've been anyway) So you can't get just the body at the moment.
The price was $1649 (Au) with the 18-55 and 75-300 lenses.

Here are a few pics I took with the camera at ISO 400 with the kit lens right out of the camera and only resized for the web:

http://static.flickr.com/91/240169271_9f62c2074c_o.jpg


http://static.flickr.com/86/240169273_859d1807d1_o.jpg




Sep 11, 2006 at 12:41 AM
Kamil Kisiel
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p.1 #3 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


I played with this camera at Bic Camera in Nagoya this past weekend. It's called the Kiss Digital X here in Japan. Unfortunately no images to provide, but I'm not really the pixel-peeping type so I will focus on interface and handling. I've previously used a 300D for a few weeks, and have tried the 350D on a few occasions.

The body was very light and small, as is to be expected from this model of camera. This is one of the reasons why I got a 20D instead of the XT: it just doesn't feel comfortable in my hands, especially with my long fingers around the grip. This has not changed from previous models. The viewfinder is also, of course, small, but that's not as big of an issue. Based on just my playing around, the AF system seems to work at least as well as that of my 20D (no focus tests here though, ask someone else about that). The new screen is superb: bright and crisp, high viewing angle. I did't miss the rear LCD of the previous rebels at all, it's much easier to read and change settings on the large bright screen instead. Changing settings is pretty convenient, except for aperture where you have to hold down a button while turning the main wheel. This wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that the button is on the same side of the camera as the wheel. This means either an ackward hold with the thumb, or reaching scross with your other hand. I believe this is the same as the other Rebels, but as a 20D user for over half a year now, it simply drove me nuts.

I didn't notice any considerable lag from the anti-dust system when starting up the camera, it's certainly still much faster than the 300D was by my recollection.

That's all I can remember right now, if you have any questions feel free to ask and I may be able to answer. The selling price here at Bic is 89,800 JPY for body only, or 109,800 JPY for body + the EF-S 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 II USM. Bic also has a third configuraiton with a EF 55-200mm F4.5-5.6 II USM added to the body + kit lens combo for 132,800 JPY, but I'm not sure if this a Canon thing or just a special they are having.

Oh, and if you haven't seen it yet, Canon is running this strangely amusing advertisement here in Japan, on the whole "Kiss" theme: http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=38016



Sep 11, 2006 at 01:31 AM
stanj
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p.1 #4 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


I had the opportunity to use this camera for one day about a week ago. I was mainly interested how it would compare to my wife's 350D, as a potential replacement. While I wasn't too thrilled about the combined color LCD for everything, I did find the image quality to be suprising. Specifically, we shoot a lot of indoor available light, and so I focused on 1600 and 800 ISO shots. They came out far better than expected. In a direct comparison, they left the 1D2N totally in the dust noise-wise, without looking in any way artificial or Nikon-like over-NR'd. The 400D looked at least one stop better than the 1D2N.

So far I was trying to convince my wife that she needs a 5D (which I could use as well); however, now I see that the 400D is perfect for her and has a very similar image quality. I'll buy one as soon as it's available.
ISO 1600:
http://fm.jirman.com/400D.jpg



Sep 11, 2006 at 02:50 AM
DaveEP
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p.1 #5 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


I have had a 400D for a couple of days now, not really enough for a full review, but so far so good. My Canon DSLR experience includes a 300D (sold), a 10D (borrowed), 20D (for sale!), 1D mk2 and 1Ds mk2. So, quite a wide range there. While I have used a 350D, 5D and 30D for a few moments each, I don’t consider that ‘experience’, so I am going to leave those to one side when comparing.

Size
I bought the 400D purely as a walkabout / travel camera. So, being small and light is an advantage in this area, and compared to the 1 series bricks it’s a welcome relief. However, if I were to use this as my main camera body I would surely buy the extra battery grip for it. I always tend to hold a camera by the lens when using longer lenses, and I had no trouble using a 70-300IS, 24-105L or 10-22 (my lightweight travel trio) on this body. I could see that if I were trying to hold it by the hand grip all the time, I may have some trouble. My hands are not that big either. A Grip would make a lot of difference.

Sound
The shutter sound is amazingly different to anything I have heard before on an SLR. It’s more like a pistol firing through a silencer than a shutter. This is a world apart from the ‘snap’ of the 20D, and I can see some pros selecting this for times when they really need to be quiet (e.g. in a church). The shutter button itself is positive enough.

LCD
I heard so many complaints about the single LCD (from people who don't yet own a 400D/XTi) that I was a little concerned. To be fair, it is very easy to read, and all the major settings are clearly displayed there. It has caught me a little off guard a couple of times when I looked down to see the 2 second preview, and being too slow, what I see is actually the settings display instead. Switching it off is easy enough through the dedicated display button, and of course it turns off automatically when something gets within a few inches of the eye cup sensor. It is something that will take a little getting used to, but on the whole, I don’t see it as a drawback, and would actually call it a feature. I think we will see more of this type of thing in future models.

Controls / User Interface
I was not unhappy with the control and UI of the 300D prior to selling it. I quite like the UI on the 1 series, but I still think Canon’s best UI is the 20D/30D/5D. It’s so easy to use. However, the 400D is not that bad once you get used to it. I can already fly around it pretty quickly. The obvious functions that take a hit are exposure compensation and flash exposure compensation. The exposure comp is fairly easy to deal with, you just hold down the Av+/- button while rotating the front wheel. The flash exposure caused me to go to the menus. However, there is a custom function that allows you to make the ‘Set’ button bring up Flash exposure comp instantly, and then you can just turn the wheel as before. This is a welcome function.

ISO/AF/WB etc are all very easily accessed via the dedicated buttons on the back. The large LCD makes selecting the setting very easy. I wonder how easy this will be is ‘very’ bright sunlight, but I had no problems yesterday, when it was at least ‘fairly’ sunny. The LCD brightness can also be changed. Another welcome addition is after selecting a shot to use as a custom white balance, the 400D prompts you to select the custom white balance setting! How many times have I forgotten that one simple extra step before? thank you Canon!

ISO Performance
ISO settings are 100,200,400,800,1600. Given that Canon squeezed in more pixels, I had expected to see some real deterioration on the noise levels. I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised. There are times when I have to pixel peep, and then there are times when I don’t. The pixel peeping is only relevant to me at ISO 100/200 and occasionally 400. I don't tend to sell shots taken with higher ISO settings. When ever I am using ISO 800 and above it’s for personal use only, and this stuff gets printed to paper, and not sold as pixels in a file. So, at ISO 800 and ISO 1600 how does it perform? I made an 8x10 print from both ISO 800 & 1600 and I have to say I am more than pleased with the results. No complaints at all. In terms of prints, it easily matches my 20D. In terms of pixel peeping at high ISO, or measuring the noise, I will leave that to others. For prints, this will do just fine. It would have been nice to get the 1/3 stop ISO increments, but I realise that Canon has to draw the line some where to protect it’s higher prices models.

AF focus Points
As is well known by now, the focus points are the diamond 9 point system as used in the 30D. This is welcome, and works very well. I have only taken a couple of hundred shots so far, but from what I can tell, none are out of focus - with the exception of one of a motor cycle sequence that was probably use error.

Dust Buster
Despite trying, I can’t ‘feel’ the anti dust system running, but by putting my ear in one specific place I could hear the vibrations for a short time. The anti dust comes on automatically when you start up (it can be interrupted to take a shot if you wish), and when you shut down the LCD shows a ‘Sensor cleaning’ graphic for around a second. It is also possible to have the function run manually too. Having this feature makes me less worried about changing lenses in the field, but, I’ve only changed lenses a few times, so I really don’t have good feedback on how well it works, other than there is no visible dust on any of my shots.... I wish I could say the same for my 1Ds2. This is the one feature that would make me think hard about upgrading the 1Ds2.

Viewfinder
For the purpose I have this body (Travel etc), I don’t really see the viewfinder size as a big issue. If it were my main body, I may have a different idea. While it is smaller than I am used to on the 1Ds2, it’s really not that bad, especially in daylight. I imaging as the light starts to go, it may become a little harder to use, but that’s the price you pay for a small, light and cheapish body.

Flash
I have never been a big fan of built in flash units, because their power is far too small to be really useful. At a push, with a kit lens on, I am sure this is adequate. However, with anything wide (e.g. 10-22) or beyond the kit lens (i.e. 24-105L), you start to get shadows that are annoying, and the flash itself is not bright enough for any sort of distance. It’s Ok for fill flash outdoors, but once the light it below ‘reasonable’ then I will continue to lug my 580EX around for now.

Picture Quality
I don’t tend to do too much pixel peeping for travel shots, but I was pleasantly surprised how good the shots look. On the screen, a little bit of sharpening (300%, 0.3, 1) gives a very satisfactory result. As expected, I printed out to A3 with no visible problems at all.

Continuous Firing Mode
3 fps is slow by my 1D2 standards, and I can tell. However, for the price I am not complaining. Shooting RAW gets you 9 shots in the buffer. Shooting JPEG gets you even more.

Focus Modes
There are three focusing modes, One-Shot, AI Focus and AI Servo. All appeared to function as expected, with the AI Servo tracking a motorcycle without any problems. As mentioned above, one of the shots in this sequence was out of focus, but I am pretty sure that was user error, and not down to the camera.

Metering
There are three metering modes, Evaluative, Partial and Centre Weighted Average. No spot metering, but then I don't use it that often on my other bodies to miss it. If you use it a lot, then clearly this is a major drawback, but for me, it's really no big deal. I can't think of a single instance where I got a shot with spot metering that I could not have got without it. It made it easier for sure, but it was not the only way to get the shot.

Battery
I had not realised that the 350/400s used the same batteries as my older S40 P&S. Nice one Canon, I already have 2 spare batteries Even so, they are small, and will likely only last 300-400 shots. Turning the LCD off when not needed, will obviously help! Also, for extended use, I can see the battery grip being useful.

Buffer & Flash Write Speed
The one thing that made me sell my 300D so quickly was that you only get 4 RAW shots in the buffer before lockout. I am pleased to say that the 400D gets 9, and then it’s about 1.5 seconds between additional shots. When shooting RAW+L the limit appears to be 8. Shooting JPEG only, the flash writing appeared to keep up pretty well, and I gave up shooting before the buffer filled.

So, while this is not an exhaustive ‘test’ or ‘review’, with the time I have had ‘hands on’ I have no regrets in buying it. For reference, £549 from Jessops. The only negative I have at this point is that ACR does not yet support the 400D/XTi RAW files.


{EDIT} I just added the BG-E3 grip and this makes a massive difference. The size is no longer an issue at all. So now, when I need small I can have it, and when I don't the grip is pretty good


Edited by DaveEP on Sep 11, 2006 at 03:46 PM GMT



Sep 11, 2006 at 05:23 AM
EOS20
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p.1 #6 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


DaveEP wrote:
Sound
The shutter sound is amazingly different to anything I have heard before on an SLR. It’s more like a pistol firing through a silencer than a shutter. This is a world apart from the ‘snap’ of the 20D, and I can see some pros selecting this for times when they really need to be quiet (e.g. in a church). The shutter button itself is positive enough.



Yeh I noticed that too, The sutter is really quiet! Now hopefully Canon will make the 40D's shutter sound like that!!



Sep 11, 2006 at 07:32 AM
Xavier Rival
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p.1 #7 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


EOS20 wrote:
Yeh I noticed that too, The sutter is really quiet! Now hopefully Canon will make the 40D's shutter sound like that!!

Is it quiter than the 10D shutter ? or just similar ?



Sep 11, 2006 at 07:43 AM
DaveEP
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p.1 #8 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Xavier Rival wrote:
Is it quiter than the 10D shutter ? or just similar ?


It's long enough ago that I can't quite remember the shutter sound of a 10D, but it's quieter than my 300D was.



Sep 11, 2006 at 07:50 AM
Tim Speciale
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p.1 #9 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


You guys seem to be discribing the noise (from the shutter) that you'd hear from a 350D.


Sep 11, 2006 at 09:26 AM
tdefriez
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p.1 #10 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Like an early poster I purchased this as a high end P&S to back up a 5D and 1Ds MkII and so far I'm happy. I could add to the comments posted above but most backup my early impressions. After 5D and 1Ds the interface does take a bit of adjustment but not as much as I expected. The viewfinder coverage is not as good as the 5D or 1Ds but that is to be expected. The biggest issue I have is the usual wait for support of the camera in PS etc. (even Mac browser can not preview files) so far only iView Media Pro appears to open them OK.


Sep 11, 2006 at 09:42 AM
ninecount
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p.1 #11 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Here's a copy of my other post, but I'll copy it to this 'hands on' thread for good measure....

Also note: I bought it at Best Buy. Also a reader said some of my shots weren't in good focus (front focused), I'm thinking it was because I was too close to the subject and had to back up to get within the focus range.

here's the info....

I picked up a new 400d.

I upgraded from a 350d, so I already knew what I was getting into. I'm hoping the AF is a little quicker... we'll see when I do some action/sports.

I like the improvements, like the LCD, the AF points (slightly different), the better menus (more descriptive)

My plan is to use this until the next 40D or whatever body is released, along with the Pro body (MKIII?), then upgrade to one of those when they are available.

I just wanted to kick the tires of this new 400D.... I like it.

Here are 2 sample shots

FOR YOU PIXEL PEEPERS I KEPT THE ORIGINAL SIZES HERE: Here are 12 pics in an XTi gallery at my Pbase site : http://www.pbase.com/ninecount/xti_samples

http://www.pbase.com/ninecount/image/66573292/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/ninecount/image/66581219/large.jpg






Sep 11, 2006 at 11:27 AM
kenshin
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p.1 #12 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Just a couple of ISO100 pics taken with an XTi set to the Standard Picture style. Originally shot in RAW, converted to JPEG using Canon's RAW Image Task. Resized with Photoshop CS2. I've also been pretty impressed with images I've gotten out of it at ISO800 & 1600. Have no qualms using the XTi at either of those settings. Overall I like the upgrade from the XT. Grip is a tiny bit deeper for a better hold and it's great being able to see my ISO setting on the display finally. The extra focus points are nice but I don't think I've tested the new AF to the extent of its capabilities yet. IQ I don't think is significantly better or worse than the XT.

Click on each image for the full-sized JPEG (~5.5MB each).

[url=http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/japonica_large.jpg]
http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/japonica.jpg
[/url]

[url=http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/chipmunk_large.jpg]
http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/chipmunk.jpg
[/url]

[url=http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/butterfly_large.jpg]
http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/butterfly.jpg
[/url]

[url=http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/flower_large.jpg]
http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/flower.jpg
[/url]

[url=http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/lilyflower_large.jpg]
http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/lilyflower.jpg
[/url]

[url=http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/bittermelons_large.jpg]
http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/bittermelons.jpg
[/url]

And a 100% crop of the chipmunk:

http://www.hitokiri.com/blog/archives/images/sunhome/chipmunk_crop.jpg




Sep 11, 2006 at 12:12 PM
Sam Bennett
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p.1 #13 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Is the LCD backlit when it's just in "data" mode?


Sep 11, 2006 at 12:56 PM
DaveEP
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p.1 #14 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Sam Bennett wrote:
Is the LCD backlit when it's just in "data" mode?


Yes



Sep 11, 2006 at 01:02 PM
Sam Bennett
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p.1 #15 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Any idea what battery life is like on it?


Sep 11, 2006 at 01:06 PM
ninecount
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p.1 #16 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Any idea what battery life is like on it?

Don't know haven't had it long enough to run the battery down yet!

-John



Sep 11, 2006 at 01:29 PM
pandem1k
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p.1 #17 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


wow, the colors are really great


Sep 11, 2006 at 03:24 PM
ninecount
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p.1 #18 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


I just got an email from B&H, they have them in stock.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/sitem/sku=457506&is=REG&bi=E15

-John



Sep 11, 2006 at 04:12 PM
AGeoJO
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p.1 #19 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Well, I clicked on this one, too . My observation though, regardless of what it is, Canon is pretty fast in making this camera available. Something like 2-3 weeks after the announcement? I am impressed....


Sep 11, 2006 at 04:56 PM
ward1066
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p.1 #20 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


are these pics straight out of the camera jpegs?


Sep 11, 2006 at 05:07 PM
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