OT: Something i don't understand

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Archive 2006 · OT: Something i don't understand

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p.1 #1 · OT: Something i don't understand

sorry if this subject brought up before. I noticed that in classified section, 98% of the time, people sell their used equipment at the price almost the same as brand new from B&H. For example, a lens from B&H sell for $359 plus $7 shipping charge = $366. Someone sell the same lens for $330 plus paypal fee = $339

The different is $26. Why would you want to buy a used unit for $26 cheaper? Even at $50 cheaper, it is still USED lens. Why is that?

Edited by Jeff on Jul 26, 2006 at 10:27 PM GMT (Reason: OT, moved to the appropriate forum.)

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:22 AM

dan
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p.1 #2 · OT: Something i don't understand

Why is that?

People are not forced to pay the asking price...
But they do.

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dan

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:26 AM

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p.1 #3 · OT: Something i don't understand

that just crazy.. or stupid IMO.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:34 AM

paulhodson
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p.1 #4 · OT: Something i don't understand

One of the arguments is that people feel that buying a lens from an established member means that they can trust their view on the quality of the individual lens offered.

Jul 27, 2006 at 09:01 AM

mdude85
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p.1 #5 · OT: Something i don't understand

Because if I save $26 it means I can now spend $26 on something else. Some people don't mind buying used if they are under the impression that there is no difference in quality between new and used.

Jul 27, 2006 at 03:29 PM

RDowdy
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p.1 #6 · OT: Something i don't understand

Personally, I tend to avoid used lenses because of this reason - you don't really save all that much.

There are some circumstances where it can make sense however. If you are on a fairly inflexible budget, that $26 difference can make the difference between being in your price range and outside of it.

Used lenses are also popular with people who anticipate using them for a while then reselling them again themselves. If you are as good a salesman as the previous owner, you can get the same amount back that you spent on it, minus maybe shipping and paypal fees. The idea of getting to use a lens for as long as one wants with no money lost in the long run (though it was tied up while you had the lens) can be more appealing than renting, or taking that extra $26 depreciation from a new lens.

And, as the other replies touched on, the seller might be able to give you an indication of the quality. Say a particular lens is notoriously hard to find a sharp copy of, but such-and-such lens conniseur went through five copies and finally found one that lived up to even his discriminating tastes. Now he's vouching for the quality of the lens as a respected member of these forums. That might be a lot more tempting than taking one's chances on a straight from the factory copy.

Jul 27, 2006 at 04:15 PM

fuzzybabybunny
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p.1 #7 · OT: Something i don't understand

I don't know about you, but I've saved HUNDREDS by going used... never bought a new lens in my life.

Plus I like the fact that the lens is guaranteed sharp and in good working order such as proper focusing.

Jul 27, 2006 at 04:58 PM

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p.1 #8 · OT: Something i don't understand

I've also saved hundreds by going used. Perhaps if you're a consumer who has chosen to limit your information intake, savings might be minimal for a variety of reasons.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:03 PM

paulhodson
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p.1 #9 · OT: Something i don't understand

fuzzybabybunny wrote:
Plus I like the fact that the lens is guaranteed sharp and in good working order such as proper focusing.

"guaranteed" is a bit strong- you only get a guarantee with a new one. Even though I made the point about buying used for this reason - you are still taking a chance.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:08 PM

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p.1 #10 · OT: Something i don't understand

RDowdy wrote:

And, as the other replies touched on, the seller might be able to give you an indication of the quality. Say a particular lens is notoriously hard to find a sharp copy of, but such-and-such lens conniseur went through five copies and finally found one that lived up to even his discriminating tastes. Now he's vouching for the quality of the lens as a respected member of these forums. That might be a lot more tempting than taking one's chances on a straight from the factory copy.

I'm not quite sure where this notion came from by which if you buy a lens from a store or from the company directly, that it's going to be a crapshoot as to whether or not you'll get a good copy of the lens. In reality, about 99% of the lenses are good copies and are in accordance with the (high) quality control standards the company has set. People almost always mistake user error or overcriticism for a "bad copy." The chances that you buy a new lens that is flawless are higher than the chances that you can find a used lens that is flawless. It's strange to assume that if you buy used, you're taking less of a chance...this falls contrary to what occurs in the used product market.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:11 PM

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p.1 #11 · OT: Something i don't understand

paulhodson wrote:
fuzzybabybunny wrote:
Plus I like the fact that the lens is guaranteed sharp and in good working order such as proper focusing.

"guaranteed" is a bit strong- you only get a guarantee with a new one. Even though I made the point about buying used for this reason - you are still taking a chance.

I wouldn't say that. This is all provided that the seller is reputable and experienced, of course. If you buy from a seller that gives you sample pics and has the experience to judge the quality of a lens, you can use the sample pics and the judgement to basically guarantee that the lens is good. I'd have to say that on FM, the chance is very minimal because most of the sellers here are very honest and really know what they're talking about. eBay is a different story, obviously.

With a new lens, it may come with focus issues, it may not be sharp, and all this is because you don't have sample pictures or a review of that *particular* lens before purchasing. Then you have to spend more money to ship it in for warranty service or calibration, and incur time costs.

Getting a new lens and having it be perfect is a function of randomness. Getting a used lens from an honest and knowledgable seller who has had personal experience with that individual lens is not a function of randomness.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:16 PM

MedHead
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p.1 #12 · OT: Something i don't understand

I've noticed the "used condition, new price" issue in the past as well, and I don't understand it, either. Having a return policy, payment via credit/debit card, mint condition body/accessories/manual, guaranteed valid warranty card, and a brand new box (I keep them) is worth enough for me to spend a few extra dollars and buy new. If it's more than a few extra dollars, I'll consider buying used. How much is a "few" is determined by the product and my confidence in the seller, so I don't really have a preset amount.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:19 PM

fuzzybabybunny
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p.1 #13 · OT: Something i don't understand

mdude85 wrote:
RDowdy wrote:

And, as the other replies touched on, the seller might be able to give you an indication of the quality. Say a particular lens is notoriously hard to find a sharp copy of, but such-and-such lens conniseur went through five copies and finally found one that lived up to even his discriminating tastes. Now he's vouching for the quality of the lens as a respected member of these forums. That might be a lot more tempting than taking one's chances on a straight from the factory copy.

I'm not quite sure where this notion came from by which if you buy a lens from a store or from the company directly, that it's going to be a crapshoot as to whether or not you'll get a good copy of the lens. In reality, about 99% of the lenses are good copies and are in accordance with the (high) quality control standards the company has set. People almost always mistake user error or overcriticism for a "bad copy." The chances that you buy a new lens that is flawless are higher than the chances that you can find a used lens that is flawless. It's strange to assume that if you buy used, you're taking less of a chance...this falls contrary to what occurs in the used product market.

Huh? If 99% of new lenses are good copies, then how can the percentage of the used lenses that are good be LESS than this base percentage? A lens doesn't just randomly go from being a good copy to a bad copy... especially in the hands of someone who takes care of their stuff, and if the lens was still good at the time of sale...

Take the Sigma 30mm for instance. A BIG percentage of new 30mm's have focusing issues. By going used, I was able to get a CONFIRMED good copy.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:22 PM

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p.1 #14 · OT: Something i don't understand

There is amazing price support here on FM. Sure, you may pay what you might think is a high price for used gear, but OTOH, you will be able to sell it or other gear for that solid price as your needs change. (and they do seem to change rapidly in the digital age.)

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:23 PM

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p.1 #15 · OT: Something i don't understand

Most of my lens are used from here, because it has saved me money. I got my 16-35 for 1000; my 35L for 950 when no place had them in stock; and my 24-70 for 900. Someone might find that to be overpriced; I do not.

Yes, some lens are "overpriced" (whatever that means), but often it's a new person who bought something before the price went down and now doesn't understand why he shouldn't get 90% of his original price, which is basically the B+H price. And it does feel like there are a few arbitrage power sellers, but hey, no one forces you to buy from them.

Jul 27, 2006 at 05:55 PM

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p.1 #16 · OT: Something i don't understand

fuzzybabybunny wrote:

Huh? If 99% of new lenses are good copies, then how can the percentage of the used lenses that are good be LESS than this base percentage? A lens doesn't just randomly go from being a good copy to a bad copy... especially in the hands of someone who takes care of their stuff, and if the lens was still good at the time of sale...

Take the Sigma 30mm for instance. A BIG percentage of new 30mm's have focusing issues. By going used, I was able to get a CONFIRMED good copy.

Because used copies degrade. They form mold, they acquire interior dust, they get scratched, they get dropped, dented, sprayed with god-knows-what liquids, they get exposed to environmental elements like wind, sunlight, pollution, and smoke. Their moving parts begin to erode or become loose from over-use. I think you see where I'm going with this. If 99% of lenses are flawless when new, the percentage is invariably lower for used lenses.

How big is BIG? So big to warrant a recall?

Jul 27, 2006 at 07:58 PM

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p.1 #17 · OT: Something i don't understand

mdude85 wrote:
fuzzybabybunny wrote:

Huh? If 99% of new lenses are good copies, then how can the percentage of the used lenses that are good be LESS than this base percentage? A lens doesn't just randomly go from being a good copy to a bad copy... especially in the hands of someone who takes care of their stuff, and if the lens was still good at the time of sale...

Take the Sigma 30mm for instance. A BIG percentage of new 30mm's have focusing issues. By going used, I was able to get a CONFIRMED good copy.

Because used copies degrade. They form mold, they acquire interior dust, they get scratched, they get dropped, dented, sprayed with god-knows-what liquids, they get exposed to environmental elements like wind, sunlight, pollution, and smoke. Their moving parts begin to erode or become loose from over-use. I think you see where I'm going with this. If 99% of lenses are flawless when new, the percentage is invariably lower for used lenses.

How big is BIG? So big to warrant a recall?

Not really. Just big enough that there's a very fair chance of getting one that doesn't focus correctly.

As for degredation, ok, I agree with you there, but there's still the individual appraisal of the seller and the sample pics (of the lens and taken from the lens) that can attest to a used lens' condition. I'm limiting my argument solely to photography forums, where the majority of sellers are very honest and take care of their stuff, brought together by a common passion. If they say that a lens is in mint or excellent condition, and the pics show that the lens is tack sharp, I consider that a confirmed good lens. No one with hundreds of posts is going to try to rip someone off with a degraded lens...

Not to mention for people who will eventually sell lenses to get new ones, buying used and selling used means you incur less of a loss. In fact, I can confidently say that if I sold all my lenses, which I've had for half a year, I can at least make back my money and very likely turn a profit to boot. Whereas if I bought all new and sold them, I would incur a loss on all of my lenses.

Jul 27, 2006 at 08:48 PM

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p.1 #18 · OT: Something i don't understand

fuzzybaby, I agree with you. I've never bought a new lens in my life in fact, and I've owned something like 9 lenses throughout my time. But I'm not sure if this whole notion that you're not guaranteed a good copy if you buy from a store or from the company is really a reason to buy used. The overwhelming majority of customer complaint cases tend to result from user error or from unrealistic expectations. The logic that follows is that if someone claims they're selling you a flawless used lens, what's to say that you won't receive it and have a problem with the focusing speed...in the same vein that they may have bought a lens and sent it back four times before they stuck with one? Everyone has different expectations --- what will you do when your expectations are higher, not lower, than the seller's? Now all of a sudden it becomes a problem with buying used!

Jul 27, 2006 at 09:01 PM

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p.1 #19 · OT: Something i don't understand

let say buying a used lens will save you more than $200 then yah..maybe i'll take my chance but for example, i've seen a lot member sell 700-200 f4 or f2.8 at VERY CLOSE price to a brand new one. In some case, after adding shipping and paypal fee, the different is like $5 less compare to buy new from B&H or the same. I understand about Canon L lens hold their value but common, after few months (or even year) and some time the lens has 2 ownership already and they still expect to resell at 98% retail value?

Sample pic will not tell anything about the lens. You can take some pic prior to your selling. No body really know what happen to the lens. I'm not saying seller here is not honest. It's just about the pricing for used lens just so rediculous. Just seem to me everyone try to break even with their investment or even try to make profit out of it.

Jul 28, 2006 at 07:02 AM

Russell Smith
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p.1 #20 · OT: Something i don't understand

I am same as Victor and Scott, having saved hundreds of dollars on used lenses at BS forum here. Most are much cheaper than any $26-$36 I can assure you since I watch that forum many hours a day. I saved at least $125 or more last night about midnight on a lens. You check the seller's feedback, find out as much as possible about the person and talk by phone if possible. You can get a very good idea as to a person's character in that manner. By and large, the members are honest and reliable. New lenses are out of my reach financially as they are for many. Plus, as one member just said, the lens has been tried and found good.
Russell

Jul 28, 2006 at 08:56 PM

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