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Archive 2006 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses
  
 
Don Clary
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p.1 #1 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


JameelH and I have been tuning 4 Fotodiox adapters to 4 Zeiss lenses – 15mm f3.5, 21mm f2.8, 35mm f2.8PC, and 50mm f1.4. . The 15mm was tested on a 1Dm2; the other 3 were tested on a 5D. None of the 4 lenses would focus at infinity with the Fotodiox adapter; all stopped at some distance before infinity.

The Fotodiox is a black finished, well-machined adapter, with a silver ring in the center, where the Zeiss lens seats. It is larger in diameter than the common red & white boxed, F-S labeled eBay Chinese adapter that I prefer. The Fotodiox has a knurled outer edge that measured a consistent .064” thickness on all 4 examples. The silver seating ring measured a consistent .0585” thickness on all 4 examples.

I precision cut the adapters by grinding them on my gemstone faceting machine. I use a water-cooled 8” disc (called a lap), coated with diamonds. I cut first with 260 grit diamonds and finish with 600 grit diamonds.

Jameel tested the lens and adapter first, before making any adjustments, by photographing a suitable infinity subject. The fine detail of the subject needs to be placed in the center of the viewfinder. I prefer a telephone or high power line because it is a constant diameter subject receding in size as it approaches infinity, and is a high contrast black against a blue sky.

Jameel shot with the lens wide open, with some focus bracketing (at the infinity stop, slightly before the stop, and more before the stop). Then he shot at the infinity stop, with the lens stopped to an optimum aperture, usually f8. I take each picture into Photoshop at 100% pixels, and crop the center. Then I bring in all crops into Photoshop at 100% at the same time and compare the sharpness side by side.

I have extensive experience testing lenses, and rely on a little known fact: Stopping down a lens can increase the contrast, and stopping down greatly sharpens the edge of the image. But at the center of the lens, there is almost no difference in resolution between wide open and stopped down, even when viewing 100% crops.

If any of the wide open, bracketed images is sharper than f8 at the infinity stop, then that sharp bracket is were the lens is correctly focused. This means the lens is focusing past infinity. Then you remember this setting on the lens when you want to focus at infinity, and don’t focus using the viewfinder. 100% pixels in Photoshop is more accurate than anything you can see on a focusing screen, when using extreme wide angle lenses.

But let’s assume that f8 at the stop is sharper than any of the bracketed exposures. That means the adapter is too thick, and that you are relying on DOF (depth of field) to get some approximation of sharpness.

I thin the adapter by a small amount, .001” or .002”, remount the lens and test again. I grind it in small increments, trying not to grind past infinity. When the wide-open image is extremely close in sharpness to the f8 (at the infinity stop) image, then the adapter thickness is correct. I am grinding on the Zeiss side of the adapter, so there are no problems with the adapter being loose in the Canon bayonet. All of the adapter dimensions on the Canon side of the adapter have not changed.

The final correct thicknesses are:

Zeiss 21mm .0555”
Zeiss 15mm .055”
Zeiss 35mmPC .055”
Zeiss 50mm .054”

I ground the 50mm to .055” and it was not yet at infinity, and the next grinding increment, .0015” less (to .0535”) took it very slightly past infinity. I was amazed at how precise this adapter thickness needs to be. A human hair is approximately .001” in diameter. This thickness adjustment would be extremely difficult to do by milling, but is easy to do by grinding. But keep in mind this is 100% pixel peeping with a wide-open lens.

The thicknesses quoted above apply only to the combination of the Fotodiox adapter and Zeiss lens. I have tuned 3 F-S Chinese adapters for 3 Zeiss lenses, and that correct thickness was .060”. I use the version that has the screw stop to prevent excessive rotation. I have been thinking why the F-S adapter thickness is different than the Fotodiox. My conclusion is that the Canon bayonet flange of the adapter is at a different distance (.005”) relative to the rear seating edge of the adapter. I prefer the F-S adapter to the Fotodiox, since it is cheaper and quicker to modify. The Zeiss side of the F-S adapter is perfectly flat. On the Fotodiox, I must grind the knurled outer rim from .064” down to .0585” before I can begin to thin the silver seating ring itself.

Below is the 50mm wide open at the original .0585” thickness, and the best image at slightly before infinity at .0535”. Compare this to the f8 image at .055”. It clearly shows that the wide-open image is sharper at the correct thickness, than the f8 image is with the adapter .001” thicker than correct, and that DOF does not completely mask this focus error. In other words, the lens wide open at correct adapter thickness is sharper than the f8 image when the adapter is one human hair thickness different from correct thickness! This shows that if you must stop down the lens excessively, trying to get sharp infinity focus, the adapter is not the correct thickness, and you are not getting the sharp image you are paying for in the Zeiss lens.


50140585 = 50mm f1.4 original thickness .0585”



This image is copyrighted by the owner




50140535 = 50mm f1.4 final thickness .0535”



This image is copyrighted by the owner



508055 = 50mm f8 , 001” too thick at .055”



This image is copyrighted by the owner




15350585 = 15mm f3.5 original thickness .0585”



This image is copyrighted by the owner




1535055 = 15mm f3.5 final thickness .055”



This image is copyrighted by the owner







May 25, 2006 at 04:58 AM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #2 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Wow! That's a big difference. Great report, thanks. Any plans to do a similar study with your Zuiko lens/adapter

Paul

May 25, 2006 at 05:06 AM
Don Clary
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p.1 #3 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


If I recall correctly, my Zuiko adapter has a rim on both sides; it can't be adjusted by grinding, it needs to be milled.

May 25, 2006 at 05:10 AM
Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #4 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


I recall John Luke (JJL here) making a very similar point on another thread some time ago; paraphrasing, there is no substitute for having the correct flange-sensor distance, and small apertures are no substitute for this accuracy. These images show this perfectly. Thanks Don. KL

May 25, 2006 at 05:25 AM
Duncan Staples
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p.1 #5 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Wow - thanks Don/Jameel.

Now, where do we get all of this grinding stuff and micrometers to measure?

I will send you a 28mm f/2.8 T* Distagon with Fotodiox if you want that for your database - needs to be tested on 1DS

Duncan

May 25, 2006 at 05:38 AM
Moritz_H
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p.1 #6 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Thanks a lot Don and Jameel - i really appreciate your effort! Do you plan to sell modified adapters in the long run? I for one would be really interested - i neither have access to such great tools nor any technical experience. And i know my 35mm is really in need of a thinner adapter.

May 25, 2006 at 07:57 AM
shirozina
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p.1 #7 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Grinding or milling down the adaptor will only make the lens mount loose as it's the total difference between the 2 bayonet mounts and not the flange thickness which is important. Zeiss lenses are easily adjusted for infinity by removing the rubber focusing grip and loosening off the 3 screws slightly - this unlocks the focusing ring from the helical focus mechanism and you can then re set the infinity position - way simpler and more accurate than grinding and milling.

May 25, 2006 at 08:20 AM
marcwilson
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p.1 #8 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


This method is very interesting.
Could you describe exactly how you reset the infinity position etc as I think this would be something many here would appreciate.

Thanks.

May 25, 2006 at 11:41 AM
craig_oz_land
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p.1 #9 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Great work Don.

Your figures suggest that 1.4mm is pretty close to the correct difference.

That is 0.1mm less than the Contax - Canon published specs and seems to be in the ballpark of what a lot of others are finding. It would be interesting to know where the 0.1mm difference creeped in as this is surely too big a tolerance than both of these manufacturers would be working to.

regards.

May 25, 2006 at 12:29 PM
jjlphoto
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p.1 #10 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Don- did you have to expand the slots in the Contax side bayonets to grip the lens tighter? I used to have an old FotoHuppert adapter that I had milled to 1.4 and it had no slots to expand (the Contax side bayonets were solid), and it then fit too loose on my Contax lens.

May 25, 2006 at 12:58 PM
 



jjlphoto
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p.1 #11 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


I have some custom machined adalters that measure in at approx. 1.38mm, and I often wondered if that was too thin as most my lenses have floating elements, so a lens being too close may mean the floating element has to work harder, and I do not know if it is adversely affecting performance. The person that made them was targeting 1.4mm, but the shop that made them could not work with such exact tolerances.

May 25, 2006 at 01:01 PM
shirozina
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p.1 #12 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


My 50 1.7CZ is adjusted from under the rubber focusing ring but my 28 2.8CZ needs the removal of the front ring ( the one with the serial number on) to get at the adjusters. I've ordered a special rubber friction tool to remove this and will write it up in the near future.

May 25, 2006 at 01:41 PM
jjlphoto
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p.1 #13 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Don- I'm gonna take a stab at why the 50/1.4 is different than the rest, (no offense intended).
I believe that lens was the kit lens for one of the RTS packages, and it is no secret that Zeiss and Kyocera sparred over production issues. From what I've read here, that lens is one that always seems to be in need of servicing/adjustment.

May 25, 2006 at 01:51 PM
Duncan Staples
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p.1 #14 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Shirozina - I would be interested in how to remove the grip and adjust the screws as well. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.

Duncan

May 25, 2006 at 02:42 PM
Don Clary
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p.1 #15 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


It sounds like shirozina's method is easier, if it works with your Zeiss lens (if you can get the rubber up, and if you know how much to adjust). I had no looseness issues with my 3 F-S adapters. Jameel did the mounting and testing, so he should comment about the tightness of the adjusted Fotodiox adapters.

Moritz and Duncan - if you want me to adjust your adapters I will try it (any adapter different than F-S or Fotodiox will be a learning curve). I don't plan to make a business of it, but I will do it at no charge for the FM community. I own the proper tools and it doesn't take very long to do it.

May 25, 2006 at 03:26 PM
Don Clary
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p.1 #16 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


John,
I didn't expand the slots in the Contax side bayonet. Jameel didn't comment to me about any tightness problem.

May 25, 2006 at 03:41 PM
shirozina
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p.1 #17 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


A word of caution on the 50/1.7 - the 3 screws only have to be undone a slight amount - too much and the thread disengages and you will have to get the front ring off to sort it out. Also it's possible to calculate how much needs adjusting but I have forgoten the formula - with a wide lens the movement needed to change focus between 10m and infinity is only a few microns -not something you can easily shave off evenly but a few mm rotational adjustment on the helical effects the same result. Having the infinity stop bang on is IMO very important - while I was setting up my I could not accuratley focus it at infinity even with my 2.5x angle finder and on a tripod - however looking at the screen shots of the images at 2.8 there was a big difference in sharpness between bang on infinity and just the smallest overshoot - this also showed up right up to F11. Trying to focus accuratley in the field without a physical stop on wides is likely to be even harder. I did some comparisons with my 16-35L and was amazed how good the AF is on the 5D - bang on everytime and much more accurate than manual methods. However good these old time classic lenses are we will never see the full potential unless the focus is bang on.

May 25, 2006 at 03:50 PM
jjlphoto
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p.1 #18 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


Don- what are F-S adapters?

Did either of you do any corner comparisons to verify that brand adpaters were properly centered? I have noticed that with such a tight circle of illumination, a poorly made adapter that is off center by a hair can cause one of the corners to exhibit poor detail as it's now closer to the edge of that circle

May 25, 2006 at 04:19 PM
shirozina
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p.1 #19 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


jjlphoto wrote:
Don- what are F-S adapters?

Did either of you do any corner comparisons to verify that brand adpaters were properly centered? I have noticed that with such a tight circle of illumination, a poorly made adapter that is off center by a hair can cause one of the corners to exhibit poor detail as it's now closer to the edge of that circle

The projected image circle is not that tight and even a pretty large machining error of .5mm would be insignificant - what is more likely to throw a corner off is a non parrallel focusing plane due to an unevenly machined (altered)adaptor, a loose adaptor letting gravity pull the lens mount away from true, worn or loose helical threads in the focusig mech doing the same or bad alignment of the optics in the manufacturing stage or damage subsequently in previous ownership. Precision machining and manufacturing are well within the capabilities of Chinese industry - infact as maufacturing shifts from west to east they are likely to be able to do it better than we can.

May 25, 2006 at 04:34 PM
cyberstudio
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p.1 #20 · Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses


craig_oz_land wrote:
Great work Don.

Your figures suggest that 1.4mm is pretty close to the correct difference.

That is 0.1mm less than the Contax - Canon published specs and seems to be in the ballpark of what a lot of others are finding. It would be interesting to know where the 0.1mm difference creeped in as this is surely too big a tolerance than both of these manufacturers would be working to.

regards.


Canon's tolerance is 0.02mm or 0.03mm, didn't remember which, for the mount registration distances. Contax is probably in the same ballpark.

We keep on referring to the term "film-to-flange" distance, when the ISO film channel is 0.2mm thick. Are we referring to the front of the film channel, the back of the film channel, or some point in between? There are therefore 3 mount registration distances. You always measure from the mount, but you can go to the outer film rails, the inner film rails, or some hypothetical point where the film emulsion is believed to be. The lens is designed to focus at that hypothetical point.

A film Canon is hard to find these days, but if you have all of these: a micrometer, a film Canon and a Contax, do your own meausrements and let us know if they differ by exactly 1.5mm. Otherwise, we can look up the service manuals and always be very specific about which registration distance we are talking about when making comparisons.

For digital sensors, the situation is even more complicated. We know anti-aliasing, infrared, bayer pattern filters, microlenses all have refractive indexes which would require a longer registration distance to compensate. The bayer pattern with microlenses is particularly problematic, since lenses have longitudinal chromatic abberation. Do we measure from the mount to the AA filter? The surface of the silicon? Or the microlenses? Or the middle of the pixel well? And once obtaining that measurement how to compensate for the refractive elements and convert that to a free-air registration distance?

May 25, 2006 at 05:47 PM
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