Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

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Archive 2006 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

bigreen505
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p.18 #1 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

Andy,

Try the 100/3.5 against the Canon 85L. While not apples to apples, possibly a better match.

May 01, 2006 at 07:33 PM

ajmichael
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p.18 #2 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

rljones wrote:
Your 'mirror lock up' sounds similar to something I experienced on early model Zork adapters with the newer 1D bodies.

Ah sorry - I meant that I deliberately locked the mirror up before each shot to reduce shake! And why do Canon hide it in the murky depths of the custom function menu?

Andy

May 01, 2006 at 07:48 PM

ajmichael
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p.18 #3 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

bigreen505 wrote:
Andy,

Try the 100/3.5 against the Canon 85L. While not apples to apples, possibly a better match.

I don't have one, I'm afraid - just the 50mm f4, 80mm f2.8 and the 150mm f4. I'm interested as to why you think it might be a better match, though? At the apertures I use most of the time with flash (f8 and above) the 85mm f1.2L and 80mm f2.8 CF T* seem pretty similar, although I think I prefer the Zeiss colour. But back to Guy's original question, if the two lenses seem to give the same resolution at f8 and above, have I just hit the limit of the 1Ds2's sensor?

Andy

May 01, 2006 at 07:55 PM

bigreen505
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p.18 #4 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

Mostly just hersey, but I've heard more than a few people say they prefer the 100 and 180 to the 80 and 150. I only have minimal experience with the 80, 150, 180 and 250, so I'm afraid I'm not much help. I think the lens I was thinking of when I made that comment is actually the FE 110/2, which may be very cool on a Canon, but would not be much use on your 'blad.

May 01, 2006 at 08:12 PM

Andi Dietrich
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p.18 #5 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

The Zeiss lenses for the HB can't be a reason to switch to the H system, they do very well in the digital world. I do well understand that one wishs to go to a new system offering AF and that stuff. But for quality and design the oldy is still a great deal of a camerasystem. I think it is more about shootingstyle and not quality.

Andy, I would suggest you should double the file size and look then at the given quality. The best lenses will show then their microcontrast abbility. my 5 rp

May 01, 2006 at 11:54 PM

sundstei
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p.18 #6 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

netexpress wrote:
I had no idea Lego owned Phase One. I don't get the connection there. I just think of those great building block

May 02, 2006 at 11:07 PM

ClubShooter
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p.18 #7 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

I've been considering a used scanning back -- a BetterLight or PhaseOne PowerPhase, but can't convince myself I can use these for landscape photography in the field with a PowerBook. For one thing, they're SCSI, and I don't know if either of these will work with a FireWire/SCSI adapter -- I have a 2Wave one I use with my Imacon scanner, and it works fine (except is very RF sensitive and will get flakey around cell phones and 802.11, so I have to shut off AirPort in my PowerBook and keep the cell phone in a different room when running scans, but that makes it 100% reliable) -- but I don't know if will work with the scanning backs. Second, I can't see anywhere how they're powered, I certainly don't have 110VAC around. Third, the controllers look like pretty big bricks to haul around in addition to a PowerBook. Finally, I don't know if I will need totally new lenses for, or if my Apo-Sironar-S 150 and Nikkor-SW 75/4.5 will do.

I'm very interested in shooting with a digital view camera, but given how relatively cheap 4x5 film photography is, how much less hassle in the field, the quality of the scans from my Imacon, and the problems a scanning back has with moving subjects (I do a lot coastal landscapes with wave motion), I find it difficult to sink $4000-$6000 into this just to check it out. I have this nagging feeling the generation of gear currently available in this price range just isn't going to work very well and will be so impractical in the field that after the novelty wears off it'll be too much hassle to use.

I hope someone can show me I'm wrong in all this!

May 02, 2006 at 11:29 PM

Kit Laughlin
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p.18 #8 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

Andy wrote:

And why do Canon hide it in the murky depths of the custom function menu?

After using the DMR on a product shoot recenty, I realised that Canon's approach has something going for it. On the DMR, you CAN set mirror lock-up on the body, to be sure, but if you want to combine it with the Timer function to really minimise shake on a tripod (the way I shoot products),on the Canon you can (and save Timer, Mirror lock-up and anything else) to the Custom function place on the mode dial).

On the DMR, you have to set the Timer each shot...

OTOH, as someone mentioned recently, you can use any screw-in cable release on the DMR, and that's what I ended up doing. If someone knows how to set the timer function on the DMR so that the 2" delay is autmomatically engaged each time you trip the shutter, I'd be grateful! cheers, Kit

May 03, 2006 at 12:08 AM

wil_ret
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p.18 #9 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

I just came from the Sinar M camera launch here in Sydney.
Wow that's a big mother of a camera and you better have your checkbook handy!
I was quoted $12.000 AUD for the 40mm wide angle lens.
A standard kit,body with an 80 can be had for a mere $25.000 AUD.
O yes ,I almost forgot,you still need a digital back.
My estimate is for a four lens Sinar M kit with the eMotion 75 , you are looking at over
the $100.000 AUD mark!
Any taker?
Are you reading this Guy?
Cheers,
Willem.

May 03, 2006 at 01:54 AM

wil_ret
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p.18 #10 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

O yes,
in case you wander!

http://www.sinar.ch/sinar/kamera/e_html/e_m.htm

Best,
WR.

May 03, 2006 at 01:57 AM

glowrider
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p.18 #11 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

12,000AUD for a 40mm lens? That's 9200USD. I'll tell them where they can stick it...

May 03, 2006 at 02:10 AM

netexpress
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p.18 #12 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

glowrider wrote:
12,000AUD for a 40mm lens? That's 9200USD. I'll tell them where they can stick it...

Yeah but David, the lenses come with that little red "T*" on them!!! You gotta get one!

May 03, 2006 at 03:26 AM

netexpress
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p.18 #13 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

wil_ret wrote:
I just came from the Sinar M camera launch here in Sydney.
Wow that's a big mother of a camera and you better have your checkbook handy!
I was quoted $12.000 AUD for the 40mm wide angle lens.
A standard kit,body with an 80 can be had for a mere $25.000 AUD.
O yes ,I almost forgot,you still need a digital back.
My estimate is for a four lens Sinar M kit with the eMotion 75 , you are looking at over
the $100.000 AUD mark!
Any taker?
Are you reading this Guy?
Cheers,
Willem.

Yeah but does it have IS and the little print button on it?

May 03, 2006 at 03:28 AM

netexpress
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p.18 #14 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

sundstei wrote:
netexpress wrote:
I had no idea Lego owned Phase One. I don't get the connection there. I just think of those great building block

!

They are not...

There is an investment from Kirkbi AS a venture company connected to Lego, as well as 4 other venture companies. In addition several key personel has substantial share ownership.

Erik
http://forum.i-shoot-people.com

Here we go:
In 1994 Phase One was acquired by one of the leading venture capital companies in Denmark. Today ownership is divided between Phase One employees and 5 venture capital companies, one of which is Kirkbi, associated with the LEGO® Group, the world renowned manufacturer of children’s toys.

May 03, 2006 at 03:39 AM

netexpress
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p.18 #15 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

ClubShooter wrote:
I've been considering a used scanning back -- a BetterLight or PhaseOne PowerPhase, but can't convince myself I can use these for landscape photography in the field with a PowerBook. For one thing, they're SCSI, and I don't know if either of these will work with a FireWire/SCSI adapter -- I have a 2Wave one I use with my Imacon scanner, and it works fine (except is very RF sensitive and will get flakey around cell phones and 802.11, so I have to shut off AirPort in my PowerBook and keep the cell phone in a different room when running scans, but that makes it 100% reliable) -- but I don't know if will work with the scanning backs. Second, I can't see anywhere how they're powered, I certainly don't have 110VAC around. Third, the controllers look like pretty big bricks to haul around in addition to a PowerBook. Finally, I don't know if I will need totally new lenses for, or if my Apo-Sironar-S 150 and Nikkor-SW 75/4.5 will do.

I'm very interested in shooting with a digital view camera, but given how relatively cheap 4x5 film photography is, how much less hassle in the field, the quality of the scans from my Imacon, and the problems a scanning back has with moving subjects (I do a lot coastal landscapes with wave motion), I find it difficult to sink $4000-$6000 into this just to check it out. I have this nagging feeling the generation of gear currently available in this price range just isn't going to work very well and will be so impractical in the field that after the novelty wears off it'll be too much hassle to use.

I hope someone can show me I'm wrong in all this!

Jan, you may want to give Jack Flescher at buzz. He’s been using a Betterlight scanning back on his 4x5:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10492&hl=scanning

Note his ending comment:
====================
DISCLAIMER: Note that the verdict is still out as to whether or not I am going to be willing to deal with the hassles incumbent to using this system in the field and therefore I am NOT recommending this as a viable digital capture solution for all photographers. The commitment required to use a view camera is significant to begin with and adding a tethered back re-doubles that commitment IMO.
====================
The results seem impressive for a static landscape. But it’s not my cup of tea personally. Too much stuff to cart around as it is – this looks downright exhausting. And the fact that the landscape has to be totally devoid of motion just kills it for me. A scanning back would be great for art reproduction or archiving artifacts but I wouldn’t want to do landscape with it. If you need his contact info let me know and I can get it for you.

May 03, 2006 at 03:54 AM

ClubShooter
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p.18 #16 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

Thanks for the pointer Roland, kinda sounds like what I've been suspecting.

Do you know which Cooke Jack's using, the new triple convertible XVa? That's one nice looking lens, just a tad long for 4x5 for my tastes (273 to 646mm in the various combinations). If I shot 8x10 or bigger I'd get one in a heartbeat.

I'd love an F Metric...

May 03, 2006 at 04:58 AM

ClubShooter
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p.18 #17 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

On closer reading seems like he's shooting some other Cooke.

I'd love a R-D Artar! Expensive, though...

May 03, 2006 at 06:29 AM

collum
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p.18 #18 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

Jack has the new Cooke PS945 soft focus lens, not their convertable. There was an initial run of 50 made, and they're on their second run (betterlight owns #58, i think Jack's is around this number plus or minus 1 )

May 03, 2006 at 06:53 AM

collum
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p.18 #19 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

I've been shooting landscapes with a Betterlight for a few years now. it has it's shortcomings, but so does 4x5. not much more weight than llugging an 8x10 kit around. (if you're using their new usb outfit). I hauled mine over to Cambodia and Thailand for 3 weeks last year. You can look at some of the images at

betterlight blog

there are also examples of shooting with the Cooke on that site

jim

May 03, 2006 at 07:09 AM

ClubShooter
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p.18 #20 · Re: MF digital backs. The dilemma

collum wrote:
I hauled mine over to Cambodia and Thailand for 3 weeks last year.

Clearly you're crazier than most people!

Nice shots Jim, as always!

Still looking for a deal on a BetterLight to try it out.

May 03, 2006 at 08:14 AM

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