Why must Canon 'match' Nikon with that camera. Canon already surpass Nikon with other cameras.
Have you ever thought that maybe NIKON has to match or pass Canon for a change. And maybe they did with the D200. The 1Ds MkII is considered the best you can get.
See, now we're coming down to the REAL issue here. Canon users are upset that they haven't stolen the headlines.
Maybe I've been misread.... "For the market" it IS a great camera. Whats missing, 2 Megapixels? Amateurs don't need it.
Blowout wrote:
NO.....is not the perfect camera....the Nikon D200.....OK! is the CAMERA!
so if Canon match the Nikon with a new sensor and new resolution we get going........CANON HAS TO MATCH THE NIKON OR MORE!
not just to BS the 20D.with little crap.
The noise performance an higher ISO on the Canon is better than that of the D200. I wouldn't want to sacrifice that in some idiotic megapixel race.
The BS is that Canon has to play one upsmanship just to satisfy the instant gratification requirements of some whiners on the internet. Cameras better than the D200 already exist in the Canon lineup. You want a Canon that's better, you can have it, but you have to pony up the price of admission. TNSTAAFL
Or...
Perhaps, if you can wait, the future will bring something from Canon you'll find more to your liking.
Or...
If you think the D-200 is so great, go buy one and then you can complain about noise, banding and whatever else is being complained about this week.
It boils down to a simple answer - if you want what the 30D offers, you'll buy it. If you don't, then you won't buy it. Some will, some won't. ONe person's situation doesn't equal another's.
The constant complaining about whether it's better than the D200 or not isn't relevent.
See, now we're coming down to the REAL issue here. Canon users are upset that they haven't stolen the headlines
That is the bottem line with the dissapointment Canon users have with regards to the 30d. A few months back when the D200 was released we all heard "Wait until PMA where Canon will annihilate Nikon with the D200 killer". We also had the big run up to the release with all the speculation and wishful thinking. Get on with life. Enjoy photography and get yourselves out of the Canon versus Nikon race.
cogitech wrote:
I'd really pitty you if you had to use a 350D then.
You aught to try the 20D with the grip. People say it is ugly and what not, but my wife and I find it gives balance and comfort.
I don't deserve any pity compared to people with real disabilities, but it has gotten to the point where I cannot comfortably tighten the legs on a Gitzo. The 1Ds MK II is gripable, but not as comfortable as the 1v and booster. 30 years ago I probably would have not complained about holding a 20D in one hand with a 300/2.8 hanging off of it. :lol:
I don't shoot fast sports.
I don't shoot in dark places.
I don't shoot professionally.
I don't upgrade just because a new camera comes out.
At the moment, I've got all the camera I NEED. What I WANT is more time to use it.
Regards
Nigel
I agree with that, but idiots on ebay make it to easy. I started with a Digital Rebel. I bought a 10D from someone here after teh 20D had been out for a while because of the absurd prices people were still paying paying on ebay for Digital Rebels. I upgraded to a 10D for $50.00. Later on i bought another 10D here that had recently been serviced/cleaned by Cannon with a bunch of other things (grip, charger, batteries ect) to see if I liked any of the things that came with it. I essentially bought it whole and sold the pieces. I kept teh essentially new camera, and sold my usual sut in the viewfinder on ebay for another absurd ammount, and made almost $200.00 on the whole deal. It was too easy. a few months later after prowling the buy/sell forum constantly, a mint 8 month old (reciept to prove it) 20D showed up and I bought it.
It was a round about way of doing things, but I got to know a few accesories and sold them for more than I paid, and ended up $12.00 ahead buying the 20D I have now even after all of the ebay fees. Of course I bought Extreme III cards, but it was not necessary, just logical.
You can benifit from the "arms race", and you can always depend on fruits showing up on ebay (I noticed today people are buying i-pods for more money than you can get them from apple with free engraving).
I don't see a way to get to a 30D with out paying for it though.
chez wrote:
That is the bottem line with the dissapointment Canon users have with regards to the 30d. A few months back when the D200 was released we all heard "Wait until PMA where Canon will annihilate Nikon with the D200 killer". We also had the big run up to the release with all the speculation and wishful thinking. Get on with life. Enjoy photography and get yourselves out of the Canon versus Nikon race.
That is most definitely NOT the reason for the disappointment myself and many others feel. I really couldn't give a toss about the D200 as my investment in Canon gear should point out and neither do I feel the 30D is a poor camera for the money.
My disappointment stems from Canon yet again failing to broaden the range of APS cameras upwards and downwards. I've got a couple of friends who'd like a dslr and can't really afford, or need, a 350D. How about a low end body to get people into the system? Canons bottom spec camera is a pretty high-spec bit of kit with few compromises. Its also more expensive than the competition.
Importantly for me, Canon failed to release a weather-sealed, tough, high spec APS body. I'm personally tired of this amazingly arrogant opinion that all pros MUST want a FF camera. APS crop cameras have many advantages of their own and an extremely broad appeal. All I wanted was some balance to the range instead of the too close in spec and price 20(30)D and 350D.
Replacing the 85L didn't help either. Nice but who was really crying out for it and how many would have chosen it in light of more important gaps in the range?
My problem was I waiting till the new camera came out to replace the 20D. Now it is out and where is it? Still waiting for someone to carry it so I can buy it...I like the the price.-Rich
Mick, can I say thats a better post than what you've said previous. I think you've articulated it better this time around. Thats not meant to sound condescending, so I hope you don't take it that way. I think the problem you'll find here is Canons marketing path. "35mm sensors are the way to go". Just ask them. Its eluded to in their papers.
They've invested heavily, money AND reputation, on it. In terms of the 350D, I guess they were hoping to sit just above the "entry level" market with a technically better camera than the others. They will never bring out a lower spec'd model. Again, its all to do with the direction they've decided to take. (who the hell designed that thing, btw)
But hey, I could be wrong. They could bring out an entry level camera and a 3D.
Personally I think the 30D is as good as you can go in this price range. It was the camera I wanted when I bought the 20D. Options like spot-meter, larger buffer, and rgb histogram will not even be used by a large number of 20D/30D users, but for those who do want them, it's a major plus. If you want noticeably superior resolution or weather-sealing, you have to go to the 5D/1D range.
Coming from an EOS 5(A2e) to a 20D, I thought the histogram might make up for lack of spotmeter, but I still would often use it if I could.
I always shoot raw, so the 6 image buffer at 5fps is limiting. 11fps will be much more helpful.
Virtually everything else that is changed is useful too, but not major. If I can get a good return on my 20D I'd be very tempted to have a 30D.
If you want noticeably superior resolution or weather-sealing, you have to go to the 5D/1D range.
Nikon did it with their latest offering, I was hoping for it this time. Will they do it, maybe not, but it isn't impossible for this pirce range.
I agree with the buffer, I found out that the 10D buffer is actually larger with RAW only to the 20D when I switched (WTF). With 5 fps it goes by pretty quick when something interesting is happening.
Weather sealing, ISO, selectable fps, quieter operation, brighter viewfinder, 1.6x and 10mp with evolved sensor. This is what I wanted. I got most of it, but hopefully the rest will come later. HTere is no real reason for more MP, but I would rather have more MP with 1.6x so I can crop heavier because $500-$1000 is alot less than a big telephoto.
I could go eitherway on the larger LCD. It would be helpful, particularly reading tiny font in bright sunlight on the menus, but it could also run your battery down looking at it the same ammount of time vs the smaller LCD. Apparently the battery is better to, so maybe it won't matter.
Seems like no one is considering the improvement in noise on the 30D compared to the 10D or 20D.
The camera is not out yet, but isn't there a good possibility that there will be an improvement (even a small one at that) in high ISO noise levels (similar to 5D) on the new body. That alone would be a worthwhile buy.
I don't know, a small improvement at high ISO would be more dangerous than anything. WIth ISO 800 on a 20D and a 2.8 lens I'm already tripping over shiz in the dark.
Though I suppose this is where a 1/3 stop might be useful, to step in somewhere between 800 and 1600.
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