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Archive 2006 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any differe...

pchaplo
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p.1 #1 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

I shoot aerials - at infinity distance of course - f/8 almost always. I use a 50mm lens a lot! Im ready to sink some buxs into flights, and having realized how much I shoot in this range, I wondering if I should get a Zeiss, but I have a lot of 50mm's in my lens drawer!

Givens:
1Ds
I have a sharp 50mm Canon EF f/1.8 .

Digging through my film gear, I also find:
Olympus 50mm f/1.8 mint - I hardly used it.
Nikon 50mm f/1.8 D like new.

....and I could easily pick up a Zeiss (CZ). Thats the great thing about 50's - they are everywhere!

Do any of these lenses have superior performance in terms of flare or subtle quality of the image?

I do not have EOS adapters for all of them, thats why Im asking. Frankly, just in terms of the way I shoot, Id rather have a very contrasty manual focus that is rugged. Are they all quite flare resistant due to the simple optics designs of 50mm's?

Are there really any differences in the image quality between these lenses in terms of the subjective "feel" of the image?

After looking at Mark's 16-9 tests of other focal lengths and even zooms, I see: generally speaking Nikon and Canon can be sharp, but there are subtle differences in the image quality. Right now, I want stark, antiseptic sharpness like a scalpel. Warmth/coolness is not important as I convert to B&W. But is a Zeiss any different than my plastic wonder Canon f/1.8?

And if so, is there a Zeiss version that is superior? f/1.7 or f/1.4 ? Remember, I shoot mostly at f/8, but sometimes down to f/4 ...never wide open, always at infinity.

Paul

Feb 01, 2006 at 10:02 AM

kosmoskatten
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p.1 #2 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

Hi Paul, though the 50mm's are pretty easy to make and I have yet to see a real dog of a lens in that category there are differences for sure, some subtle and some significant.

You'll see a difference in contrast, probably in sharpness wide open and also how the out of focus rendering is (bokeh). Stopped down most normal lenses are great. Wide open some really suck.

Both Zeiss 50mm's are great (1.7 and 1.4) performers. I preferred the 1.4 only because it focuses closer.

Pentax also makes great 50mm's, as do Leica, I'll even say that Canon 50/1.8 is very good.
I can't think of any real bad ones, my all time favourite was a Konica Hexanon 40/1.8 ...
... but there are some that aren't spectacular for sure...

Anyone else?

Edited by kosmoskatten on Feb 01, 2006 at 03:16 PM GMT

Feb 01, 2006 at 01:29 PM

Brambling
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p.1 #3 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

canon 50mm 2.5 macro is often overlooked for infinity focussing work

In my limited testing under f8 or greater than f16 the Canon macro out performed the Zeiss, otherwise the Zeiss 1.7 nudges ahead in it's sweet spot.

I've not used the Canon 1.4 or 1.8 but went staright to the macro as focus speed is not of importance for me

Mike

Feb 01, 2006 at 01:59 PM

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p.1 #4 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

The Contax Zeiss 1.4 and 1.7 are superb lenses, but those lenses have the most sample variations of any lenses I have ever seen. IOW, you have to buy a bunch to find the perfect one, or plan on sending it to Zeiss to alignment. But for those who have found one, they are better than gold.

Feb 01, 2006 at 02:01 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.1 #5 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

If you are into aerials I suggest the Leica macro Elmarit 60/2.8 - it has very low distortion and holds sharpness out to the edges at all apertures - in my opinion a better choice than any 50mm for that application. I use mine a lot and sometimes I miss having a fast aperture lens for indoor use but for outside I have yet to be let down by the 60 macro.

Feb 01, 2006 at 02:18 PM

hubsand
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p.1 #6 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

It's an aperture thing: most 50mm outresolve a 1Ds II centre frame at f4, but only the best (Zeiss, Leica, Canon Macro) have critically sharp corners. Conversely, at f16, many expensive standard lenses are outperformed by much cheaper optics.

Personally, I have the CZ50mm f1.4 for wide aperture / drop focus work and the Canon 50mm Macro for small aperture stuff (it goes to f32). The pair cost a lot less than a Leica - but the Summicron is an ideal one lens solution for those with deeper pockets, and Leicaphiles generally.

Feb 01, 2006 at 03:51 PM

pchaplo
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p.1 #7 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

most 50mm outresolve a 1Ds II centre frame at f4

They outresolve the MarkII at f/4 and its an aperture thing? Mark, are you saying that at f/4 and smaller apertures like f/8, that even a 1DsMarkII cannot keep up with the resolving power of most 50mm's? Please clarify - very dense and informative posts - like eating cheesecake

Paul

Feb 01, 2006 at 04:29 PM

pchaplo
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p.1 #8 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

One thing about doing aerials is you need a more high contrast and saturation in your lenses because the light looks more flat coming from above.

Guy, that is so true & why, with film, I used to shoot alot of Velvia - that contrasty punch is needed! Same with the lens.

Can you give me the details on the mount/ exact model that I need. I dont know anything about Leica's and I know that you are a devotee

Paul

Feb 01, 2006 at 04:34 PM

pchaplo
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p.1 #9 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

Leica macro Elmarit 60/2.8

Thats interesting? What exact model/mount is best for adapting to Canon EOS/EF?

Brainstorming:
What about the CZ 45mm Tessar (or 40mm - Im checking)? What is the difference in the designs Planar vs. Tessar? Has anyone tried one?

Paul

Feb 01, 2006 at 04:39 PM

jjlphoto
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p.1 #10 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

The CZ45 (the famous pancake) must have some sort of wierd cult following that I haven't found yet. Don't know why they even make it.

From the Zeiss site:

Tessar:
Based on special high refractive glass types invented by Schott glass works and a lens design by Dr. Paul Rudolph the Tessar® lens became world famous for its sharpness: "the eagle eye of your camera". The original Tessar® lens is a 4-element design – this is expressed by that name, referring to the Greek word 'tessares', which means 'four'.The Tessar® approach leads to compact lenses with low weight. The Tessar® design is the preferred approach, when weight and bulk need to be kept low, which is always desirable with long telephoto lenses of 350 mm and beyond.

Planar:
The famous symmetric lens design invented by Dr. Paul Rudolph at Carl Zeiss in 1896. The Planar® lens is the most successful camera lens design – and, by the way, the most plagiarized – ever created. It provides the lens designer with numerous means to correct aberrations extraordinarily well. And its performance is very constant over a wide range of imaging ratios, enabling such a versatile lens variety as the Makro-Planar® lens. The ideal basis for high-performance lenses with great color correction, high speed, flat image plane (this is where the name comes from) and low distortion. The Planar® design is the basis for nearly all professional "workhorse" lenses on earth and in space today, and for the fastest lenses ever created.

Feb 01, 2006 at 04:45 PM

pchaplo
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p.1 #11 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

A bit off my own topic, but is a red colored [edited to correct name] DSLRexchange adapter a "good one" for a Zeiss>EOS?

Didnt some of these have problems as they didnt have the stop to prevent over-rotation and breaking the 1ds AF microswitch. (yes, I know where mine is and what it looks like; my early Zork had problem with this!)

Paul

Edited by pchaplo on Feb 02, 2006 at 01:35 AM GMT

Feb 01, 2006 at 04:46 PM

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p.1 #12 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

The EF Compact-Macro is a great lens, really in the same league as the Summicron-R 50 in real world terms (my opininion only), but it would hardly be what I'd consider "ruggedly built" so I would probably nix that option (very excellent lens though... maybe my current favorite). The Summicron-R 50 f2 goes for about $200-300 which, while more than most other options, is quite reasonable IMO. I find this to be a completely faultless lens in all respects and it does have that "something extra" in rendering qualities that makes it "special" for me (the Compact-Macro also has a "special" charactoristic that I like as well). Stopped down your EF 50/1.8 should be quite good as well though, so I don't know how much improvement you will actually see in your results...

Feb 01, 2006 at 05:09 PM

jjlphoto
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p.1 #13 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

One pancake user found it awkward to use as it is too slim to grasp quickly when you are behind the eyepiece. IOW, easily gets paw prints on the glass as you fumble your away around.

Feb 01, 2006 at 05:14 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.1 #14 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

When you go below 50mm I think you might have a bit more of an issue with distortion, at least compared to the Canon 50 macro or the Leica 60 macro. My experience is with the latter (and quite a few other macro normals as well) and I am not enough technically inclined to give you distortion numbers on it but I can't spot it and according to mr Erwin Puts the 60 is the best "normal" lens leica has made in terms of both distortion and sharpness if you can sacrifice the lack of a fast aperture and can live with 2.8 I'd go for it.

The leica 60 has AFAIK no optical changes to it from its introduction but I think later ones have a common filter thread whereas my one has E60 (odd). I don't use a filter on it anyway and the front lens is recessed as they are on many macros so a protective filter is not really necessary.

The Canon 50/2.5 macro is supposedly a great lens, I have no reasons to doubt it but I can wager that the Leica is superbly built, absolutely top notch. My lens is an old bat but still is smooth and firm and a pure pleasure. I have only felt up the Canon macro once but it wasn't nice to focus manually (as I prefer to do with macro).

I actually had the Zeiss 45/2.8 pancake lens but didn't like it - it was neither here nor there but it was plenty sharp.

Feb 01, 2006 at 07:01 PM

pchaplo
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p.1 #15 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

Questions:

Im looking a Zeiss f/1.4 w/adapter $235 - trying to find out which adapter.
Also, CZ f/1.7: $175 with adapter. Is the 1.4 sharper at f/4?

That 50mm Summicron - that is the R mount? Hand holding needed here

Hmmm, I cant find one. KEH changed their site - I so used to that dorky design ;-) I got attached...

JohnLuke,
Thanks for the information on optics. Interesting - I didnt know that.

I have to duck out for a while - deadlines call !

Paul

Feb 01, 2006 at 07:43 PM

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p.1 #16 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductList.aspx

(they seem to have raised their prices on the Summicrons)

The CZ/1.7 have been going much cheaper on eBay lately.

From what I've seen the CZs produce more of a "WOW!" factor and the Summicron more of an "oooooohhhhh" factor... if that means anything to you

Feb 01, 2006 at 08:16 PM

pchaplo
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p.1 #17 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

From what I've seen the CZs produce more of a "WOW!" factor and the Summicron more of an "oooooohhhhh" factor... if that means anything to you

is there a 50mm that will produce an
"ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh" ? or even a "mmmmmmmmmmmm" ?

It does make sense - I live in the land of extreme subtleties. -Paul

Feb 01, 2006 at 09:15 PM

pchaplo
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p.1 #18 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

O my own topic:
Are Kawaphoto adapters junk? for CZ lenses: 50mm and 28mm to EOS body (1Ds).

Paul

Feb 01, 2006 at 09:19 PM

adamM
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p.1 #19 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

My favorite ariel machine has to be the Fujinon GW690 III 6x9 camera.

It's a weird beast - rangefinder, fixed lens... But it's 6x9 cm of negative and an amazing lens on the front..

For when your aerial shots count, there's little replacement for 6x9 cm's of velvia.

Another plus, it's rather small for the size of the neg, and definitely hand holdable in a small cockpit. The polycarbonate body is light, the viewfinder for a rangefinder is decent and the handling is superb.

I shot every week for a few years out of a Robinson R22 with the door off. Many combos of lens and camera were tried. Nothing came close to the Fujinon GW 690 III.

Maybe worth a look if you're serious into aerial. You can get one for around $800-900 used.

Cheers,
/A

Feb 01, 2006 at 10:21 PM

RobertP
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p.1 #20 · 50mm: Canon Zeiss Nikon Oly - is there really any difference?

I remember a test that was posted here maybe almost a year ago, that showed at infinity, f/8, the Canon macro beat the Zeiss and Oly in the center and corners, but I forgot which Zeiss it was...

Anyway, it seems the Canon macro is quite a "forgotten" lens in the lineup.

Feb 02, 2006 at 12:11 AM

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