How many make their living as photographers?

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1fstwrx
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p.1 #1 · How many make their living as photographers?

So, I have been thinking a lot, and working at a fuji mini lab and printing all my own stuff, learning more photoshop, scanning slides, and pushing my love for photography further and further I have contemplated a bachelors in photography or at least an AA, and interning with some local photogs. How many of you make your living as a photographer and how many would recommend it? I know I am not ready now, but think I have the tenacity and love for it (like so many others on this forum)

I talked to a man who makes his living as a photog the other day and his words of wisdom were, "the problem is, 10% of the photogs make 90% of the money" which I know is probably true, but making a living and making 90% of the money are two totally different things.

I know I am probably insane for wanting to make a living of this, especially since I am almost done with a MA in clinical psychology, but...doing it every day and making money doing what I love,well that is what everyone is looking for right?

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 07:10 AM

jasin
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p.1 #2 · How many make their living as photographers?

If you have the talent go out and do it!
If you have both the photographic skills and the business apptitude then you will be succesful.
90% of my job is actually knowing when to walk away from an image leaving you open further down the track the grab that cracker!
The 90% 10% theory is true but an even truer point is that most of the 90% not making any money probably should have stuck to using their gift as their hobby.
Do I make money from my photography?
Well yeah I do and although I am one of those 10%ers I also envey those great photographers that shoot as a hobby.
I rarely get to shoot for my self and so to all you shooters out there that do let me just say I am jealous.
Cheers,
Jasin.

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 07:34 AM

Fundy
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p.1 #3 · How many make their living as photographers?

Nov 09, 2005 at 07:48 AM

genghis45
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p.1 #4 · How many make their living as photographers?

1fstwrx wrote:
So, I have been thinking a lot, and working at a fuji mini lab and printing all my own stuff, learning more photoshop, scanning slides, and pushing my love for photography further and further I have contemplated a bachelors in photography or at least an AA, and interning with some local photogs. How many of you make your living as a photographer and how many would recommend it? I know I am not ready now, but think I have the tenacity and love for it (like so many others on this forum)

I talked to a man who makes his living as a photog the other day and his words of wisdom were, "the problem is, 10% of the photogs make 90% of the money" which I know is probably true, but making a living and making 90% of the money are two totally different things.

I know I am probably insane for wanting to make a living of this, especially since I am almost done with a MA in clinical psychology, but...doing it every day and making money doing what I love,well that is what everyone is looking for right?

***********************************************************

Since 1969. However, it's far easier for a younger person to break into the business because the young have the buffer of time on their side. How old are you?

Scott

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 11:19 AM

ajacobs2
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p.1 #5 · How many make their living as photographers?

Interesting because all of this is true.

In almost any profession a certain percentage makes most of the money.

I have heard this used in tele-marketing, ( I shot an ad for one company) car salesman ( I do a lot of brochures) and it probably applies to any business with a commission structure.

Yes weddings are a commission structure, you are basically paying yourself. What is the net paycheck for some one who gets no bookings...zero. PJ work, what is the netpaycheck if none of your stuff gets published. That minimum wage stringer paycheck doesn't cover too much these days.

No business is easy but photography is unique in one sense. It's very diversified. There's alot of it that might appeal to you that you can do but being an artist is one thing, being a starving artist is a totally different thing. So you have to mix the fine art with the wedding game and product work.

The key is being a self-starter, a good business person, trained and diciplined.
If not you will wind up in the 80% that don't make it.

Shooting is part of the game, being an equipment nut is great, go sell cameras. Knowing everything about weddings, become a wedding planner. Shoot sports well at the HS level, go to the real world and see the competition at the higher sports levels, see what gets published and what names are there under the pictures. Most of the time its the 20%.

Pick up a two year old phone book, pull out the photo section and compare it to the new book. You'll see how many tried and failed not because they knew the modes on a Canon 20D but because they lacked business sense and a sense of direction.

I agree, 20% make 80 % of the good money in this business and like the movie said that 20% had the 'right stuff" With that said, the 20% that make it are the ones that are talented and tough.

It's competitive out there. I wish you well and Good Luck

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 02:02 PM

rffffffff
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p.1 #6 · How many make their living as photographers?

a successful photography company seemingly relies on a love for marketing more than a love for photography... You really need to understand business more than how to make the camera work, and work harder at selling yourself than at taking pictures, in some sense...

a great photographer I know struggles mightily because he is not a businessman... The wealthiest photographers I know (and I do mean WEALTHY) are not the best at taking pictures, but have a solid understanding of business...

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 02:08 PM

lil krause
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p.1 #7 · How many make their living as photographers?

It depends also on how you want to make money at it and what you shoot. Photojournalism is pretty dang tough, as well as selling nature prints.

But if you are good, wedding photography really brings in the cash, or corporate portraits or product shots, etc.

If you love it go for it. If you don't know, get a psych job, do photography on the weekends until you have the cashflow and then go full time.

Most people fail not due to photographic talent but due to business sense and skills.

Andrew

I agree with Andrew. I worked as a police officer for 18 years while working in my own photo business part time until I knew I was ready to make the switch.... and I have not looked back. Yeah I'm a "10%"er, but I never pursued the million dollar a year mark either. I go out and do my work, which is diversified, and when I have the time I shoot for my self. Selling prints does not bring in a lot of cash but my mortgage gets paid, I eat well, go on vacations atleast 3 weeks a year, and don't worry about bills. I don't live in a mansion but atleast I'm happy doing what I want.

So do as andrew says, work as a psych until you are ready to make the leap.
Then again if you are sure now then go for it. you'll never regret it if it is a heartfelt decision and you are willing to work at it.

Good Luck, Tom

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 02:50 PM

DragonflyDM
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p.1 #8 · How many make their living as photographers?

Yup. I agree with 95% of what is said here.

To be solely a professional photographer, you either need to belong to an organization that wants to pay you full time shooting (which I did for twenty years), OR you need to be a good entrapeneur (which I am now).

When you are young, you can afford to be poor and learn and master your craft.

Bad photographers can make great money, and great photographer sometimes end up in the gutter.

The seeming easy money of weddings is actually only easy money because most people don't spend the $$ they should to run a business. I would love to see a plumber work without insurance. I would love to see a lawyer operate without backup files, etc.

Some of the more fun jobs, like shooting for newspapers are really low paying jobs. The AP pays pennies, but more pennies than a local paper. I shot for some local papers at $100/day, but they didn't cover wear and tear on your gear and your car. They don't pay for food, or gas. At the end of the day, you get paid about $35 profit for six-seven hours work.

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 02:59 PM

1fstwrx
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p.1 #9 · How many make their living as photographers?

genghis45 wrote:
1fstwrx wrote:
So, I have been thinking a lot, and working at a fuji mini lab and printing all my own stuff, learning more photoshop, scanning slides, and pushing my love for photography further and further I have contemplated a bachelors in photography or at least an AA, and interning with some local photogs. How many of you make your living as a photographer and how many would recommend it? I know I am not ready now, but think I have the tenacity and love for it (like so many others on this forum)

I talked to a man who makes his living as a photog the other day and his words of wisdom were, "the problem is, 10% of the photogs make 90% of the money" which I know is probably true, but making a living and making 90% of the money are two totally different things.

I know I am probably insane for wanting to make a living of this, especially since I am almost done with a MA in clinical psychology, but...doing it every day and making money doing what I love,well that is what everyone is looking for right?

***********************************************************

Since 1969. However, it's far easier for a younger person to break into the business because the young have the buffer of time on their side. How old are you?

Scott

I am 23. I have a good job now, and in my opinion, and have been told by many others that I have a good business sense. I have worked for a huge company (they are blue and yellow :-) For 5 years now, and have been promoted at least once a year, so, I know how to help run a huge business, but running my own, well I think it would be similar, except with no one to boss around but myself,

.

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 05:22 PM

ajacobs2
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p.1 #10 · How many make their living as photographers?

I know how to help run a huge business, but running my own, well I think it would be similar, except with no one to boss around but myself, .

That just might be your first surprise............

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 05:57 PM

Qranc
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p.1 #11 · How many make their living as photographers?

I know how to help run a huge business, but running my own, well I think it would be similar, except with no one to boss around but myself, .

It's been said but I just want to emphasize it, running your own business isn't a peach because you are responsible to yourself. You have to be brutally honest to yourself (a lot of people are not, I am not saying you aren't) and being able to market yourself effectively is key. Marketing oneself is very different than doing it for someone else.

It has also been said and another point I would emphasize, when you rely on your "hobby" or "what you love" to earn an income for yourself it really takes the fun out of it. Stresses like deadlines, realizing that your accountant won't take away the drudgery of basic bookkeeping etc. All rolled up it has a way of sucking the pleasure out of it because no longer are you doing it for yourself to simply enjoy it. Sometimes it just ends up you pulling 16 hour days doing "work" because the job has to get done and it's no longer a hobby.

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 05:58 PM

Qranc
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p.1 #12 · How many make their living as photographers?

ajacobs2 wrote:
I know how to help run a huge business, but running my own, well I think it would be similar, except with no one to boss around but myself, .

That just might be your first surprise............

Hehe I think Al knows very well ....

At any rate the best of luck to you!

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 06:01 PM

JunSawa
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p.1 #13 · How many make their living as photographers?

I still work full time at a place that manufactures fresh pasta for restaurants and deli's, i am the manager there so thinking about that and the photography business really does fry your brain..
However i still manage, i'm 26 and do shoots on weekends and starting to do some more after work during the week (at sunset as it is almost summer here in Melbourne).
One day i would like to become a full time photographer but right now i am setting myself up to do not only car shoots but music, and perhaps food photography as i love food and the way its presented.
I've been at my work for 7 years and been doing photography for 4 years for magazines so i have learn't so much and its not just about taking photos, it's everything and i think it's good for me

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 08:42 PM

1fstwrx
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p.1 #14 · How many make their living as photographers?

well thinking about it right now does fry my brain, but when I am done with my masters, well....that's when I am thinking about it. Cause right now I do 50hrs a week, and am still going full time for my masters, so...right now it is not an option. BUT it is something I want to do, so I want to prepare for it before I am ready to jump in. Thanks for all the help guys, and the warnings. I think I read a quote that sums up what everyone has said, "As a business owner you only work half a day, so what do you want to do with the other 12 hours?" ;-)

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 08:52 PM

rffffffff
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p.1 #15 · How many make their living as photographers?

in my world a half day is 16 hours, I think... I can't remember because I have been working too long.

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 09, 2005 at 11:50 PM

Woodrow
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p.1 #16 · How many make their living as photographers?

rffffffff wrote:
in my world a half day is 16 hours, I think... I can't remember because I have been working too long.
Now, I like this reply Rob. I am in the 10% bracket. I have worked most of my adult life as a photographer and through some lean years I must add. First as a newsrag shooter and then as a portrait dude. Having studied photography my entire life I think I know a little about this and have now found out how to make it in the business.
I now own my own portrait photography company with eight employees.
Here's the crazy part, Now I shoot very little and am busy training others and doing the business thingy, and yes it takes the entire day for that.
Would I do anything else ? No way man. I love every thing about this business and I really don't mind the hours now. $$$$$ Be a business man first and you will make it as a photographer.

Carpe Diem

Woody

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 12:28 AM

rffffffff
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p.1 #17 · How many make their living as photographers?

Its nice to hear people say things like that, Woody.. Photography is one of the only professions in which I find people that really love their work... I own another company, making more than twice as much as our photography company, but I hate it... I am in the process of closing our main source of income and dedicating all of my time to photography, which will impact our financial situation greatly, but will drastically improve my life and longevity... My main goal will be to grow the photography business at first, but ultimately, as long as we can survive (I have little doubt), I would rather just get by doing what I love than make a fortune by slowly killing myself...

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 02:05 AM

1fstwrx
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p.1 #18 · How many make their living as photographers?

well, I am going to start building a portfolio, put together a nice website, get some business cards, etc. and give it a shot. Worst case scenario, it doesn't take off, I made some Biz cards and a nice website and I spend some more time shooting :-) Do you guys use templates for your sites, or do you build from scratch?

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 02:08 AM

JunSawa
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p.1 #19 · How many make their living as photographers?

1fstwrx wrote:
well, I am going to start building a portfolio, put together a nice website, get some business cards, etc. and give it a shot. Worst case scenario, it doesn't take off, I made some Biz cards and a nice website and I spend some more time shooting :-) Do you guys use templates for your sites, or do you build from scratch?

Hey dude, a few years ago before i started, i did a website also (myself), it wasnt great and it took so much longer than what a pro could do but yeh, all of what you just said is what i have done.
Give it a go, and build on your talents.
Good luck!!!!
If you have the budget you could get a web designer to do one for you...

Cheers

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 02:41 AM

1fstwrx
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p.1 #20 · How many make their living as photographers?

JunSawa wrote:
1fstwrx wrote:
well, I am going to start building a portfolio, put together a nice website, get some business cards, etc. and give it a shot. Worst case scenario, it doesn't take off, I made some Biz cards and a nice website and I spend some more time shooting :-) Do you guys use templates for your sites, or do you build from scratch?

Hey dude, a few years ago before i started, i did a website also (myself), it wasnt great and it took so much longer than what a pro could do but yeh, all of what you just said is what i have done.
Give it a go, and build on your talents.
Good luck!!!!
If you have the budget you could get a web designer to do one for you...

Cheers

or if your little brother is a web designer :-) I forgot about having someone else do it,

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 03:03 AM

JunSawa
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p.1 #21 · How many make their living as photographers?

haha nice, all you have to do is giving him good web sized images and he'lld o the rest!!!

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 03:06 AM

1fstwrx
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p.1 #22 · How many make their living as photographers?

at what point do I need an EIN, and start filing Biz taxes? Only after I have started showing a profit? Anyone have any big recommendations on getting started besides the great info that you guys have already provided?

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 04:00 AM

DragonflyDM
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p.1 #23 · How many make their living as photographers?

Well...perhaps some great locations like the library, Barnes & Noble, and Borders.

They have all these books on lots of topics, like "how to start a small business." Some of these strange new places even allow you to buy coffee and look these compressed piles of wood pulp and india ink before you spend your hard earned money.

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 04:11 AM

1fstwrx
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p.1 #24 · How many make their living as photographers?

DragonflyDM wrote:
Some of these strange new places even allow you to buy coffee and look these compressed piles of wood pulp and india ink before you spend your hard earned money.

wait, do these have LCD screens and keyboards?

I'll check into some books, thanks!

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 04:20 AM

rffffffff
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p.1 #25 · How many make their living as photographers?

the best advice is to look at the books, as stated, so you know what you are really doing, and that its right for you...

on the other hand, depending on what state you are in, I would look into a sole proprietorship (easy to setup and dirt cheap) and applying for an EIN so you dont have to use your SSN for anything business related...

from there, get setup as a sales tax vendor BEFORE you do anything (reportable) and get a bank account in the business name...

Even if you don't do much in the next few years, having your business officially open for a longer period of time will benefit you in the future, for things like business loans, credit card processing, etc... And it really doesnt cost you too much to be setup...

You might have to file $0 sales tax returns every quarter even if you do nothing, but its a small price to pay for the convienience it'll provide you later on.

Edited on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:26 AM

Nov 10, 2005 at 04:37 AM


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