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brandofamily Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #1 · Do you care.... Once you have released a set of images to a client (for unconditional use) do you care how they are used, or if a graphic artist creates a method of dispay other than you originally had thought of. Here's the situation....1st off I'm not a pro, nor do I pretend to be one.... I took some pics of a local performer at a class she was teaching. The class was being held as a masters' dance class for the dance company my daughter performs with. I gave a set of the pics to the teacher/ performer as well as the dance company's director. I told them both to feel free to use the images as they saw fit. I got an e-mail today from the teacher/performer. Attached was a very nicely composed flier for the dance studio (a non-for-profit organization) she, the performer runs. Should I just be flattered? ( I most certainly am...) She has mentioned that she might like me to do some future photography for her. I'm thinking that, since she's running her studio as a non-for-profit organization, I could do her shots as a freebie w/ the understanding that she hook me up w/ some of the other folks in her community that I could actually make some money off of. Am I dumb for thinking this way.... Here's the flier cover.... The large image of the woman on the left is mine as well as the one in the center the has a title of "Taught by..." There is also a "shadow" of an image behind the large image that is also mine. Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:08 AM

Jack OBrien Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #2 · Do you care.... Once you have released a set of images to a client (for unconditional use) do you care how they are used Your answer is in your question. If you release images for unconditional use, whether you care or not doesn't matter. Sure, you may care, but it doesn't matter Anthony, just because you're not a 'pro' doesn't mean you're supposed to give your work away. This is one of the things that makes a pro's life very difficult, giving away photography. Just because it's a non-profit doesn't mean they don't have to pay for goods or services either. I recently did a shoot for a non-profit, but I knew, and they knew they were paying for the shoot. Even during the shoot, I let them see the chimp screen, and they were already glad they didn't use the 'free' photographer. Point is, if you're any good, please don't give it away. Speaking of giving away, if this flier 'bothers' you, you need to specify what usage rights the client has. If you want to continue to do free work for this group, you should at least get a credit line for the photograpy. As for me, I would find out up front what the expected usage of the images would be, and set your price and usage rights accordingly. Then, if something is done that 'bothers' you, you have something to fall back on. Jack Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:19 AM

jasin Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #3 · Do you care.... Hey Tiger well done there is nothing like the feeling you have right now! The fact it works for you is all that should matter. You gotta get a leg in somehow! I have written this before I read Jacks post and I do agree with him also, wow who would I be to disagree with the trainman. Anyhow I hope you can see that there are two sides of the coin and in this case you turned up the one that had flattered on it! Further down the track though that may change, but if I were you I would just live with the moment and show anyone that cares! Life is all about deals and brokering. Cheers, Jasin. Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:30 AM

ColoLense Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #4 · Do you care.... Feel good that your work got used in a professional manner and your doing something good for a not-for-profit. Then, as Jacko advises, protect your rights in future shoots accordingly. Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:32 AM

Bert MacGregor Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #5 · Do you care.... It's not dumb at all. In fact very admirable. You've been a blessing...plain and simple. You've been gracious enough to provide their organization with photos that they might have not been able to otherwise obtain. You've helped them out. In todays society we often get hung up in this 'what's in if for me?' attitude when we should unselfishly be thinking, 'What can I do for someone else..no strings attached' You've done something for someone worth while. (Perhaps the only dumb thing about this is having second thoughts about what you've done? :worried: ) Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:36 AM

Jack OBrien Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #6 · Do you care.... Anthony, one more thing. You should feel flattered, and kudo's to you. I'm sorry if I sounded too harsh, didn't mean to I was trying to answer your concerns about how the work was used. I would suggest that you use this piece to promote your work, though. Anytime your work is used/published, that's a plus! Jack Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:40 AM

Jack OBrien Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #7 · Do you care.... Bert MacGregor wrote: It's not dumb at all. In fact very admirable. You've been a blessing...plain and simple. You've been gracious enough to provide their organization with photos that they might have not been able to otherwise obtain. You've helped them out. In todays society we often get hung up in this 'what's in if for me?' attitude when we should unselfishly be thinking, 'What can I do for someone else..no strings attached' You've done something for someone worth while. (Perhaps the only dumb thing about this is having second thoughts about what you've done? :worried: ) It's certainly not dumb, and it is admirable. However, after you've been asked to give away your work to the point of going broke, just how admirable do you want to be? Even in the building of Solomon's temple, all the workmen and craftsmen were paid for their work. Yes, everyone donated materials to the construction, but the Bible was very clear in pointing out that the workmen were paid. Just my PoV Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:45 AM

brandofamily Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #8 · Do you care.... Jack etal..thanks for all the input. I do not really feel bothered by the flier. I guess I was fishing for comments about the whole situation. Jack, I understand your opinion on the freebie aspect. But, there is always a but, this non-profit benefits inner city kids who are taken from the streets and given a goal and direction. I am reaay feeling good about this particular freebie, but do feel I need to be paid on the future. How do I approach this issue w/ the director of the group? I'm not used to this type of conversation. How do I determine the fair market value of what I am providing? I am thinking about continuing to work for THIS group free of charge, but as Jack said, I'm going to insist on a photographer's credit line. I will be getting an 8x10 print of this flier done for my porfolio, and I am hoping to get a copy of the actual flier. Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 02:49 AM

brandofamily Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #9 · Do you care.... Bert...I am not really having 2nd thoughts. just looking for opinions. When I originally shot the images I never thought they would even get used outside our local paper as a press release for the local dance company. I gave the pics to the teacher/performer as a gesture of kindness for her driving down to our small community to teach my daughter. (I know she got paid to teach, but no where near what a dancer of here caliber would normally get paid.) I told her to do with them as she wished. I figured they might go in an album or be forgotten. Image my surprise when this e-mail came tonight....Could I have made money from the original shoot? It probably never would have happened if I was asking for money. I was taking the pics for my fun and for my daughter and her teacher to keep for the future. Can I make money from Viola's group (that's the performer's name) in the future? Probably, if I wanted to. But...she know lots of artistic types...she has contacts...those contacts are the big fish, she's the little fish...My foot's in the door of her world....maybe she help's me, maybe she doesn't....only God knows what the future holds, "Only The Shadow knows." Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 03:04 AM

Jack OBrien Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #10 · Do you care.... brandofamily wrote: ....this non-profit benefits inner city kids who are taken from the streets and given a goal and direction. I am reaay feeling good about this particular freebie, but do feel I need to be paid on the future. How do I approach this issue w/ the director of the group? I'm not used to this type of conversation. Since you feel this way about this group, I would certainly continue to work with them and hone your craft. There are only three non-profits I work with, but only one of them that everything I do is free gratis. Understandably, that is a personal decision, but this can be very gratifying work, in that regard. Since your work was used, I have to assume they were pleased with it Just tell the client that you would like to have photographers credit with all usage. I have found that if a client is happy with your work, they will gladly give credit to the photographer. If you're uncomfortable with the conversation, you might try something to the effect of complimenting them on the promotional piece where they used your work, and that could lead into conversation about future work, and that you would like photo credits to appear with your work. Jack Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 03:06 AM

brandofamily Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · Do you care.... Jack, your opinion and input is always very valuable to me. Thank you, and all the others, for taking the time to guide and direct me as I try to take a hobby to the next level. What ever that may be. I've only been doing this for a short time (esp. w/ a DSLR, 13 months) but the folks here have always provided invaluable info and advice. Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 03:19 AM

Fundy Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #12 · Do you care.... I'd also ask her to put "Photography by XXXX" in the flier so you can get some word of mouth there, too. Many photographers do 'free' work in exchange for recognition. But, as Jack says, get ready to start charging or you'll have a whole lot of people knocking on your door. Charging money also separates the people who really want your photos from the people who heard there was some guy who would do it for free. Good luck, andrew Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 11:43 AM

papageno Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #13 · Do you care.... A couple of thoughts: 1) When you provide images to a low end purchaser, you are most likely to get results that leave you going HUH?!! Real pros know this; amateurs often can't tell the difference. When you show this work, you might add a couple of unscrewedup images so the customer can see you are doing your job well. No comment should be needed. 2) You never want a sample. Why? Because you want a number of samples so you can possibly distribute them. One sample can get ruined so easily, or lost, or left with someone who needs to show it to someone else who loses it....You get the idea. 3) Credit. You demand a credit line that reads something like Photography by Anthony Brando who can be reached at 888 234-5678 or possibly your email address...... Specify exactly how it should read, or you will find strange "improvements" to your message. Good Luck! Edited on Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM Nov 07, 2005 at 12:50 PM

brandofamily Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #14 · Do you care.... papageno, Thanks for the advice. I have request "more than one" of the final product. And I will be having the original images professionally printed as 8x10's to use as display items also. I have also "requested" that my name and e-mail address be included in the photog credits and it seems that I will not be meeting w/ any resistance. Thanks again. I just thought an update was appropriate after the amount of fine advice I was given. Nov 07, 2005 at 10:34 PM

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