CZ Lens Problems on 5D

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Archive 2005 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

PSquared63
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p.1 #1 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Along with problems using Leica lenses on the 5D, there are also problems with CZ lens(es).

1. DO NOT USE CZ 18 ON A 5D before you read this!!!!

*** Actually, some CZ18's are OK. Cinstance has one that works on 5D. His is AE and mine is an MM version. That may be the difference. Please read on. ***

The rear glass element of the CZ18 protrudes out so much that the 5D mirror will hit it, even with thicker adapters. I have tried Son's 2nd and 3rd generation adapters as well as Jorge's 2nd generation adapters. It also does not matter what the focus distance is, because the lens is an external focusing design.

2. CZ 15 MAY have a problem not clearing the mirror on the 5D. The Leica 15/3.5, which is the same optical design as the CZ15, does not clear the mirror. However, it's not the rear glass that hits the mirror, so some grinding (of either the mirror or the metal part of the lens) will solve the problem for the Leica 15/3.5. I do not have the CZ 15, so I can't test that lens.

3. CZ 16, 21 and 35PC are fine.

4. Here's something I don't understand. I have different adapters for my lenses. On my 1DII, I can achieve infinity focusing on all four CZ lenses I own on the particular adapters I have put on them. However, On the 5D, I lose infinity focus on the fisheye, the 18, and possibly the 35 PC, with the same combination of adapter and lens. How can this be if the flange-to-sensor distance has not changed? In order to confirm the infinity focus problem, I need to do some more testing when I have some light outside.

********
The following is a compatibility list that Emanuele_C has compiled. It can be found on page 3. I transfer the list here for easier reference. Hope you don't mind, Emanuele.
*********

My guess is that it's time to make something like a "compatibility list" to try to put the word "end" to this story. IMHO From what I've understood, the lenses below work for sure w/ the Canon 5D.

Carl Zeiss for Contax/Yashica - adapter: Cameraquest

WILL WORK
- F-Distagon 2.8/16 (fisheye)
- Distagon 4/18 AE version (NOT MM version)
- Distagon 2.8/21
- Distagon 2.8/25 MM
- Distagon 1.4/35
- PC-Distagon 2.8/35
- Planar 2/100
- Vario-Sonnar 3.3-4.0/28-85
- Vario-Sonnar 3.4/35-70
- Makro-Planar 2.8/100 (thick adapter only)

MAY WORK WITH MOD
- Distagon 3.5/15 (must be tested - the Leica version WORKS w/ MOD)

NOT TESTED YET - most popular CZ lenses (wide, normal, macro, tele)

WIDE ANGLES
- Distagon 2.8/28
- Distagon 2/28
- Distagon 2.8/35

STANDARD
- Planar 1.4/50
- Planar 1.7/50

MACRO
- Makro-Planar 2.8/60 (1:1 version)
- Makro-Planar 2.8/60C (1:2 version)

TELE
- Planar 1.4/85
- Planar 2.8/85
- Planar 2.8/135
- Tele-Tessar 4/300

The list above is NOT complete. I've considered only the most used CZ lenses on Canon systems (Cameraquest adapter). Feel free to expand the list, this is only a personal humble effort to try to help people like me involved in CZ lenses.

This list cannot be considered an absolute point of reference but only an indicative guide, because, as noted by other FMers here (Cinstance and MarkSaperstein), adapter's machining precision could vary from piece to piece and a lens that work or not is a matter of very little tolerances (0.3-0.5 millimeters).

Edited by PSquared63 on Oct 10, 2005 at 08:29 PM GMT

Edited by PSquared63 on Oct 10, 2005 at 09:12 PM GMT

Edited by PSquared63 on Oct 11, 2005 at 06:44 AM GMT

Edited by PSquared63 on Oct 11, 2005 at 06:47 AM GMT

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:17 AM

semorg
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p.1 #2 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

PSquared63 wrote:

4. Here's something I don't understand. I have different adapters for my lenses. On my 1DII, I can achieve infinity focusing on all four CZ lenses I own on the particular adapters I have put on them. However, On the 5D, I lose infinity focus on the fisheye, the 18, and possibly the 35 PC, with the same combination of adapter and lens. How can this be if the flange-to-sensor distance has not changed? In order to confirm the infinity focus problem, I need to do some more testing when I have some light outside.

Thanks for the report. I am surprised about the infinity focusing. Could it be the mount is farther away from the sensor than the other canon bodies?
Almost any canon lens I have focuses beyond infinity, so it may not effect canon lenses but it would effect any lens that is limited at infinity mark.

I don't want to read into it too much until I see more reports, but it seems very strange.

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:35 AM

Andy
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p.1 #3 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

sorry bout this, major bummer. i can confirm what peter's saying about the cz21, i've used mine no prob with the 5d. as it's my only cz, this issue won't affect me, but i know it's of interest to lots of folks here.

thanks for the heads up.

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:35 AM

Cinstance
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p.1 #4 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Strange, my CZ 18 and fisheye works just fine. See my post of the images taken by the fisheye on 5D:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/291296#2449676

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:35 AM

Cinstance
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p.1 #5 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Guy, I also just tested my Leica 50/1.4 (second version) without any problem at infinity focus. Am I lucky to get a different mirror?

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:44 AM

PSquared63
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p.1 #6 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Guy,

I was bummed when I found out about the Leica 15/3.5. Yeah, I got the same mirror shadow that you got with the 15/2.8 on the 1DsII. After weighing pros and cons, I just went ahead and grinded some metal away from the rear of the lens, and the lens works fine now. The part that needed grinding was right next to the rear glass, so I'm glad it turned out fine. I'm sure a mirror mod will do the same thing.

Here's a pic with the Leica 15/3.5 after the mod.

Edited by PSquared63 on Oct 10, 2005 at 07:50 PM GMT

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:46 AM

Cinstance
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p.1 #7 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

I justed tested my CZ 18 again. No problem at either infinity or closest focus. The rear end of my CZ 18 was shaved out of factory. Could it changed for newer ones? Mine is a quite old Germany AE. The adapter I used is a cameraquest one.

Edited by Cinstance on Oct 10, 2005 at 09:51 PM GMT

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:49 AM

PSquared63
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p.1 #8 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Center 100% crop

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:52 AM

PSquared63
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p.1 #9 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Left Edge 100% crop

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:52 AM

PSquared63
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p.1 #10 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Cinstance,

I have the MM version of CZ18 and its rear element really protrudes out. That may be the difference.

See pic below.

Oct 11, 2005 at 04:28 AM

Cinstance
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p.1 #11 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Here is the look of my CZ 18, look at the shaved shroud out of factory:

Oct 11, 2005 at 04:41 AM

PSquared63
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p.1 #12 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Here's a pic of the Leica 15/3.5 after the mod. The brassy area is where I ground the metal to make it clear the mirror. This would be from 10 - 2 o'clock range with the top of the lens at 12 o'clock. If you're squeamish, DON'T LOOK!

Oct 11, 2005 at 04:42 AM

Pondria
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p.1 #13 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Cinstance wrote:
Here is the look of my CZ 18, look at the shaved shroud out of factory:

Cinstance,
This brings me a question out of pure curiosity. Once mounted on a proper thickness adapter, the distance between the mount flange base surface and the film plane is fixed. From this point on, the mirror clearance should be very similar to all SLRs considering they are all FF. Why the lenses that can clear Leica mirrors can't clear Canon mirrors ?

Oct 11, 2005 at 04:48 AM

Cinstance
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p.1 #14 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Pondria wrote:
Cinstance wrote:
Here is the look of my CZ 18, look at the shaved shroud out of factory:

Cinstance,
This brings me a question out of pure curiosity. Once mounted on a proper thickness adapter, the distance between the mount flange base surface and the film plane is fixed. From this point on, the mirror clearance should be very similar to all SLRs considering they are all FF. Why the lenses that can clear Leica mirrors can't clear Canon mirrors ?

Pondria,
Your question can be answered by another question: why Guy's Leica 19 can clear his old 1DSII but not 5D? And why the mirror can be shaved without affecting the real usage. So Canon's mirror is bigger than necessary for some reason.

Edited by Cinstance on Oct 10, 2005 at 11:04 PM GMT

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:02 AM

PSquared63
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p.1 #15 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Well, here's my 18. Looks quite different. There is no shroud per se. The rear element is convex and protrudes out above the surrounding metal. You can see faint scuff marks on the glass at 12 o'clock position, and the scuff marks on the metal above the glass from contacts with the mirror.

Also, I forgot to say that the CZ fisheye DOES work on the 5D. I edited my original post.

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:02 AM

Pondria
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p.1 #16 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Cinstance wrote:
Pondria wrote:
Cinstance wrote:
Here is the look of my CZ 18, look at the shaved shroud out of factory:

Cinstance,
This brings me a question out of pure curiosity. Once mounted on a proper thickness adapter, the distance between the mount flange base surface and the film plane is fixed. From this point on, the mirror clearance should be very similar to all SLRs considering they are all FF. Why the lenses that can clear Leica mirrors can't clear Canon mirrors ?

Pondria,
Your question can be answered by another question: why Guy's Leica 19 can clear his old 1DSII but not 5D? And why the mirror can be shaved without affecting the real usage. So Canon's mirror is bigger than necessary for some reason.

Edited by Cinstance on Oct 10, 2005 at 11:04 PM GMT

Interesting.
Canon's lens hole is larger than others. And the distance to the film plane is shorter. These are why we can mount other lenses via the adpaters.
The larger lens hole may require larger mirror. Monsters like 50/1.0 and 85/1.2 may need the large mirror ? Just thinking out loud.

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:56 AM

slau
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p.1 #17 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Peter,
Thank you for the information. Hope you have better luck than Guy. Poor fellow who seems to be the target of certain FMers, no matter what he is posting.

Oct 11, 2005 at 06:09 AM

Emanuele_C
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p.1 #18 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

First of all, thanks so much for your efforts, guys!

My CZ 18 is the same "old" AE version that Cinstance has, so it seems it should work fine w/ the 5D.

My guess is that it would be great to have something like a CZ-Leica/adapter->5D compatibility list posted in sticky mode on the Canon Forum. IMHO It could help Zeiss/Leica guys/gals like us in the future.

Ciao,

Emanuele

Oct 11, 2005 at 07:50 AM

SteveF
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p.1 #19 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

4. Here's something I don't understand. I have different adapters for my lenses. On my 1DII, I can achieve infinity focusing on all four CZ lenses I own on the particular adapters I have put on them. However, On the 5D, I lose infinity focus on the fisheye, the 18, and possibly the 35 PC, with the same combination of adapter and lens. How can this be if the flange-to-sensor distance has not changed? In order to confirm the infinity focus problem, I need to do some more testing when I have some light outside.

Hello,

This is very interesting. I have a CQ adapter on an Oly 21/3.5 which seems to go past infinity focus on one 1Dsm2 and not on another.

It seems that the EOS mount should be the same, regardless of the body, but maybe there is variation here. That seems to be what you are implying and so far that has been my experience as well. But I too am waiting for the time to do another round of testing. I'll post the results on this thread in the next few days.

Oct 11, 2005 at 11:29 AM

Graham Mitchell
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p.1 #20 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

PSquared63 wrote:

4. Here's something I don't understand. I have different adapters for my lenses. On my 1DII, I can achieve infinity focusing on all four CZ lenses I own on the particular adapters I have put on them. However, On the 5D, I lose infinity focus on the fisheye, the 18, and possibly the 35 PC, with the same combination of adapter and lens. How can this be if the flange-to-sensor distance has not changed?

I can't achieve infinity focus on any of my Contax lenses with the adapters I use (Haoda). I have tested several of the adapters, and several Canon bodies (350D and 1Ds2). The maker of the adapters has assured me that they have been tested and they work and he is suspiscious about the lenses. I just bought another Contax 50mm f1.7 like new to test with.

Of course, by f8 the horizon is in focus, so it is only the combination of wide-open and infinity focus that doesn't work. I can't focus past 10 metres.

I'd love to get to the bottom of this. Is the adapter too thick or thin, if infinity focus isn't possible?

Oct 11, 2005 at 11:48 AM

Andy
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p.1 #21 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

foto-z wrote:

Of course, by f8 the horizon is in focus, so it is only the combination of wide-open and infinity focus that doesn't work. I can't focus past 10 metres.

I'd love to get to the bottom of this. Is the adapter too thick or thin, if infinity focus isn't possible?

specifically, which lenses? thanks..

Oct 11, 2005 at 01:02 PM

Cinstance
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p.1 #22 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

I have two Zeiss adapters that are exactly 1.5mm thick. These are the thickest adapters I have used. They both can achieve infinity with all of my CZ lenses. On the other hand, I once had some 1.4mm adapter that can not achieve infinity focus. Looks like machining precision is the key.

Oct 11, 2005 at 01:06 PM

Graham Mitchell
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p.1 #23 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Andy wrote:
specifically, which lenses? thanks..

Contax 135mm f2.8 T*
Contax 50mm f1.7 T*

Oct 11, 2005 at 01:18 PM

Emanuele_C
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p.1 #24 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

Cinstance wrote:
I have two Zeiss adapters that are exactly 1.5mm thick. These are the thickest adapters I have used. They both can achieve infinity with all of my CZ lenses. On the other hand, I once had some 1.4mm adapter that can not achieve infinity focus. Looks like machining precision is the key.

Hi Cinstance, thanks for the great work.

What kind of adapter have you used (cameraquest, dslrexchange...)?

My guess is that it's time to make something like a "compatibility list" to try to put the word "end" to this story. IMHO

From what I've understood, the lenses below work for sure w/ the Canon 5D.

Carl Zeiss for Contax/Yashica - adapter: Cameraquest

WILL WORK
- F-Distagon 2.8/16 (fisheye) link
- Distagon 4/18 AE version (NOT MM version) link
- Distagon 2.8/21 link
- Distagon 2.8/25 MM link
- Distagon 1.4/35 link
- PC-Distagon 2.8/35 link
- Planar 2/100 link
- Vario-Sonnar 3.3-4.0/28-85 link
- Vario-Sonnar 3.4/35-70 link
- Makro-Planar 2.8/100 link (thick adapter only)

MAY WORK WITH MOD
- Distagon 3.5/15 (must be tested - the Leica version WORKS w/ MOD) link

NOT TESTED YET - most popular CZ lenses (wide, normal, macro, tele)

WIDE ANGLES
- Distagon 2.8/28 link
- Distagon 2/28 link
- Distagon 2.8/35 link

STANDARD
- Planar 1.4/50 link
- Planar 1.7/50 link

MACRO
- Makro-Planar 2.8/60 (1:1 version) link
- Makro-Planar 2.8/60C (1:2 version) link

TELE
- Planar 1.4/85 link
- Planar 2.8/85 link
- Planar 2.8/135 link
- Tele-Tessar 4/300 link

The list above is NOT complete. I've considered only the most used CZ lenses on Canon systems (Cameraquest adapter). Feel free to expand the list, this is only a personal humble effort to try to help people like me involved in CZ lenses.

This list cannot be considered an absolute point of reference but only an indicative guide, because, as noted by other FMers here (Cinstance and MarkSaperstein), adapter's machining precision could vary from piece to piece and a lens that work or not is a matter of very little tolerances (0.3-0.5 millimeters).

Ciao,

Emanuele

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 02:53 PM GMT

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 03:02 PM GMT

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 03:05 PM GMT

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 03:10 PM GMT

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 03:17 PM GMT

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 03:19 PM GMT

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 03:25 PM GMT

Edited by Emanuele_C on Oct 11, 2005 at 03:36 PM GMT

Oct 11, 2005 at 01:32 PM

Cinstance
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p.1 #25 · CZ Lens Problems on 5D

You can add these lenses to the compatible list (with cameraquest adapter):
25/2.8 MM, 35 PC, 35/1.4, 100/2, 35-70/3.4, 28-85/3.3-4.0

Makro-planar 100/2.8 only works with my thick adapter. It is not clearance issue, but the long fin will scratch the mirror box with a thin adapter.

I have LNIB 60 S-planar that I might be able to try this evening. I also will be able to test the 28/2 soon.

Oct 11, 2005 at 01:49 PM


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