I've pretty much decided on buying the 20D with 18-55mm kit lens. I expect that in the near future, however, I will want to upgrade the lens. I figure for just $70 or so, I can get the 18-55 now, and then have some time to figure out what lens I really want while learning the camera.
So, I'm a little confused on the differences, preferences, etc between the 16-35 and 17-40. From what I've read over the last few days, it seems more people are using the 17-40. I spoke to someone in a shop who had a terrible time with the 17-40 on his 20D and got a 16-35 instead. He said the color and contrast were much better on the 16-35. Would you guys agree with this? Seems like plenty of people here are using the 17-40 on their 20D. At roughly half the price, the 17-40 would make the wallet feel better. Is that a big reason for its popularity, aside from image quality?
f/2.8 is also rather useless in low light.
You'll need f/1.8 and high ISO.
The 17-40 f/4L is a very nice lens with a even better price.
For me it was a no-brainer, because I don't need f/2.8 at wide angle. Also because you can use longer shutter speeds at wide angle (I get sharp pictures with 1/25s at 17mm)
Save a few hundred $$$ with the 17-40 and use it to buy a 70-200 f/2.8 instead of the f/4L version. f/2.8 at 200mm is far more "important" for most people than f/2.8 at 17mm.
My expensive 16 35 is not very sharp at 2.8 so I always shoot at f4 so it is as if I had an expensive 17 40.
I would get the 17 40 f4 + 50 1.4 (this one to get speed)
I went thru the same decision back 9 months ago, 17-40. Your other option is keep the kit lens, and go for the high end really wide zooms. The kit lens when stopped down 3 stops isn't bad, and combined with a 50 F1.4 actually works pretty good.
Of course more people use the 17-40, it's cheaper. But you get what you pay for.
My 16-35 is sharp all over, even at 2.8. In my opinion it's worth the extra cash, 2.8 might save the day and makes indoor photography avaliable in more situations.
Moody wrote:
f/2.8 is also rather useless in low light.
You'll need f/1.8 and high ISO.
I have both the 16-35/2.8 and the 24/1.4, and I'll use either one in low light. I'll take the zoom when I can use it and the prime if the light calls for it, but the difference between f/2.8 and f/4 is still a stop--and a stop is never "useless" in low light, no matter where it comes from. The 20D's high ISO performance especially has allowed me to get away with using the zoom's "slow" f/2.8 in places I previously couldn't before. I'd be astounded to see how clean the high ISO performance of a camera would be if it allowed me to use the 17-40/4 in those situations instead. That stop is probably the difference between flash and no flash, or zoom and no zoom.
For the original poster:
Arguing about "color and contrast" between the 16-35 and 17-40 is IMO splitting hairs--they're both excellent. The only real difference to get one over the other is if that extra stop is worth the $600 or so price difference to you. If you have any doubts, I'd go with the 17-40 first. It's a popular lens, and you'll have no problems selling it later if that's what it came down to--but odds are very good that you'll wind up keeping it.
Call me nuts, having a 10D but if I had a 20D, I'd be looking at the 10-22 for my 1.6x sensor cropped sensor body coupled with a 24-70 and a 100-400 IS.
I have the 16-35, which I purchased before the 17-40 came out. And with the low noise capability of the 20D, based upon reports, the 17-40/16-35 debate is pretty much a personal wash. Below is a Luminous Landscape shoot out review between the two lenses that you ask about.
As to the image quality of the 16-35 question. One might have to go through two or three copies before they get a decent one but when you do, you'll know what a decent WA lense is all about. Mine stays glued to the front of my sensor body, all the time
Any lens slower than f-2.8 will degrade your focus points to an extent. Check the user's manual for the 20D and it should tell you how this breaks down.
More light comes in when while focusing with an F2.8 vs an F4 lens - makes the viewfinder brighter. When the picture is taken the aperature blades move to the set aperature. As focus speeds, that lens dependent - AF lenses have various onboard electronics which contribute to the AF process. No clue how that works..., but aperature is only part of the equation.
The 16-35L balances wonderfully on the 20D and makes a very nice walk around lens. And f2.8 isn't just low light! The 16-35L is also a nice 35mm lens too and with F2.8 you can do some portrait work with a bokeh (although 35mm is nothing like 200mm bokeh at F2.8).
I notice with my 20D/ 17-40 that the off-center focusing points are not very accurate compared to when using the center point which, when used, the 17-40 renders perfectly focused, razor sharp portrait shots at 40mm.
I was wondering if my 20D's off center focusing points needed calibration. The 17-40 renders very nice, sharp, colorful, high contrast hsots throughout it's range of zoom and aperature - my most used lens.
, its kind of funny that people are so strongly opinioned for a given lens, such as Moody for the 17-40 by saying the 16-35 is "useless" for low light and then low and behold, in his equipment profile he owns a 17-40.
Thats the real problem with posting This or That questions on the these forums. Of course what someone owns just has to be better than the alternative, thats why they picked what they did. The only thing is that whats right for their uses may be wrong for your uses since everyone shoots differently.
Now back to Moody, for what he does, even f2.8 may really be useless and he really does need f1.8 or faster. He's completely accurate in that regard to his shooting needs. My needs however are different and I often shoot where f2.8 is just enough and f4 isnt. So for me, that extra stop is all I need to get my shots.
So i guess it comes down to having to make your own decison since your going to hear people for and agaisnt every choice you present.
I generally shoot landscapes, wildlife, and things like that. So basically, it would be used in landscape shots. So in that sense, it sounds like the 17-40 at the lower cost would be the better option for me since I wouldn't really need the extra stop.
I guess I probably already knew that, but I was a little confused by some opinions I'd heard about differences in image quality. Sounds to me like I may have just gotten some bogus info/opinions. I'm not at a point right now where I'd be able to tell the difference, but I didn't want to be sorry later. But since the 17-40 looks to be a well loved lens, I think I can't really go wrong with it. Now I just need to decide whether I want to drop the cash on it now, or go with the 18-55 for now, and get the 17-40 later.
I think someone here had a good point in telling me to go with the lenses I've got for now until I decide what I really want/need. If I can give in to the desire for new toys, I think that is probably a wise way for me to go.
csebasti wrote:
I spoke to someone in a shop who had a terrible time with the 17-40 on his 20D and got a 16-35 instead. He said the color and contrast were much better on the 16-35.
aznkid.com wrote:
they always recommend the more expensive stuff
Actually, it was a customer in the shop that said this. And the only reason he went with the 16-35 was because he'd already tried the 17-40, and it kept freezing up his 20D. But in the end he was glad it worked out that way. Well, other than the part about spending the extra $600.
csebasti wrote:
Actually, it was a customer in the shop that said this. And the only reason he went with the 16-35 was because he'd already tried the 17-40, and it kept freezing up his 20D. But in the end he was glad it worked out that way. Well, other than the part about spending the extra $600.
he should've exchanged it if he had a bad copy.. i bet it was an employee that wasn't working :P
, its kind of funny that people are so strongly opinioned for a given lens, such as Moody for the 17-40 by saying the 16-35 is "useless" for low light and then low and behold, in his equipment profile he owns a 17-40.