p.1 #1 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
So there's some ire going around the Sony forum because some of us (and some reviewers) saw significant shutter vibration with the A7r. Meanwhile others haven't seen this issue and, for reasons beyond my comprehension, insist not only on vehemently denying that it exists but also labeling the rest of us anti-Sony trolls and shouting down all our pleas to Sony to address it
Anyway, the fact that I will never understand any of that aside, an explanation for why some people experience the problem and others don't might be this thread on the Nikon forum about the solution to VR issues (or what turned out not to be) with the new Nikon 300/4 PF VR. The particular frequency at which the D810 vibrated after shutter shock interacted poorly with the 300/4 PF VR and caused blur. Adding a battery grip or even an L-plate to the camera changed that frequency just enough to resolve the problem.
p.1 #2 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
This issue I only know from reading about it - in now more than 6000 pphotos taken with my A7R this never occurred. I admit that I mostly shoot at the wide end up to 50 mm FL with this camera which might reduce the risk of observing the issue. But I also shot with my Canon 70-200/4 IS as well as with my 100-400 and 135 mm prime lenses (on MBIII adapter), both handheld and with tripod, and nada, I did not see the issue. Maybe I am using always a faster shutter speed when going to longer FL - I am convinced that a good percentage of the "shutter vibration" thing is user error by not accommodating the best shutter time if possible at a given FL. If I had outliers, they were slightly misfocused by not carefully enough adjusting with the MF tools.
Since the A7R camera body is low weight, yes, a shutter vibration might occur easier than on a heavier DSLR body. I simply never experienced the issue on any of my cameras, shrug.
p.1 #3 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
In many cases people got blurred images due to all manner of poor technique and then blamed it on shutter shake
36mp without an AA filter ruthlessly exposes any non optimal setup - you hear people still claiming that 2x the focal length gives you a 'safe' shutter speed to handhold with
AF on the A7r won't get you 100% accurate focus and also most tripods and heads unless they are pro grade and / or very heavy simply can't eliminate movement from external as well as internal sources.
p.1 #4 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
^^ Technique is paramount.
I don't see it likely because I shoot handheld at speeds that are safe enough for pixel level sharpness for a FF 36MP sensor. For me, that means I almost always shoot at 1/200sec. or faster. Additionally, I don't shoot any long lenses over around 85-100mm's and mostly shoot at 50mm's or wider. Finally, for studio work I'm shooting with strobe (in which case the shutter speed is determined by the flash duration ). Even if I'm shooting on a tripod with available light for testing, I still try to keep the shutter speed high just to eliminate any possible variable (if you need long times in the multiple second range or greater, any shutter vibration should contribute such a tiny portion of the exposure to be all but irrelevant). These are all things I generally do with any camera so shooting with the a7r is no different for me.
p.1 #6 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
The noted vibration for the A7r cameras are related to tripod mounted images particularly with lenses longer than 100mm in the 1/125 to about 1/15 second range. Certain lens appear to be more prone to the issue. I have noted it while using my tripod mounted A7r with my Leica R 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt (with the Novoflex rotating collar and Novoflex adapter) as well as with my Leica R 280mm f4 Apo Telyt lens. I am not sure if I have noted the issue with my Leica R 80-200mm f4 Vario Elmar lens since I do not use it often. I have not noted it with my Leica R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro_Elmarit lens with the same Novoflex Adapter and the Novoflex Rotating collar. My tripod head for these images consisted of my Markins M20 head with Krk 2 1/2" QR clamp and the tripod is the RRS TVC-24L tripod along with the RRS TA-2-LC leveling base with clamp. The plate on my Leica R 280mm f4 Apo Telyt lens is the RRS 97L plate. I have come up with some methods that probably yield images with no problem in the mentioned shutter speeds with the lenses mentioned as well as when using the Leica R 280mm f4 Apo Telyt lens along with either the Leica R 1.4X or the Leica R 2X Apo Extenders. I probably have been able to get a 75% success rate now in those shutter ranges.
p.1 #8 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
darbo wrote:
Does this happen on account of no EFCS in the a7R?
Yes, but for a reason different than what is generally understood. It's not the first shutter curtain opening that causes the vibration but actually vibration from the second shutter curtain closing before the start of an exposure. This is unique to MILCs because they operate in full-time Live View, so to reset the sensor they have to first close the shutter so that no light reaches the sensor as it's being reset. For DSLRs operating outside Live View the default state of the shutter is already closed at the start of an exposure. The timing is such that the residual vibration of the second shutter closing will resonate during the exposure since it occurs well before the start of an exposure, whereas the vibrations from the first curtain usually resonate as the exposure is ending and so don't affect acuity nearly as much.
p.1 #9 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
The 7 series is small and light; the lack of mass to dampen the shutter vibrations make them seem more violent than they are. My 900 is a heavy camera and between the mirror and shutter sounds like a guillotine but shutter shock is almost non-existent (though adding more mass with a grip can be beneficial). If you want the best sounding shutter, try an slt, no flapping mirror and EFCS.
p.1 #10 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
Not trying to argue, but wouldn't this also occur with a-mount bodies then? Or does their different shutter design not affect it? Or does IBIS (on the sensor) counteract it?
snapsy wrote:
Yes, but for a reason different than what is generally understood. It's not the first shutter curtain opening that causes the vibration but actually vibration from the second shutter curtain closing before the start of an exposure. This is unique to MILCs because they operate in full-time Live View, so to reset the sensor they have to first close the shutter so that no light reaches the sensor as it's being reset. For DSLRs operating outside Live View the default state of the shutter is already closed at the start of an exposure. The timing is such that the residual vibration of the second shutter closing will resonate during the exposure since it occurs well before the start of an exposure, whereas the vibrations from the first curtain usually resonate as the exposure is ending and so don't affect acuity nearly as much....Show more →
p.1 #11 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
TheEmrys wrote:
Not trying to argue, but wouldn't this also occur with a-mount bodies then? Or does their different shutter design not affect it? Or does IBIS (on the sensor) counteract it?
Larger bodies that can dampen some of the vibration, plus most have an EFCS.
p.1 #12 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
I don't see it often, but I have seen it. The worst example was when I forgot to tighten the panning base bolt in the middle of a panorama -- and the effect of that was significantly more obvious than when I made the same mistake with an a900. I'm pretty sure that was somewhere around 1/15th of a second, too, right in the supposed worst range.
That said, I think a lot of the issue came when people were using adapted lenses with the camera/lens combination mounted to a tripod via a lens collar. I think having the vibrating mass cantilevered out past the point of connection is worse than mounting the combination via an L-plate on the body.
I've had very few problems shooting an a7r on an L-bracket, mounting the camera body to an Acratech Ultimate Ballhead, using a Sony 70-300G. I wouldn't say that I have flawless technique, either...
(I have no idea why some people get into metaphorical shouting matches online, though... )
p.1 #14 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
I see it a bit, the 1/focal length never works for me on the a7r. Even with a 20mm lens I find 1/60 provides some blurry shots. I'd prefer EFCS, as I had similar issues handholding with my NEX 5
p.1 #16 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
Here's a quick example I put together using an A7R mounted on a heavy duty tripod using a Canon 135L and a 2 second delay. On the left is an image taken roughly in the middle of the affected shutter speed range while the image on the right is outside the affected range. There's a pretty significant difference between the two. Click here for a full res version.
p.1 #17 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
darbo wrote:
Does this happen on account of no EFCS in the a7R?
snapsy wrote:
Yes, but for a reason different than what is generally understood. It's not the first shutter curtain opening that causes the vibration but actually vibration from the second shutter curtain closing before the start of an exposure. This is unique to MILCs because they operate in full-time Live View, so to reset the sensor they have to first close the shutter so that no light reaches the sensor as it's being reset. For DSLRs operating outside Live View the default state of the shutter is already closed at the start of an exposure. The timing is such that the residual vibration of the second shutter closing will resonate during the exposure since it occurs well before the start of an exposure, whereas the vibrations from the first curtain usually resonate as the exposure is ending and so don't affect acuity nearly as much. ...Show more →
Is there no delay mode option for tripod use? Maybe 1-2 seconds could help vibration die down before the shutter is reopened.
p.1 #18 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
whumber wrote:
Here's a quick example I put together using an A7R mounted on a heavy duty tripod using a Canon 135L and a 2 second delay. On the left is an image taken roughly in the middle of the affected shutter speed range while the image on the right is outside the affected range. There's a pretty significant difference between the two.
Yup, it was definitely there. Did you use a lens collar to mount the lens on the tripod, by any chance? Or how about a remote release or did you use a 2-sec delay?
p.1 #19 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
AGeoJO wrote:
Yup, it was definitely there. Did you use a lens collar to mount the lens on the tripod, by any chance? Or how about a remote release or did you use a 2-sec delay?
He said he used a 2-sec delay... Looks like pretty clear evidence of shutter shock to me. Can't really fault shooting methods here: tripod +
2 second delay. I need to give this a try with my 135 (Zeiss).
p.1 #20 · Why some don't see A7r shutter vibration (?)
The timer delay will help any human-induced vibration from triggering the shutter button but it wont reduce shutter shock since the delay occurs before the shutter is cycled at the start of the exposure rather than a delay inserted between the closing of the second curtain and the opening of the first. Some asked Sony for a MFT-like antishock delay that would be inserted between the two curtain cycles but it hasn't been implemented.
). Even if I'm shooting on a tripod with available light for testing, I still try to keep the shutter speed high just to eliminate any possible variable (if you need long times in the multiple second range or greater, any shutter vibration should contribute such a tiny portion of the exposure to be all but irrelevant). These are all things I generally do with any camera so shooting with the a7r is no different for me.
)
Looks like pretty clear evidence of shutter shock to me. Can't really fault shooting methods here: tripod +